Harm disbelieving? Look at examples of believers and disbelievers. Mafia believes. Pope (Catholic) doesn't excommunicate Mafia for brutality and greed, because then it would have no control whatsoever. So, Catholics allow the Mafia to continue, but demands that with each murder and with each blackmailing and with each extortion, they must count beads. They must have counted a mountain of beads by now, but they continue to murder with the belief that God forgives all sins. God will continue to forgive as they steal, as they murder, as they rape (and it is that forgiveness that keeps them going). Jesus said that whomsoever believes in me (Jesus) shall have everlasting life. But he never said anything about having that life in heaven. The notion that that life would be in heaven was by an apostle (a human). Do we trust in notions of humans? What if Jesus meant eternal life in hell? Where was Jesus and what was he doing when he "might have" condemned man to eternal fires of hell? He was on the cross, with a hole in his abdomen from a spear, with a crown of thorns, with nails affixing him to the cross, and some say he had been sodomized by men of the Roman army. In such a situation, could you imagine a human cursing mankind and condemning mankind to eternal damnation in hell? But, the thought is that belief that Christ existed grants entry to heaven, right? If so, every un-atoned sinner will go to heaven if they believe that a man named Jesus once existed. Murderers, child rapists (including priests), arsonists, extortionists, blackmailers, etc., will go to heaven, and sit beside you when it is your time to go, and they will be your steady roommates in heaven for all eternity, and they never had to say they were sorry, or that they would never do that again. Will you be raped when you get to heaven? Will you spend eternity in heaven with evil souls? If so, maybe it isn't heaven at all? Certainly it won't seem like heaven, and certainly it would be like hell (just not as hot, necessarily). Father Junipero Serra built missions in California, for which the Catholic church sainted him. Many articles, from reliable sources, say that Father Serra enslaved Native Americans to build his missions, and beat some to death. Hitler was Christian, at least until the church tried to restrict his power. During Hitler's Nazi reign, the pope supported Hitler's efforts and helped turn in Jews. The myth is that only theists have morals, and atheists have no morals. Yet most of the wars were fought by seemingly devout Christians. Based on hard facts, we must conclude that believing causes harm and disbelieving doesn't.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What harm is there in NOT believing God ?
- Thread starter chinu
- Start date
Harm disbelieving? Look at examples of believers and disbelievers. Mafia believes. Pope (Catholic) doesn't excommunicate Mafia for brutality and greed, because then it would have no control whatsoever. So, Catholics allow the Mafia to continue, but demands that with each murder and with each blackmailing and with each extortion, they must count beads. They must have counted a mountain of beads by now, but they continue to murder with the belief that God forgives all sins. God will continue to forgive as they steal, as they murder, as they rape (and it is that forgiveness that keeps them going). Jesus said that whomsoever believes in me (Jesus) shall have everlasting life. But he never said anything about having that life in heaven. The notion that that life would be in heaven was by an apostle (a human). Do we trust in notions of humans? What if Jesus meant eternal life in hell? Where was Jesus and what was he doing when he "might have" condemned man to eternal fires of hell? He was on the cross, with a hole in his abdomen from a spear, with a crown of thorns, with nails affixing him to the cross, and some say he had been sodomized by men of the Roman army. In such a situation, could you imagine a human cursing mankind and condemning mankind to eternal damnation in hell? But, the thought is that belief that Christ existed grants entry to heaven, right? If so, every un-atoned sinner will go to heaven if they believe that a man named Jesus once existed. Murderers, child rapists (including priests), arsonists, extortionists, blackmailers, etc., will go to heaven, and sit beside you when it is your time to go, and they will be your steady roommates in heaven for all eternity, and they never had to say they were sorry, or that they would never do that again. Will you be raped when you get to heaven? Will you spend eternity in heaven with evil souls? If so, maybe it isn't heaven at all? Certainly it won't seem like heaven, and certainly it would be like hell (just not as hot, necessarily). Father Junipero Serra built missions in California, for which the Catholic church sainted him. Many articles, from reliable sources, say that Father Serra enslaved Native Americans to build his missions, and beat some to death. Hitler was Christian, at least until the church tried to restrict his power. During Hitler's Nazi reign, the pope supported Hitler's efforts and helped turn in Jews. The myth is that only theists have morals, and atheists have no morals. Yet most of the wars were fought by seemingly devout Christians. Based on hard facts, we must conclude that believing causes harm and disbelieving doesn't.
Harm disbelieving? Look at examples of believers and disbelievers. Mafia believes. Pope (Catholic) doesn't excommunicate Mafia for brutality and greed, because then it would have no control whatsoever. So, Catholics allow the Mafia to continue, but demands that with each murder and with each blackmailing and with each extortion, they must count beads. They must have counted a mountain of beads by now, but they continue to murder with the belief that God forgives all sins. God will continue to forgive as they steal, as they murder, as they rape (and it is that forgiveness that keeps them going). Jesus said that whomsoever believes in me (Jesus) shall have everlasting life. But he never said anything about having that life in heaven. The notion that that life would be in heaven was by an apostle (a human). Do we trust in notions of humans? What if Jesus meant eternal life in hell? Where was Jesus and what was he doing when he "might have" condemned man to eternal fires of hell? He was on the cross, with a hole in his abdomen from a spear, with a crown of thorns, with nails affixing him to the cross, and some say he had been sodomized by men of the Roman army. In such a situation, could you imagine a human cursing mankind and condemning mankind to eternal damnation in hell? But, the thought is that belief that Christ existed grants entry to heaven, right? If so, every un-atoned sinner will go to heaven if they believe that a man named Jesus once existed. Murderers, child rapists (including priests), arsonists, extortionists, blackmailers, etc., will go to heaven, and sit beside you when it is your time to go, and they will be your steady roommates in heaven for all eternity, and they never had to say they were sorry, or that they would never do that again. Will you be raped when you get to heaven? Will you spend eternity in heaven with evil souls? If so, maybe it isn't heaven at all? Certainly it won't seem like heaven, and certainly it would be like hell (just not as hot, necessarily). Father Junipero Serra built missions in California, for which the Catholic church sainted him. Many articles, from reliable sources, say that Father Serra enslaved Native Americans to build his missions, and beat some to death. Hitler was Christian, at least until the church tried to restrict his power. During Hitler's Nazi reign, the pope supported Hitler's efforts and helped turn in Jews. The myth is that only theists have morals, and atheists have no morals. Yet most of the wars were fought by seemingly devout Christians. Based on hard facts, we must conclude that believing causes harm and disbelieving doesn't.
Harm disbelieving? Look at examples of believers and disbelievers. Mafia believes. Pope (Catholic) doesn't excommunicate Mafia for brutality and greed, because then it would have no control whatsoever. So, Catholics allow the Mafia to continue, but demands that with each murder and with each blackmailing and with each extortion, they must count beads. They must have counted a mountain of beads by now, but they continue to murder with the belief that God forgives all sins. God will continue to forgive as they steal, as they murder, as they rape (and it is that forgiveness that keeps them going). Jesus said that whomsoever believes in me (Jesus) shall have everlasting life. But he never said anything about having that life in heaven. The notion that that life would be in heaven was by an apostle (a human). Do we trust in notions of humans? What if Jesus meant eternal life in hell? Where was Jesus and what was he doing when he "might have" condemned man to eternal fires of hell? He was on the cross, with a hole in his abdomen from a spear, with a crown of thorns, with nails affixing him to the cross, and some say he had been sodomized by men of the Roman army. In such a situation, could you imagine a human cursing mankind and condemning mankind to eternal damnation in hell? But, the thought is that belief that Christ existed grants entry to heaven, right? If so, every un-atoned sinner will go to heaven if they believe that a man named Jesus once existed. Murderers, child rapists (including priests), arsonists, extortionists, blackmailers, etc., will go to heaven, and sit beside you when it is your time to go, and they will be your steady roommates in heaven for all eternity, and they never had to say they were sorry, or that they would never do that again. Will you be raped when you get to heaven? Will you spend eternity in heaven with evil souls? If so, maybe it isn't heaven at all? Certainly it won't seem like heaven, and certainly it would be like hell (just not as hot, necessarily). Father Junipero Serra built missions in California, for which the Catholic church sainted him. Many articles, from reliable sources, say that Father Serra enslaved Native Americans to build his missions, and beat some to death. Hitler was Christian, at least until the church tried to restrict his power. During Hitler's Nazi reign, the pope supported Hitler's efforts and helped turn in Jews. The myth is that only theists have morals, and atheists have no morals. Yet most of the wars were fought by seemingly devout Christians. Based on hard facts, we must conclude that believing causes harm and disbelieving doesn't.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That all depends upon the facts that you look at.
You can make anything look the way you want it to look by presenting only the facts that support your side.
There are facts that show that believing does a lot of good, what facts show that disbelieving does any good?
Harm disbelieving? Look at examples of believers and disbelievers. Mafia believes. Pope (Catholic) doesn't excommunicate Mafia for brutality and greed, because then it would have no control whatsoever. So, Catholics allow the Mafia to continue, but demands that with each murder and with each blackmailing and with each extortion, they must count beads. They must have counted a mountain of beads by now, but they continue to murder with the belief that God forgives all sins. God will continue to forgive as they steal, as they murder, as they rape (and it is that forgiveness that keeps them going). Jesus said that whomsoever believes in me (Jesus) shall have everlasting life. But he never said anything about having that life in heaven. The notion that that life would be in heaven was by an apostle (a human). Do we trust in notions of humans? What if Jesus meant eternal life in hell? Where was Jesus and what was he doing when he "might have" condemned man to eternal fires of hell? He was on the cross, with a hole in his abdomen from a spear, with a crown of thorns, with nails affixing him to the cross, and some say he had been sodomized by men of the Roman army. In such a situation, could you imagine a human cursing mankind and condemning mankind to eternal damnation in hell? But, the thought is that belief that Christ existed grants entry to heaven, right? If so, every un-atoned sinner will go to heaven if they believe that a man named Jesus once existed. Murderers, child rapists (including priests), arsonists, extortionists, blackmailers, etc., will go to heaven, and sit beside you when it is your time to go, and they will be your steady roommates in heaven for all eternity, and they never had to say they were sorry, or that they would never do that again. Will you be raped when you get to heaven? Will you spend eternity in heaven with evil souls? If so, maybe it isn't heaven at all? Certainly it won't seem like heaven, and certainly it would be like hell (just not as hot, necessarily). Father Junipero Serra built missions in California, for which the Catholic church sainted him. Many articles, from reliable sources, say that Father Serra enslaved Native Americans to build his missions, and beat some to death. Hitler was Christian, at least until the church tried to restrict his power. During Hitler's Nazi reign, the pope supported Hitler's efforts and helped turn in Jews. The myth is that only theists have morals, and atheists have no morals. Yet most of the wars were fought by seemingly devout Christians. Based on hard facts, we must conclude that believing causes harm and disbelieving doesn't.
Harm disbelieving? Look at examples of believers and disbelievers. Mafia believes. Pope (Catholic) doesn't excommunicate Mafia for brutality and greed, because then it would have no control whatsoever. So, Catholics allow the Mafia to continue, but demands that with each murder and with each blackmailing and with each extortion, they must count beads. They must have counted a mountain of beads by now, but they continue to murder with the belief that God forgives all sins. God will continue to forgive as they steal, as they murder, as they rape (and it is that forgiveness that keeps them going). Jesus said that whomsoever believes in me (Jesus) shall have everlasting life. But he never said anything about having that life in heaven. The notion that that life would be in heaven was by an apostle (a human). Do we trust in notions of humans? What if Jesus meant eternal life in hell? Where was Jesus and what was he doing when he "might have" condemned man to eternal fires of hell? He was on the cross, with a hole in his abdomen from a spear, with a crown of thorns, with nails affixing him to the cross, and some say he had been sodomized by men of the Roman army. In such a situation, could you imagine a human cursing mankind and condemning mankind to eternal damnation in hell? But, the thought is that belief that Christ existed grants entry to heaven, right? If so, every un-atoned sinner will go to heaven if they believe that a man named Jesus once existed. Murderers, child rapists (including priests), arsonists, extortionists, blackmailers, etc., will go to heaven, and sit beside you when it is your time to go, and they will be your steady roommates in heaven for all eternity, and they never had to say they were sorry, or that they would never do that again. Will you be raped when you get to heaven? Will you spend eternity in heaven with evil souls? If so, maybe it isn't heaven at all? Certainly it won't seem like heaven, and certainly it would be like hell (just not as hot, necessarily). Father Junipero Serra built missions in California, for which the Catholic church sainted him. Many articles, from reliable sources, say that Father Serra enslaved Native Americans to build his missions, and beat some to death. Hitler was Christian, at least until the church tried to restrict his power. During Hitler's Nazi reign, the pope supported Hitler's efforts and helped turn in Jews. The myth is that only theists have morals, and atheists have no morals. Yet most of the wars were fought by seemingly devout Christians. Based on hard facts, we must conclude that believing causes harm and disbelieving doesn't.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Is there an echo in here? 
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Neither was my comment.
That what was your answer about? And what do you think my comment is about?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Can you explain in practical terms how that is a bad thing. Real life examples?
Abstract statements aren't exactly helpful.
That's yet another statement / assertion.
Are you saying that it's impossible for people to do good, or find motivation to do good, without god beliefs?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Beliefs inform actions.
So logically disbelieving does not inform actions.
Therefor disbelieving does neither harm nore good.
It's the positive beliefs that one holds that influences actions and decisions.
Things one does not believe, have no influence either way.
So, in that sense, disbelieving doesn't do any god. Neither does it do any harm. Disbeliefs are irrelevant.
I do quite some volunteer work in charities left and right. I do such things as a result of positive beliefs in terms of humanism, because I believe in lifting up society through helping others etc.
These actions are not inspired or motivated by a "disbelief" in anything.
The entire material world. Is an example of self over selfless actions.
No I am not saying it is impossible for people that do not beleive in God to do good.
I see the good in them is from God, even if they do not wish to except that is so. When they choose the virtues, that to me is the selfless aspect of God being shown.
Sometimes they are closer to God than one who claims a Faith.
Regards Tony
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
That doesn't make any sense. I asked for a practical real-life example.
And your reply is "the entire material world". How is that an answer to the question?
Perhaps you should try and explain it a bit clearer using more then just a one-liner?
I can only repeat my question: can you give a real-life example of this?
Now you're just running around in circles. This is a bit like saying "heads I win, tails you lose".
Pretty pointless.
I have said more than enough. As you said, these discussions are pointless.
Regards Tony
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Discussion with someone who insists on only speaking in vague and abstract terms, certainly is pointless.
O, well. Nothing more to see here, I guess.
firedragon
Veteran Member
What do you think about your comment? Can you explain?
What argument are you looking for?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I was just replying to your rather vague comment. Remember?
I'm assuming you meant something along the lines of "you can't know anything for certain if you don't believe in god".
I merely asked for clarification. How does that situation change when one believes in god?
Additionally, it's not at all clear to me where the "harm" is in what you stated.
firedragon
Veteran Member
You misunderstood it completely. It was a response to the OP. So read in the context of the question I answered and you may understand the statement.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
You quoted the full OP. It consisted of just one line.
OP question: "provide example of any harm in NOT believing god"
Your answer: "can make assumptions only. nothing concrete."
I have no idea how else to understand your answer then in the way I said that I understood it. And that way is that one requires belief in god in order to know things for certain. How else could I understand it?
Instead of just saying that I "misunderstood completely", why don't you try clarifying then what you actually meant?
I'm genuinely curious and I have no clue why you feel the need to be so mysterious about it.
firedragon
Veteran Member
My question I asked because you stated that the Buddha taught that rebirth will occur until you attain nirvana. I have asked anyone who claimed this but no one seems to know where in the central scripture, the Tripitaka it is mentioned so.
Nevertheless, its fine. Cheers.