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Featured What happens after Death?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Syndrox Rekt, Nov 3, 2018.

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  1. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu pagan and a strong atheist.
    #81 Aupmanyav, Nov 4, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    That is not true. We know what happens step by step when we travel towards the end of life. We have impressions of people who were nearly dead or actually dead before they were revived again, and we have examined the dead bodies and skeletons from past. We do know what happens after death - bar the superstition about soul and God, judgment, heaven and hell. The superstitious cannot be helped, they are guided by fear, ego or greed.
     
    #82 Aupmanyav, Nov 4, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Death as in the body decomposing, the brain has no oxygen, the heart is not pumping, the body blue, no consciousness.

    Anyone given the right treatment have the probability to come out of medical "death." The body hasn't shut down so much that one is waking the dead. It's still aware. Altered state of consciousness not death.

    Someone who knows the afterlife would actually need to die (reminds me of night of the living dead) and resurrected to explain with their once physical decomposing brain what they saw and heard.

    There is no life after death. We get glimpse of how people react in their altered state of awareness before they die. We have a sense of information because the body is still functioning during clinical death.

    Life after life would probably be more appropriate if there is a spirit that's not attached to the body. But not life after death.
     
    #83 Unveiled Artist, Nov 4, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    No, Baha’u’llah did not send Messengers. Only God can send Messengers.
    1. Baha’u’llah mentions in Aqdas, page 43, “There is no God but I the Honored, the Wise.”
    2. He again writes in Aqdas, page 144 “Accept whatever is commanded by Baha (himself) the Lord of Eternity.”
    3. In Aqdas, page 8, Baha’u’llah says, “We have sent down all the Messengers and we have revealed all the Books.”
    https://www.quora.com/Where-in-the-writings-of-Bahaullah-does-he-claim-to-be-aprophet

    I cannot find any of these quotations in the Aqdas. Therefore I have to assume that Baha’u’llah has been misquoted. Was the person who posted this website hoping that people would not check to verify? That is the first thing I did.

    On that website it says: “Baha’u’llah never ever explicitly claimed himself to be a ‘Prophet’. He claimed to be a ‘Manifestation of God’, God, Lord of Lords, Sender of Prophets.”

    Baha’u’llah claimed to be a Manifestation of God but He never claimed to be God, Lord of Lords or the Sender of Prophets. Baha’u’llah explained how God sends the Prophets.

    “Every Prophet Whom the Almighty and Peerless Creator hath purposed to send to the peoples of the earth hath been entrusted with a Message, and charged to act in a manner that would best meet the requirements of the age in which He appeared. God’s purpose in sending His Prophets unto men is twofold. The first is to liberate the children of men from the darkness of ignorance, and guide them to the light of true understanding. The second is to ensure the peace and tranquillity of mankind, and provide all the means by which they can be established.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp, 79-80

    What are these other books that were cited on that website? The quotes are lies. Baha’u’llah never claimed to be God. He disclaimed being God.

    “Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors. I and My kindred are at your mercy. Do ye as ye please, and be not of them that hesitate, that I might return to God My Lord, and reach the place where I can no longer behold your faces. This, indeed, is My dearest wish, My most ardent desire. Of My state God is, verily, sufficiently informed, observant.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228

    “Who can ever believe that this Servant of God hath at any time cherished in His heart a desire for any earthly honor or benefit? The Cause associated with His Name is far above the transitory things of this world. Behold Him, an exile, a victim of tyranny, in this Most Great Prison. His enemies have assailed Him on every side, and will continue to do so till the end of His life. Whatever, therefore, He saith unto you is wholly for the sake of God, that haply the peoples of the earth may cleanse their hearts from the stain of evil desire, may rend its veil asunder, and attain unto the knowledge of the one true God—the most exalted station to which any man can aspire.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 85

    “Know ye that I am afraid of none except God. In none but Him have I placed My trust; to none will I cleave but Him, and wish for naught except the thing He hath wished for Me. This, indeed, is My heart’s desire, did ye but know it. I have offered up My soul and My body as a sacrifice for God, the Lord of all worlds. Whoso hath known God shall know none but Him, and he that feareth God shall be afraid of no one except Him, though the powers of the whole earth rise up and be arrayed against him. I speak naught except at His bidding, and follow not, through the power of God and His might, except His truth. He, verily, shall recompense the truthful.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 126

    “Incline your ears to the counsels which this Servant giveth you for the sake of God. He, verily, asketh no recompense from you and is resigned to what God hath ordained for Him, and is entirely submissive to God’s Will.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 127

    Say: God is My witness! I have wished nothing whatever for Myself. What I have wished is the victory of God and the triumph of His Cause. He is Himself a sufficient witness between you and Me. Were ye to cleanse your eyes, ye would readily perceive how My deeds testify to the truth of My words, how My words are a guide to My deeds.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 256-257

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

    “Hearken ye, O Rulers of America and the Presidents of the Republics therein, unto that which the Dove is warbling on the Branch of Eternity: “There is none other God but Me, the Ever-Abiding, the Forgiving, the All-Bountiful.” Adorn ye the temple of dominion with the ornament of justice and of the fear of God, and its head with the crown of the remembrance of your Lord, the Creator of the heavens. Thus counselleth you He Who is the Dayspring of Names, as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. The Promised One hath appeared in this glorified Station, whereat all beings, both seen and unseen, have rejoiced. Take ye advantage of the Day of God. Verily, to meet Him is better for you than all that whereon the sun shineth, could ye but know it. O concourse of rulers! Give ear unto that which hath been raised from the Dayspring of Grandeur: “Verily, there is none other God but Me, the Lord of Utterance, the All-Knowing.” Bind ye the broken with the hands of justice, and crush the oppressor who flourisheth with the rod of the commandments of your Lord, the Ordainer, the All-Wise.” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 52

    Baha’u’llah wrote: “Adorn ye the temple of dominion with the ornament of justice and of the fear of God, and its head with the crown of the remembrance of your Lord, the Creator of the heavens.”

    Clearly, in the Aqdas, Baha’u’llah differentiated Himself from God, referring to God as your Lord, the Creator of the heavens.

    God, speaking through Baha’u’llah said:

    “There is none other God but Me, the Ever-Abiding, the Forgiving, the All-Bountiful.”

    “Verily, there is none other God but Me, the Lord of Utterance, the All-Knowing.”

    Baha’u’llah was not speaking about Himself. God was speaking through Baha’u’llah. Baha’u’llah sometimes spoke as the Voice of God but at other times He spoke as a Messenger of God, at other times as a humble Servant of God.

    It is amazing what people try to do to distort what Baha’u’llah wrote and who He claimed to be. Thank God I have the Original Writings of Baha’u’llah to refute these calumnies.
     
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    :) I am an unbeliever, so no soul/spirit, no God, for me.
     
  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu pagan and a strong atheist.
    "Bahá'u'lláh gave the Title "King of the Messengers" (sultán al-rusul) to the Báb, and the "Sender of the Messengers" (mursil al-rusul) to himself."
    Bahá'í Faith and Islam

    You are not familiar with the words of Bahá'u'lláh, you are an unbaked Bahai. That is why I said go back to your books, or otherwise ask the "Universal House of Justice" to change their information pages. It happens, atheists generally know more about Bible and Quran that Christians and Muslims. Your case also is similar. Of course, I being an atheist, do not believe in any rant by a prophet, son, messenger, manifestation or mahdi.
     
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  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    That is just an article written by an anonymous source. It is not from any of the authoritative Baha'i Writings.
    I know what Baha'u'llah wrote. Unless you can quote the Writings of Baha'u'llah, you are quoting bunk.
    The UHJ cannot change the "original writings" of Baha'u'llah.
     
  8. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Here is my view of what happens after death:
     
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  9. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Just clarifying. So bacteria have souls, by
    your figuring.

    Is the soul also necessary, to make something
    alive?
     
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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  11. OrtaYol

    OrtaYol Member

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    I have no idea...

    Do plants feel pain? :)
     
  12. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Shouldda said that in the first place.
     
  13. chinu

    chinu Businessman.

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    means "re-union" with from where we all started the journey of life in the beginning.
    Body remains the house of Soul since birth.

    When the validity of House gets expire, No matter..

    how much you love that house,
    or how good was your neighborhood and you love it,
    or how many valuable does it have.

    Soul have to leave that House upon expiry (As per law)
    THAT WHAT IS DEATH IS

    Now, after leaving that house, Soul becomes homeless for some time / or until she's allotted a new residence.

    New residence is allotted according to his/her habits, ethics and values.

    Now: "Happy birth day" once again ! :)
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "The UHJ cannot change the "original writings" of Baha'u'llah"
    I agree with one that UHJ (or Abdul Baha or Shoghí Effendí) cannot change the original writings of Bahaullah.

    Courtesy our friend #23 InvestigateTruth, May 3, 2017 that:

    Bahaullah proclaimed that in Reality, He was the Author of All previous Religions, and that He had sent all prophets of the Past, thus, He is the One who can explain His own Books that He had previously revealed. I quote Bahaullah:

    " ...Hearken unto the Call of Husayn[2] Who hath been incarcerated in the Prison Fortress of ’Akká by reason of that which the hands of the heedless have wrought. If one were to question them,[3]“by what reason have ye imprisoned Him?”, they would reply: “Verily, He hath come with a new Shariah and this new Shariah doth not accord with the Law under which we have been. To this matter testifieth our Book which is called the Qur’án, a Book that is from God,[4] the Lord of all mankind. See that which the All-Merciful hath revealed therein: ‘Verily He[5] is the Messenger of God, and the Seal of the Prophets.’”[6]

    To this We reply: “Indeed thou speaketh the truth. We do testify that through Him,[7]Messengership[8] and Prophethood[9] have both been sealed and any one claiming after Him this most exalted station is in manifest error.[10] Nevertheless, O Questioner! Hearken unto My voice which sayeth: “Open thine eyes that thou mayest behold the Most Great Beauty,[11] through Whom speaketh the Lord of divine decree. By God! Through Him the ‘Hour’[12] hath appeared, and the ‘Resurrection’[13] hath come to pass, and the ‘Moon’[14]hath been cleft asunder and thou wouldst behold all in a ‘continuing Regeneration’ if thou be of them that possess insight.

    “Verily, through His Advent hath come to be fulfilled the Advent about which glad tidings have been given by the Messengers of God from all eternity and there hath come to pass about which God hath revealed in the Qur’án: ‘On that Day they shall all rise before the Lord of mankind.’[15]Truly the Cycle of Prophethood hath been rolled up and He Who hath sent down the Prophets hath come, arrayed with a manifest and perspicuous sovereignty. ...." Unquote
    Tablet to Hasan-i-Sháhábadí
    That would make Bahaullah "mursil al-rusul" or "Sender of the Messengers". Right, please?

    Though I don't agree with the understanding of Bahaullah, please.

    Regards
     
    #94 paarsurrey, Apr 12, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
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  15. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It would be a mistake to conflate the interpretation of one Baha’i and elevate it to the station of “the understanding of Baha’u’llah”

    Baha’u’llah teaches that the Messengers are intermediary's between God and man and that in that sense all of them are God to man. In my view if one has adequately understood Baha’u’llah’s view they would see all the Messengers as sender of the Messengers before them.

    Baha’u’llah said were any of the Messengers to claim to be God He speaks truly.

    That being said as a liberal I don’t believe in infallible intermediaries, but I reckon I can see the mistake in calling one Baha’is view Baha’u’llah’s view while ignoring the views of all other Baha’is
     
    #96 danieldemol, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I quote from Bahaullah:
    “Verily, through His Advent hath come to be fulfilled the Advent about which glad tidings have been given by the Messengers of God from all eternity and there hath come to pass about which God hath revealed in the Qur’án: ‘On that Day they shall all rise before the Lord of mankind.’[15]Truly the Cycle of Prophethood hath been rolled up and He Who hath sent down the Prophets hath come, arrayed with a manifest and perspicuous sovereignty. ...." Unquote
    Tablet to Hasan-i-Sháhábadí

    It is not an ordinary (Bahai) person , it is Bahaullah himself claiming "He Who hath sent down the Prophets hath come".

    Regards
     
  18. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I did not say Baha’u’llah did not say it, I said your interpretation of what it means is wrong and miscontextualised.
     
  19. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    What happens after Death?
    Don't know but if we ask believers they'll tell us all about it, 'cause they know.
     
  20. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Consider this quote from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad;

    “'I saw in one of my contemplative visions [Kash] that I am God myself and believed that I am the same. His Godhead penetrated and infused in me. My personal edifice collapsed and that of God appeared distinctly and divinity subdued me completely.' He further writes 'and in this state, I submitted that we need a new system and a new sky. So, first of all, I vaguely created the earth and the sky but there was no order and no system therein. Then according to the will of God, I put them in proper order and appropriate arrangements and I saw that I was capable of creating things. Then I originated the sky of the earth and said [sic]. Then I asserted that now We should beget man with the essence of clay. Then the state of contemplative vision converted into inspiration and I started muttering "These are the inspirations I am enlightened with by God Almighty." Kitab al Bana pp. 85 to 87
    CHAPTER TWO - Claims of Hadhrat Ahmad as

    If the saying of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is to be interpreted in light of his other writings, then shouldn’t Baha’u’llah’s sayings be interpreted in light of his other writings?
     
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