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What evidence for God

M

Mellonhead

Member
Cordoba said:
If you've read the Qur'an and come to that conclusion, that's your free choice

If however you have not then it's worth to read it with an open mind and reflect
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I have read parts of it, and that is fine. But that is not prove, or a conclusion.

The whole point of the argument is to come to a conclusion with proof, so...I guess you are stepping out of this argument?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Mellonhead said:
Wait, what does that have to do with anything regarding the size of the universe, which, I am very well aware of.

By the way, VY Canis Majoris is larger then Antares.
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i was implying the insignificance of life on this planet we call earth...:)
 
Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Mellonhead said:
The whole point of the argument is to come to a conclusion with proof, so...I guess you are stepping out of this argument?
Click to expand...

Not really, because the Qur'an itself is a proof, as it is impossible to have been written by an illiterate man 14 centuries ago
 
Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was illiterate, and lived in the desert of Arabia away from all the centers of civilization at the time (Rome & Persia)
 
M

Mellonhead

Member
Cordoba said:
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was illiterate, and lived in the desert of Arabia away from all the centers of civilization at the time (Rome & Persia)
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Again, this is a claim made by other men, with no physical or historical evidence to support it.

I say he was literate. Or, someone else wrote it.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Mellonhead said:
...What does implying the insignificance of the life on our planet do exactly? That neither helps nor hurts the case of the existence of a God.
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it depends on what the definition of god is...
an insecure celestial dictator or maybe indifference
;)
 
Cordoba

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Mellonhead said:
Again, this is a claim made by other men, with no physical or historical evidence to support it.

I say he was literate. Or, someone else wrote it.
Click to expand...

Up to you

The life of Prophet Muhammad is the most detailed life reported by many historians, and compilers of hadith books, and it is a well known fact that he could neither read nor write.

The Arabs at the time were very distinguished in Arabic poetry, and they had special events were they would choose the best poems and place them in the center of Makkah (at the Ka'bah).

From all the poets of the time, there is no account whatsoever of a poem written by Muhammad, peace be upon him. And when the Arabs listened to the Qur'an, which was revealed over a period of 23 years, they had never heard anything like it before, even though they were very eloquent in the Arabic language, and some would become Muslim only by listening to a few verses from the Qur'an

As for someone else writing the Qur'an, again it was not a valid argument, as if that were the case, this assumed person having written such a magnificent book would attribute the book to himself, and become the most famous of poets, but that never was the case

The Qur'an is simply beyond human capacity, and several attempts to imitate the Qur'an throughout history have failed ...
 
M

Mellonhead

Member
Cordoba said:
Up to you

The life of Prophet Muhammad is the most detailed life reported by many historians, and compilers of hadith books, and it is a well known fact that he could neither read nor write.

The Arabs at the time were very distinguished in Arabic poetry, and they had special events were they would choose the best poems and place them in the center of Makkah (at the Ka'bah).

From all the poets of the time, there is no account whatsoever of a poem written by Muhammad, peace be upon him. And when the Arabs listened to the Qur'an, which was revealed over a period of 23 years, they had never heard anything like it before, even though they were very eloquent in the Arabic language, and some would become Muslim only by listening to a few verses from the Qur'an

As for someone else writing the Qur'an, again it was not a valid argument, as if that were the case, this assumed person having written such a magnificent book would attribute the book to himself, and become the most famous of poets, but that never was the case

The Qur'an is simply beyond human capacity, and several attempts to imitate the Qur'an throughout history have failed ...
Click to expand...

I have heard very good details of peoples lives, even recently! But unfortunately they were people in novels.

But wait, if a person is fictional and well enough made to seem real, there can be many written things about him, that can be made to sound very convincing!

Unfortunately, there is no such evidence currently available that Muhammad was illiterate, or for that matter, even existed at all.

And of course it was not written by one person, that would be absurd.
 
McBell

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Cordoba said:
The only claim for creating the universe worth thinking of comes from God in His Divine Book
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Are you seriously suggesting that that ONLY those gods whose followers claim claim to be the creator can be the creator?

Seems like a big bunch of self serving propaganda to me.
 
M

Mellonhead

Member
Mestemia said:
Are you seriously suggesting that that ONLY those gods whose followers claim claim to be the creator can be the creator?

Seems like a big bunch of self serving propaganda to me.
Click to expand...

Oh boy! Does that mean if i make a claim and get some followers, i can be God too?
 
Wombat

Wombat

Active Member
Cordoba said:
Up to you

The life of Prophet Muhammad is the most detailed life reported by many historians, and compilers of hadith books, and it is a well known fact that he could neither read nor write.
(snip)
The Qur'an is simply beyond human capacity, and several attempts to imitate the Qur'an throughout history have failed ...
Click to expand...

From the perspective of 'poetry' or from the perspective of examination in the light of 'science'...the Qur'an must be accorded a special place in history.

"In view of the level of knowledge in Muhammad's day, it is inconceivable that many of the statements In the Qur'an which are connected with science could have been the work of a man. It is, moreover, perfectly legitimate, not only to regard the Qur'an as the expression of a Revelation, but also to award it a very special place, on account of the guarantee of authenticity it provides and the presence in it of scientific statements which, when studied today, appear as a challenge to explanation in human terms. "

The Bible, The Qur'an and Science by Dr. Maurice Bucaille

The Bible, The Qur'an and Science
 
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