What does the Islamic teaching say about how a woman should dress?

[InvestigateTruth]

Not hijab? Then that's irrelevant isn't it?

That's what is meant by inner Hijab.

 

[firedragon]

That's what is meant by inner Hijab.

Where in the Quran does it say "inner Hijab is called Hayya"?

 

[Shakeel]

What do sahih hadithes say? Can you quote a few please?

"Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba: `Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their heads and faces with those cut pieces of cloth."'

"It was narrated from Umm Salamah that the Prophet (ﷺ) said: “If anyone of you (women) has a Mukatab, and he has enough (wealth) to pay off (his contact of manumission), she must veil herself from him.”'

"Ibn Juraij said, " `Ata informed us that when Ibn Hisham forbade women to perform Tawaf with men he said to him, 'How do you forbid them while the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) used to perform Tawaf with the men?' I said, 'Was this before decreeing of the use of the veil or after it? `Ata took an oath and said, 'I saw it after the order of veil.' I said, 'How did they mix with the men?' `Ata said, 'The women never mixed with the men, and `A'ishah used to perform Tawaf separately and never mixed with men. Once it happened that `A'ishah was performing the Tawaf and woman said to her, 'O Mother of believers! Let us touch the Black stone.' `A'ishah said to her, 'Go yourself,' and she herself refused to do so. The wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) used to come out in night, in disguise and used to perform Tawaf with men. But whenever they intended to enter the Ka`bah, they would stay outside till the men had gone out. I and `Ubaid bin `Umair used to visit `A'ishah while she was residing at Jauf Thabir." I asked, "What was her veil?" `Ata said, "She was wearing an old Turkish veil, and that was the only thing (veil) which was screen between us and her. I saw a pink cover on her."'
Sahih al-Bukhari 1618 - Hajj (Pilgrimage) - كتاب الحج - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

"Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil."

"Narrated Nabhan the freed slave of Umm Salamah: to Ibn Shihab, that Umm Salamah narrated to him, that she and Maimunah were with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), she said: "So when we were with him, Ibn Umm Maktum came, and he entered upon him, and that was after veiling had been ordered for us. So the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Veil yourselves from him.' So I said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Is he not blind such that he can not see us or recognize us?' So the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Are you two blind such that you can not see him?'"'
Chapters on Manners - كتاب الأدب عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Some of these are hasan.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

"Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba: `Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their heads and faces with those cut pieces of cloth."'

"It was narrated from Umm Salamah that the Prophet (ﷺ) said: “If anyone of you (women) has a Mukatab, and he has enough (wealth) to pay off (his contact of manumission), she must veil herself from him.”'

"Ibn Juraij said, " `Ata informed us that when Ibn Hisham forbade women to perform Tawaf with men he said to him, 'How do you forbid them while the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) used to perform Tawaf with the men?' I said, 'Was this before decreeing of the use of the veil or after it? `Ata took an oath and said, 'I saw it after the order of veil.' I said, 'How did they mix with the men?' `Ata said, 'The women never mixed with the men, and `A'ishah used to perform Tawaf separately and never mixed with men. Once it happened that `A'ishah was performing the Tawaf and woman said to her, 'O Mother of believers! Let us touch the Black stone.' `A'ishah said to her, 'Go yourself,' and she herself refused to do so. The wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) used to come out in night, in disguise and used to perform Tawaf with men. But whenever they intended to enter the Ka`bah, they would stay outside till the men had gone out. I and `Ubaid bin `Umair used to visit `A'ishah while she was residing at Jauf Thabir." I asked, "What was her veil?" `Ata said, "She was wearing an old Turkish veil, and that was the only thing (veil) which was screen between us and her. I saw a pink cover on her."'
Sahih al-Bukhari 1618 - Hajj (Pilgrimage) - كتاب الحج - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

"Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil."

"Narrated Nabhan the freed slave of Umm Salamah: to Ibn Shihab, that Umm Salamah narrated to him, that she and Maimunah were with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), she said: "So when we were with him, Ibn Umm Maktum came, and he entered upon him, and that was after veiling had been ordered for us. So the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Veil yourselves from him.' So I said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Is he not blind such that he can not see us or recognize us?' So the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Are you two blind such that you can not see him?'"'
Chapters on Manners - كتاب الأدب عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Some of these are hasan.

OK, I agree, there is a Hijab in Islam. But to me, none of these hadithes is an order from Prophet to have an extreme Hijab. Asking them to cover, can simply mean, to cover their female parts, such as breast, or not wear a short dress in front of other men. I don't see anything saying, cover from head to toes

 

[Shakeel]

OK, I agree, there is a Hijab in Islam. But to me, none of these hadithes is an order from Prophet to have an extreme Hijab. Asking them to cover, can simply mean, to cover their female parts, such as breast, or not wear a short dress in front of other men. I don't see anything saying, cover from head to toes

Of course there are more hadiths, but if the women at the time covered their faces upon hearing the verse, do you think that was in addition to covering their private parts and breasts?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Of course there are more hadiths, but if the women at the time covered their faces upon hearing the verse, do you think that was in addition to covering their private parts and breasts?

Well, those hadithes you quoted does not say, the women covered their faces upon hearing these verses, do they?
Plus, it might also be related to culture of Arabs who lived in those days, rather than having to do with Sharia Law.

 

[Kooky]

For what it's worth, the historical practice of women of status veiling themselves and covering their hair or faces seems to significantly pre-date Islam in Mesopotamia and much of the Fertile Crescent, perhaps even going back to the times of the Assyrian Empire.

 

[danieldemol]

Can you cite the peer board who reviewed that cut and paste?

I never claimed it was peer reviewed, I said it was written by an internet nobody.

In my opinion.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Where in the Quran does it say "inner Hijab is called Hayya"?

I don't think the Quran has to say the obvious. I think the intention of our discussion is clear.
What is the reason Quran asks women to cover their body? It is because, Quran is against lust, and fornication, so, it wants to prevent possible temptations.
This is obvious because in many other verses, it says, lust and adultery are sins.

However, if a woman wears a complete hijab, from head to toe, that is not a prove that she will not do fornication.

I have seen with my own eyes a prostitute who had complete Hijab from Head to toe in Iran.

Because that Hijab, is an outwardly Hijab. It is only apparent. It is not an inner quality.
But, if the woman has HAYA which is inner qualify, then surely she will not commit fornication. Becaue HAYA would stop her from committing sin. Hence HAYA, is the real inner Hijab that protects her from sin.

 

[firedragon]

I don't think the Quran has to say the obvious.

Ah. So your association is based on the methodology of "obvious". Great. Thanks. Since you are just making things up in that post, I won't respond to it. Its impossible to respond to things like that. You dont even know what Hijab is, you are just making things up on the go. Great going.

Tell me. You are speaking about women having "Haya". What if I says "Hayathun Ardhi", what does that mean?

 

[Shakeel]

Hence HAYA, is the real inner Hijab that protects her from sin

It doesn't protect her from others' sin.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It doesn't protect her from others' sin.

How?

 

[Shakeel]

How?

Looking, harassing, rape, incest, slander.. to name a few.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Looking, harassing, rape, incest, slander.. to name a few.

Is it a woman's fault she is raped or pushed into Incest?

 

[Shakeel]

Is it a woman's fault she is raped or pushed into Incest?

As for rape, no, but she can do her part in preventing it. As for incest, sometimes women commit it willingly. It doesn't mean they were pushed, but when girls and women dress negligently in front of their family the chances of someone being attracted to the idea increase and again she has to do her part that no such thought would ever occur to anyone.

 

[Spirit of Light]

As for rape, no, but she can do her part in preventing it. As for incest, sometimes women commit it willingly. It doesn't mean they were pushed, but when girls and women dress negligently in front of their family the chances of someone being attracted to the idea increase and again she has to do her part that no such thought would ever occur to anyone.

But the man could have stopped it since they know it is against Islamic law?

 

[Shakeel]

But the man could have stopped it since they know it is against Islamic law?

Stopped what? Since when were crimes prevented simply because people know they're crimes? Your ideology is unrealistic.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Stopped what? Since when were crimes prevented simply because people know they're crimes? Your ideology is unrealistic.

If a man know it is wrong to rape, he should not do it, he should have control on his urges and never touch a woman improperly or harm her in any way shape or form. that is the right way to do it.

 

[Shakeel]

If a man know it is wrong to rape, he should not do it, he should have control on his urges and never touch a woman improperly or harm her in any way shape or form. that is the right way to do it.

How does that defend women against rape though? How do you make all men act like that? It's never going to happen, right? So what about those other men, who choose to rape someone? How will you protect women from those? By saying, "he shouldn't have done that"?

By the way, it isn't usually about urges at all so even if all men controlled their sexual urges completely in themselves, that wouldn't make an end for rape.

 

[Spirit of Light]

How does that defend women against rape though? How do you make all men act like that? It's never going to happen, right? So what about those other men, who choose to rape someone? How will you protect women from those? By saying, "he shouldn't have done that"?

By the way, it isn't usually about urges at all so even if all men controlled their sexual urges completely in themselves, that wouldn't make an end for rape.

If men know it is wrong, at least fewer women will become raped. Will it stop totally just by men understanding that it is wrong? Not it will not. But There is a problem that some men do not see women as human beings, they see them as property and as a tool.