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What does "one" mean?

TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Brian2 said:
True there is One God but Deut 6:4 does not say anything about religions,,,,,,,,,,,,,,some of which have many gods.
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I see that the many God's are our own perceptions of all the Attributes shown in this world by One God, who has come in Many Names as shown by many Mesengers.

In this day we are able to have a global vision and to appreciate we are one human race. This is the 'Day of God', promised in all scriptures. There is no excuse for us not to embrace unity. That's how I see it anyway and that is the Message of Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony
 
L

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
There is a man named John Doe. In his family is a son named Joe Doe. The father is older and more educated than his young son. You could say he is "greater" than his son. But they are part of ONE family. There is also a Heavenly Father who has a heavenly son. The son has said that the father is "greater" than himself. But they are both in ONE God. God is ONE but includes a father and a son.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Teritos said:
What does it mean when the Bible says that God is one?
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Judaism is the first religion to have a permanent belief in One God. There was a temporary belief in One God earlier with the Egyptians, but that only lasted with one pharaoh.
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
Brian2 said:
That seems to be just the nature of the word. I decide on the context of a passage I guess.
My main argument is that a Jew or JW or whoever cannot use Deut 6:4 to say that God is NOT a compound one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no matter what Maimonides may have said about the oneness of God.
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But you are inventing this notion of "compound one" and then saying "no one can say that this invention isn't what is in Deut."

All things (until you get to subatomic particles) are made of other things. So therefore, according to this, ALL things are "compound unities", right? There is no "one God" at any level, because God, if "one" must be a compound. If that's your understanding of the word "one" then so be it. But be consistent. Saying "I decide on the context" you are admitting the capricious nature of your interpretation -- when you want it to mean "compound" you say it means "compound." No rhyme or reason other than your need and whim.
 
Etritonakin

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Clara Tea said:
Am what I am:


For Popeye, "am what I am" is an expression of humility. He pointed out that he has only one eye, and has other shortcomings, but, on the other hand, he has many good qualities, as well (honesty, etc).
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Realize you are that.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Teritos said:
Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, Israel: Yahweh, our God, is one Yahweh.
James 2:19
You believe that God is one, you do right; also the demons believe and tremble.

What does it mean when the Bible says that God is one?
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It means no more than one, or not divided. This means that polytheism is wrong, and that the muddled monotheism of the Trinity is also wrong.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Teritos said:
Abraham's work in killing his own son justified him because he wanted to do it out of loyalty to God.
But to call this a good work is absolutely wrong. It is a work of faith.
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There is a Jewish midrash that says Abraham failed the test, that God expected him to morally argue with him a case against killing an innocent, much as he did regarding the punishment of the city of Sodom.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
IndigoChild5559 said:
and that the muddled monotheism of the Trinity is also wrong.
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Depends on how it's dealt with. For example, one may say that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of God but are not actually God, much like a prophet may be said to be of God. The Catholic view is that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the essence* of God but are not literally God, often referred to as being the "Mystery of the Trinity" since it is rather "muddled", as you say.


* a philosophical approach of Aristotle and Plato.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
metis said:
Depends on how it's dealt with. For example, one may say that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of God but are not actually God, much like a prophet may be said to be of God. The Catholic view is that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the essence* of God but are not literally God, often referred to as being the "Mystery of the Trinity" since it is rather "muddled", as you say.


* a philosophical approach of Aristotle and Plato.
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My friend, my understanding is that Catholic teaching is that Jesus IS literally God the son.
 
F

filthyrottendirty

Member
lostwanderingsoul said:
There is a man named John Doe. In his family is a son named Joe Doe. The father is older and more educated than his young son. You could say he is "greater" than his son. But they are part of ONE family. There is also a Heavenly Father who has a heavenly son. The son has said that the father is "greater" than himself. But they are both in ONE God. God is ONE but includes a father and a son.
Click to expand...
Our concept of God differs. God is a person in his own right. God is not a "unit" or an "essence". The Father alone is God. The son himself said it.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
IndigoChild5559 said:
My friend, my understanding is that Catholic teaching is that Jesus IS literally God the son.
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It depends on how it's put and possibly rendered.

Throughout the NT there's a distinction at times that rather clearly indicates that Jesus is not literally God, such as when he said that he did not know when the end of times would be as only the Father would know. Also, Jesus talks to his Father in the Garden and when he was on the cross, which would make no sense whatsoever if he actually was God.

When putting together the early NT scriptures, they were rendered in Koine Greek, and the Greeks and Greek philosophy was heavily influenced by Aristotle especially, including his and Plato's concept of "essence". In Catholic theology, this is the approach that is taken.

Remember that one definition of "essence" is that the whole is more than just a some of its parts, so listing all the materials that compose a car still does not arrive at what its "essence" is. Thus, Jesus and the Holy Spirit being of God [the "essence" of God], but not literally God, is the view that is taught theologically. However, in the pews that message may not be clear.

Speaking of "pews", I spent two days in a kibbutz back in 1991 near the Golan Heights that made pews. Loved the place.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
metis said:
It depends on how it's put and possibly rendered.

Throughout the NT there's a distinction at times that rather clearly indicates that Jesus is not literally God, such as when he said that he did not know when the end of times would be as only the Father would know. Also, Jesus talks to his Father in the Garden and when he was on the cross, which would make no sense whatsoever if he actually was God.

When putting together the early NT scriptures, they were rendered in Koine Greek, and the Greeks and Greek philosophy was heavily influenced by Aristotle especially, including his and Plato's concept of "essence". In Catholic theology, this is the approach that is taken.

Remember that one definition of "essence" is that the whole is more than just a some of its parts, so listing all the materials that compose a car still does not arrive at what its "essence" is. Thus, Jesus and the Holy Spirit being of God [the "essence" of God], but not literally God, is the view that is taught theologically. However, in the pews that message may not be clear.

Speaking of "pews", I spent two days in a kibbutz back in 1991 near the Golan Heights that made pews. Loved the place.
Click to expand...
How cool is that, that you were able to spend time in Israel! I admit I am envious :).

I think it is worth noting that it is not only the Bible that defines Trinitarianism, but the writings of the Church Fathers, especially around the time of the 4th century. When they say one essence, they are not talking about a divided essence, where some of it is here and some of it is there.

I think it is worth noting that if you take the three persons of the Trinity, and divide the essence as well, you end up with Polytheism, which defeats the whole purpose of Trinitarianism. You've jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
Because it doesnt say so. A singular must say something like "One Year" or make a statement like "God is one, with three in it, with one Ousia" or something like that. Your justification is post hoc ergo propter hoc.
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I don't think it would have to say those things.
Not everything is given in the one place. Later revelation indicates that the compound one meaning is what was meant. God is still ONE, but is a compound One. Maybe the Jews have no reason to believe that with their interpretation of the Tanakh and rejection of Jesus. If they turned to Jesus their mind would be open to a different interpretation of the Tanakh also.
 
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