What do you think the biggest misunderstanding about Christmas is?

[Left Coast]

Please post the verse where it says the house was in Bethlehem.

"In the time of King Herod, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, asking, “Where is the child who has been born king of the Jews? For we observed his star at its rising, and have come to pay him homage.” When King Herod heard this, he was frightened, and all Jerusalem with him; and calling together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Messiah was to be born. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it has been written by the prophet:
‘And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who is to shepherd my people Israel.’”

Then Herod secretly called for the wise men and learned from them the exact time when the star had appeared. Then he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child; and when you have found him, bring me word so that I may also go and pay him homage.” When they had heard the king, they set out; and there, ahead of them, went the star that they had seen at its rising, until it stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw that the star had stopped, they were overwhelmed with joy. On entering the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother; and they knelt down and paid him homage."

They left Bethlehem to Jerusalem where Jesus was circumcised and stayed in Jerusalem for 40 days before returning home to Nazareth.

Not according to Matthew. According to Matthew, they left Bethlehem and went to Egypt. After staying in Egypt, Matthew doesn't say they "returned" to Nazareth, he says "There he made his home in a town called Nazareth," because that's the first time he thinks they ever lived there (unlike the author of Luke).

 

[Riders]

9 Things You Should Know About the Christmas Story

Or maybe some of the details don't matter? number of wise men, age of Jesus when they visited, ....

I like number 2
Most modern translations say that Mary gave birth and laid Jesus in a manger because there was no place for them in the inn or guest house. But as New Testament scholar Stephen C. Carlson argues, the end of Luke 2:7 should be translated as “because they had no space in their place to stay.” As Carlson says, “The problem facing Joseph and Mary in the story was not that they were denied a particular or well-known place to stay when they first arrived, but that their place to stay was not such that it could accommodate the birth and neonatal care of the baby Jesus.” The result would be that the birth of Jesus occurred in the main room of the house—likely belonging to relatives of Joseph—rather than in the couple’s smaller marital apartment attached to the house.

The virgin birth

 

[Deeje]

"In the time of King Herod, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, asking, “Where is the child who has been born king of the Jews? For we observed his star at its rising, and have come to pay him homage.” When King Herod heard this, he was frightened, and all Jerusalem with him; and calling together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Messiah was to be born. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it has been written by the prophet:
‘And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who is to shepherd my people Israel.’”

Then Herod secretly called for the wise men and learned from them the exact time when the star had appeared. Then he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child; and when you have found him, bring me word so that I may also go and pay him homage.” When they had heard the king, they set out; and there, ahead of them, went the star that they had seen at its rising, until it stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw that the star had stopped, they were overwhelmed with joy. On entering the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother; and they knelt down and paid him homage."



Not according to Matthew. According to Matthew, they left Bethlehem and went to Egypt. After staying in Egypt, Matthew doesn't say they "returned" to Nazareth, he says "There he made his home in a town called Nazareth," because that's the first time he thinks they ever lived there (unlike the author of Luke).

Good grief....

 

[Left Coast]

Good grief....

I know! Christians who don't even know what their own Bible says make me too. Thanks for commiserating.

 

[Deeje]

I know! Christians who don't even know what their own Bible says make me too. Thanks for commiserating.

LOL.....its the non-Christians and atheists who somehow profess to be the greatest "experts" on what the Bible says.....

....makes me laugh.

Definition of an expert...."ex" = 0 "spurt" = a drip under pressure....pretty accurate if you ask me....

 

[Left Coast]

LOL.....its the non-Christians and atheists who somehow profess to be the greatest "experts" on what the Bible says.....

....makes me laugh.

Definition of an expert...."ex" = 0 "spurt" = a drip under pressure....pretty accurate if you ask me....

Doesn't take an "expert" to read . It is pretty humorous, though, that so many people who believe so ardently in something don't even know what it says. Makes me laugh too!

 

[Sand Dancer]

9 Things You Should Know About the Christmas Story

Or maybe some of the details don't matter? number of wise men, age of Jesus when they visited, ....

I like number 2
Most modern translations say that Mary gave birth and laid Jesus in a manger because there was no place for them in the inn or guest house. But as New Testament scholar Stephen C. Carlson argues, the end of Luke 2:7 should be translated as “because they had no space in their place to stay.” As Carlson says, “The problem facing Joseph and Mary in the story was not that they were denied a particular or well-known place to stay when they first arrived, but that their place to stay was not such that it could accommodate the birth and neonatal care of the baby Jesus.” The result would be that the birth of Jesus occurred in the main room of the house—likely belonging to relatives of Joseph—rather than in the couple’s smaller marital apartment attached to the house.

That the Christian version was the original story.

 

[Sand Dancer]

LOL.....its the non-Christians and atheists who somehow profess to be the greatest "experts" on what the Bible says.....

....makes me laugh.

Definition of an expert...."ex" = 0 "spurt" = a drip under pressure....pretty accurate if you ask me....

Most atheists were Christian and tend to know the Bible better than current Christians.

 

[Left Coast]

Most atheists were Christian and tend to know the Bible better than current Christians.

Exactly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I find at Luke 2:2 Luke mentions the ' first ' registration, so that ' first 'could have been the earlier registration over which would have happened sooner then the ten years later one.
Justin Martyr cites Roman records as proof of Luke being accurate regarding Quirinius' earlier or first governorship at the time of Jesus birth.
There is No evidence about Luke's account being ever challenged by the early historians including Celsus.

No, all of those claims have been checked and falsified. I do not feel like going into the history right now but you will not find a valid source that supports that argument at all. It is one cobbled together by apologists.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why would be the festival for 'Dies Natalis Solis Invicti' be in winter when the warmth of sun is at the lowest? Is the sun born or withers in winter? The time for birth of the victorious Sun would be in spring, day of vernal equinox. That was the beginning of the year for many Indo-Europeans, including the Indo-Iranian Aryans, Zoroastrians and Hindus. It is for this reason that I consider that the Festival had regressed from March to December because of the precession of equinox (a month in 2000 years) and faulty calendar keeping. Later the Christians picked it up as their own.

 

[Deeje]

Most atheists were Christian and tend to know the Bible better than current Christians.

This also makes me smile....most atheists were misled by Christendom; they were not taught Christianity at all. They only had Christendom's version of what that means. Any wonder there are so many defectors. They either look for alternate gods or divorce themselves from religion altogether...and who can blame them?

As one who defected from Christendom myself, I did not throw the baby out with the filthy bathwater like they did....I kept the baby, cleaned him up, and he grew into the most wonderful person I have ever encountered in my life. He is nothing like Christendom portrays him, and their Bible interpretation is so distorted that, no wonder they are fractured into so many bickering sects....but all claiming Jesus as their Lord. (Matthew 7:21-23)

I'll keep the baby....the godless can please themselves.

 

[Left Coast]

This also makes me smile....most atheists were misled by Christendom; they were not taught Christianity at all. They only had Christendom's version of what that means. Any wonder there are so many defectors. They either look for alternate gods or divorce themselves from religion altogether...and who can blame them?

As one who defected from Christendom myself, I did not throw the baby out with the filthy bathwater like they did....I kept the baby, cleaned him up, and he grew into the most wonderful person I have ever encountered in my life. He is nothing like Christendom portrays him, and their Bible interpretation is so distorted that, no wonder they are fractured into so many bickering sects....but all claiming Jesus as their Lord. (Matthew 7:21-23)

I'll keep the baby....the godless can please themselves.

Your sect of Christianity (which is just yet another historically very recent fracture) has a ton of defectors. In fact, in a recent thread you actually considered that evidence that your version of Christianity was the true one!

So which is it: do lots of defectors demonstrate that a religion is false or true?

 

[Eyad Sarraj]

The biggest misunderstanding is that Christmas is a man made holiday and the alleged event never happened. In December in those Hills, any baby would have frozen to death!

 

[Deeje]

Your sect of Christianity (which is just yet another historically very recent fracture) has a ton of defectors. In fact, in a recent thread you actually considered that evidence that your version of Christianity was the true one!

So which is it: do lots of defectors demonstrate that a religion is false or true?

Since Jesus said that those on the road to life would be "few" I guess you need to do the math. The reason why so "few" are on the right road is because it isn't easy going. It actually has a lot of obstacles and the ones who are not truly committed will not last the distance. It requires endurance like a marathon. (Matthew 7:13-14; Matthew 24:13) Some just can't make it to the finish line.

He also said that "many" would acknowledge him as their "Lord" on judgment day, but he tells them that he "never knew" them. (Matthew 7:21-23) "Never" means "not ever".....so there you have it.

You also need to understand that apostasy was to be a common experience after the death of the apostles in the first century...but since you know your Bible so well, you would already know that...right?

 

[Augustus]

Why would be the festival for 'Dies Natalis Solis Invicti' be in winter when the warmth of sun is at the lowest? Is the sun born or withers in winter? The time for birth of the victorious Sun would be in spring, day of vernal equinox.

Perhaps counterintuitively, festivals for Sol/Helios were not tied to solar events and had been celebrated on multiple different days (The Invictus part is an epithet like Jesus 'Christ', and wasn't unique to Sol/Helios).

It is for this reason that I consider that the Festival had regressed from March to December because of the precession of equinox (a month in 2000 years) and faulty calendar keeping. Later the Christians picked it up as their own.

It wasn't linked to the equinox in the first place though.

There is more evidence that the Pagan emperor Julian the Apostate (2nd Emperor after Constantine) chose the 25th after it had become a Christian festival. Julian was trying to roll back the influence of Christianity on the Empire, hence the name by which he is known to history.

 

[Aupmanyav]

All festivals are related to seasonal or astronomical events. Even if Dec. 25 was the day of Jesus' birth, in 2000 years, it has precessed to Nov. 25 due to precession of equinox. So, the date of Christmas is only cultural.

 

[Left Coast]

Since Jesus said that those on the road to life would be "few" I guess you need to do the math. The reason why so "few" are on the right road is because it isn't easy going. It actually has a lot of obstacles and the ones who are not truly committed will not last the distance. It requires endurance like a marathon. (Matthew 7:13-14; Matthew 24:13) Some just can't make it to the finish line.

He also said that "many" would acknowledge him as their "Lord" on judgment day, but he tells them that he "never knew" them. (Matthew 7:21-23) "Never" means "not ever".....so there you have it.

You also need to understand that apostasy was to be a common experience after the death of the apostles in the first century...but since you know your Bible so well, you would already know that...right?

Got it, you're sticking with your prior claim that lots of defectors is a sign of being the true version of Christianity. So you're admitting that your claim just hours ago that lots of defectors is a sign that a group is not the true version of Christianity was total bunk.

Understood, thank you!

 

[Sand Dancer]

This also makes me smile....most atheists were misled by Christendom; they were not taught Christianity at all. They only had Christendom's version of what that means. Any wonder there are so many defectors. They either look for alternate gods or divorce themselves from religion altogether...and who can blame them?

As one who defected from Christendom myself, I did not throw the baby out with the filthy bathwater like they did....I kept the baby, cleaned him up, and he grew into the most wonderful person I have ever encountered in my life. He is nothing like Christendom portrays him, and their Bible interpretation is so distorted that, no wonder they are fractured into so many bickering sects....but all claiming Jesus as their Lord. (Matthew 7:21-23)

I'll keep the baby....the godless can please themselves.

And you know this how? lol How arrogant. People grow, learn and change. Nothing wrong with that. Many people are scared into Christianity. It's not a good fit for everyone and that is fine. I don't think the Religious Right was taught Christianity at all. Most people like Jesus and most of what he taught. He was a good role model.

 

[metis]

Even early historians did Not challenge what Luke wrote at Luke 2:2. Even Celcus did Not disagree with Luke 2:2
Luke wrote about the ' first ' or earlier registration.
Earlier or sooner than the later 6 C.E. census.
Plus, Justin Martyr cites Roman records as proof of Luke's accuracy regarding Quirinius' being governor at the time of Jesus birth. (A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture edited by B. Orchard )

I'm citing what the Roman historians have stated as far as when their census were ordered, and they say the closest day to Jesus' birth was in 6 c.e. BTW, my source for this comes archaeologists as shown on the Smithsonian Channel.

As always, we have to be careful in regards to realizing that religious writings are subjective, not objective. And since these accounts were written many decades later, ...