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What do you think of the virgin birth of Jesus ?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by FearGod, May 8, 2015.

?
  1. I don't believe it, it is irrational

    69.6%
  2. I believe that it happened and can be explained by science

    4.3%
  3. I believe that it happened by a supernatural way and it can't be explained by science

    26.1%
  1. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Born-again Glompist
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    Read about evolution if you want to expand your knowledge about it. It seems to me that you are just repeating misconceptions about it on religious grounds instead of trying to understand it.
     
  2. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    Don't you agree that mutations is a random process and should occur first in order for natural selection and evolution to work ?
     
  3. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Born-again Glompist
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    Yes, mutation is random. What's wrong with that?
     
  4. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    It means rubbish, how you respect science while accepting that our complex bodies and intelligence were just due to random mutations through long period of time.
     
  5. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Born-again Glompist
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    Because the evidence points to that. If there were no scientific evidence suggesting that we were the result of evolution, I wouldn't believe it. There is a lot of evidence to support evolution, however.
     
  6. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    At the beginning of life there were no genders and reproduction were asexual, can you explain according to the evidences when and at which point males and females evolved ?
     
  7. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Born-again Glompist
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    A magical power created life and there was suddenly life on Earth, male and female.

    There. Does that make you happy? We all know magic is the answer, right?
     
  8. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    No magic, but a plan and design.
     
  9. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Well, at least it explains why we look like apes.

    The alternative would be that God is so fond of the ape body, for some reason, that He decided to create the Universe, together with its zillion galaxies, so that beings looking like monkeys (in His image, apparently) could exist in a remote part of it.

    I don't know you, but if I intended to create such magnificence, I would not make the pinnacle of my creation look like a hairless gorilla. Would you?

    And we are supposed to respect and take that seriously, right?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #169 viole, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  10. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    It make sense.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    It does. Doesn't it? Nose, mouth, ears, hands, legs, arms, etc, and postures are very similar. All you have to do is to remove the hair.

    For sure we look much different than spiders or birds, for instance.

    Why not make us much more different than any of them, in your opinion?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  12. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

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    Lots of bacteria produces sexually without ever needing anything resembling an organ.

    Yup. Lots to learn.
     
  13. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    And do bacterias have genders.
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Aupmanyav said:
    Well, for example, myself. My mother was a virgin when she married my father. Am I not born of a woman who was a virgin?

    Paarsurrey wrote:
    Well in that sense everybody is born of a virgin.
    I agree with you.
    I further have to add.
    Abdullah got married to a Aminah a virgin (not previously married to anybody). Muhammad was born of Abullah and Aminah.
    The prophecy most suitably is fulfilled on Muhammad than anybody else, I think.
    What does one think? Please.

    Regards
     
  15. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

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    I have to correct myself here. I was wrong, apparently one of the dividing lines between prokaryotes (bacteria) and eukaryotes (basically everything else) is that bacteria does not sexually reproduce, so I was wrong. So to answer your question, no, bacteria doesn't have genders. How every, there are microscopic multi-cellular protista that do.

    "Sexual reproduction is the primary method of reproduction for the vast majority of macroscopic organisms, including almost all eukaryotes (which includes animals and plants).[1]Prokaryotes reproduce through asexual reproduction but may display processes similar to sexual reproduction (mechanisms for lateral gene transfer such as bacterial conjugation, transformation and transduction), but they do not lead to reproduction."

    And

    "The first fossilized evidence of sexual reproduction in eukaryotes is from the Stenian period, about 1 to 1.2 billion years ago."

    Also:

    ""Multicellular filaments from the ca. 1200-Ma Hunting Formation (Somerset Island, arctic Canada) are identified as bangiacean red algae on the basis of diagnostic cell-division patterns. As the oldest taxonomically resolved eukaryote on record Bangiomorpha pubescens n. gen. n. sp. provides a key datum point for constraining protistan phylogeny. Combined with an increasingly resolved record of other Proterozoic eukaryotes, these fossils mark the onset of a major protistan radiation near the Mesoproterozoic/Neoproterozoic boundary.

    Differential spore/gamete formation shows Bangiomorpha pubescens to have been sexually reproducing, the oldest reported occurrence in the fossil record. Sex was critical for the subsequent success of eukaryotes, not so much for the advantages of genetic recombination, but because it allowed for complex multicellularity. The selective advantages of complex multicellularity are considered sufficient for it to have arisen immediately following the appearance of sexual reproduction. As such, the most reliable proxy for the first appearance of sex will be the first stratigraphic occurrence of complex multicellularity."

    Bangiomorpha pubescens n. gen., n. sp.: implications for the evolution of sex, multicellularity, and the Mesoproterozoic/Neoproterozoic radiation of eukaryotes
     
  16. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

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    Random mutations have been observed. Wasn't hasn't actually ever been observed is there being no random mutations to DNA when it's replicated.

    Why would I think that random mutations would ever stop in any particular direction?
     
  17. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    is not bacteria origin of life , so IF the bacteria no sexually reproduce and genders, so who make the plan and desing the sexually reproduce and genders ?
     
  18. dust1n

    dust1n Zindīq

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    Well, we can just go ahead and assume God did it, since anything difficult gets attributed to God, despite the fact that we couldn't know any more about this as can look into a billion year old window in the past to witness the very first microscopic organism sharing DNA in a way that we would call sexual reproduction because there is no evidence for this either.

    Or we can just keep looking at all the available data that is about and keep coming up with theories and testing those theories.

    No one knows exactly how sexual reproduction started.
     
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  19. Bunyip

    Bunyip pro scapegoat

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    Then what is the point of all this nonsense about building blocks if you don't even have any idea how the builder came to be?
     
  20. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    The building blocks means there was a builder, not knowing or seeing him, won't change the fact.
     
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