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Featured What constitutes a Prophet of the God of Abraham?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by adrian009, Mar 12, 2021.

  1. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Unbelievable. This is why the church doesn't know what a Prophet is. LMAOO

    The reason i can say it, is because I know what a Prophet is. And Moses is not a Prophet. He doesn't have the abilities of a Prophet. He cannot hear from GOD inaudibly.
     
  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    What you are claiming is "unbelievable". We can read and scripture clearly says that Moses was a prophet. Who is to say that your interpretation is correct? Who else believes what you believe?
    Be careful who gets to laugh last.....[​IMG]
     
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  3. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    It doesn't, it says that GOD will raise up a Prophet, that can stand next to Moses as a kingdom authority, and lead everyone to the Promised Land. And look, Joshua took over. And did Joshua hear from GOD audibly?

    If you could understand this basic thing, you would understand why the Law Moses, and the Prophet, Elijah were called the two witnesses in the book of Revelation 11.

    And you would understand why the Law was written on 2 tablet stone, signifying the two witnesses, the Law and the Prophet.

    You would also understand why it was Moses and Elijah that came to the Mountain of Olives mark 9
     
  4. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    Scripture clearly identifies Moses as a Prophet and I’m not aware of any Christian denomination that would deny He was. I don’t hear too many Christians refer to Jesus as His ‘Pre-Eminence’. What’s that about? On you avatar your religion is specified as ‘none’. Is that correct?
     
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  5. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    It is written: And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    I call HIM, Jesus His Pre-Eminence, because HE is GOD, and HE has Pre-Eminence in all things.

    Scripture doesn't clearly identify him as a Prophet, on the contrary, it proves he isn't. Now if GOD speaks, do you take HIS word over what Moses says? Because remember, Moses is not infallable. In fact, he made many mistakes. in that scripture you are all posting, is it GOD he said, said it?

    Deut 18
    15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

    16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.


    Now look at this:

    Malachi 4:4-6

    4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

    5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

    6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


    Now GOD said:

    Numbers 12

    4 And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

    5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

    6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

    7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.


    Compare to Mark 9:

    2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

    3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

    4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

    5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

    6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

    7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

    Im posting all this so you can see if for yourself, how they agree and link up together.

    Elijah is the Prophet that was spoken of that will come after Moses and lead the people to salvation., the same way Moses did... Which means he will be the head of the church in the earth, no matter where we are located, he will be the leader. And he will lead us into all truth.

    Moses is the Law. The reason he is not a Prophet is because he is defining the body. While the Prophet Elijah, is defining the Spirit. Jesus His Pre-Eminence called him the Spirit of truth which churches have badly misinterpreted.

    He is the Law, Jesus His Pre-Eminence is the Word, and Elijah is the Prophet. That what Moses, Aaron, and Miriam were also pointing to, which is why there was also a cloud that time.
    Then Jesus His Pre-Eminence took Apostles James, Peter and John to the mountain of Olives, and they were also in a cloud with Moses, Jesus His Pre-Eminence and Elijah.

    These things were not done randomly, its the reason why Apostle Peter asked: let us make tabernacles, one for Moses, one for Elijah, and one for Thee.
    James was baptized into the tabernacle of the Law, Peter, the Word, and John, the Prophet.

    You can see for yourself, if you are honest and not indocrtinated, that this is true. James wrote about the Law, Peter was the leader of the Church, and John the Prophet who received the Vision of what is to come! The book of Revelation!

    So according to the Law, the Word and the Prophet, Moses cannot be a Prophet, because he is the Law.


     
  6. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I appreciate the verses you included, especially Deuteronomy 18:22, as it relates to the difference between true or false prophets.
    I am aware that different religions or sacred writings have those considered to be prophets, but I think the Bible is unique concerning the subject of prophecy. Unlike any other the sacred writings of various religions, approximately 30% of the Bible is prophetic. I think an important question is, “Why?”.
    I find it significant that the God of the Bible identifies Himself as the One who accurately foretells the future and points to prophecy as the irrefutable evidence of His existence and the authenticity of His Word: "For I am God, and there is no other ...Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, my counsel shall stand..." (Isa:46:9-10).

    I believe understanding prophecy and seeing it’s fulfillment shows that history is not merely occurring by chance, rather it is going somewhere because God has a plan.

    The two major topics of the biblical prophets are 1) Israel and 2) the Messiah who would come to Israel and through Israel to the world. I find the amount of prophecy and fulfillment on these two topics to be amazing and irrefutable proof of the existence of the biblical God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    True prophets reveal God's plan in advance and when their prophecies are proved to be accurate, they are proved to be prophets of the true God who alone knows the future.
     
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  7. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    I would agree with much of what you have written. I would see the period from Moses to Christ as being the Prophetic era whereas much changed with both Jesus and then Muhammad. So I would consider God has revealed Himself through Prophets that were not Jewish and may not have referred to Jewish scriptures little.

    Much if at all Jewish scriptures were completely unknown to most peoples. Hinduism is an example where religious traditions unfolded in parallel to those of the Jews. The Quran is an exception as nearly a quarter of its contents is in reference to characters in the Christian Bible. That makes sense as Muhammad proclaimed the Oneness of God and the need for His people to turn from pagan worship and be like the Jews and Christians.

    It could also be argued that our current age is one of fulfilment rather than further prophecy. We are headed towards increasing cooperation between diverse peoples of the world with less wars. This was clearly prophecised by Isaiah.

    Of course you would be unlikely to see God working through the Peoples of the Arabian Peninsula nor the Indian subcontinent. It does not matter because at least we believe in the Divine Inspiration of the Christian Bible.
     
  8. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    Thanks for explaining you POV. I better understand how you see it. I would see both Moses and Jesus meeting the criteria for being a Prophet. Being a Prophet doesn’t contradict Moses being the Friend of God, nor Jesus being the Son of God. Of course I believe in Elijah’s Return through John the Baptist and the Divinity of Christ. I doubt if we’ll agree about Moses and Jesus being Prophets but that’s the nature of religion and beliefs. All the best with that.
     
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  9. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Jesus HIs Pre-Eminence is GOD. HE is the GOD of the Spirit of the Prophets.
    Moses is not a Prophet. Moses brought the Law. He is the Law.

    There is the body, the soul and the Spirit.
    There is the law, the Word and the Prophet.

    There is three Elijah.
    Elijah of Tishbe
    Elijah John the Baptist
    Elijah the Son of Man.

    Just like there is Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - three again.

    To be a Prophet, means you must be in shoes of the Spirit. Because the Prophet is defining the Spirit.
    To be the Word, means that at the time that person is in the earth, they are the one whose word should be hearkened too.
    To be the Law, it means that the person is in the shoes of the body.

    Proof:
    Aaron was the one that headed the levitical priesthood. In that three, Moses, Aaron, and Miriam (Which is a faulty foundation), Aaron was the word. Moses was the Law, and Miriam the Prophet.

    With Moses, Jesus His Pre-Eminence and Elijah. Jesus His Pre-Eminence is the Word. That is why GOD said: Hear ye HIM.

    And Jesus His Pre-Eminence said: I did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophet but to fulfil..

    Jesus His Pre-Eminence is the binding of the Law and the Prophets. HE links the two together.
    Just like the Soul, is what links the Spirit of the person and their mortal body. The Soul is the mediator between Spirit and body.

    So Moses, who brought the Law, is defining the body; the mortal body.
    Jesus His Pre-Eminence, the Word, is deifining the soul
    Elijah, the Prophet, is defining the Spirit.

    All three together are one. You cannot have the Word without the Law. You cannot have the Word without the Prophet. You must have both the Law and the Prophet to have the Word.

    Moses, defining the body, could not hear from GOD directly, because the body cannot hear from GOD inaudibly. It is the Spirit that can hear from GOD inaudibly.
    That is why Moses was not the one to lead the people into Jericho, (GOD knowing all things knew that Moses would not be able to do it, but sent him anyway). But is the Prophet Joshua, that led the people into Jericho, and brought the walls down by Revelations, and then lead them across Jordan, into Canaán, to show that it is the Prophet that will do it, that Prophet being Elijah.

    And he did it. He traveled from Gilgal to Bethel, from Bethel to Jericho, from Jericho to Jordan and across and transfigured and entered into heaven alive.

    So I explained all this to further show how Moses is not a Prophet. He was sent, and GOD knowing that he cannot hear from GOD inaudibly, spoke to him as they wrote, face to face.

    Elijah that is to come, is not Elijah of Tishbe, or Elijah john the Baptist, it is the 3rd Elijah, who was called the comforter, the Spirit of truth, who will lead us into all truth, who will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and turn the hearts of the children to the fathers. Who are the fathers? And he will finish the mystery Rev 10:7, he will restore all things Matt 17:10-13, and he is that another voice Rev 18:4 Just as John the Baptist was the voice of one crying in the wilderness, and he will baptize us by the Spirit, which is that he, defining the Spirit, will feed us with the Word of GOD, to the point that we crush death, which means to put off mortality, puut off incoruptibiliy, and put on immortality, and on inccoruptibility, and then transfigure in life. He was called the 7th Angel of the Church in Rev 3. He was called the stone hewn without hands by Daniel.

    Sure, we are likely not to agree, lets see what happens. Its either you are right, or I am right.
     
    #49 Yahcubs777, Mar 13, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Abdu'l-Baha, the son of Baha'u'llah and the centre of His Covenant, knew what it meant to be a Prophet, and I quoted him earlier on in this thread:

    #12 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 3:08 PM
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Jesus never claimed to be God. Those who make Him into God have a misunderstanding if scripture.
    Those who want to raise Jesus us to a level higher than the other Prophets have made Jesus into God.

    Jesus claimed to reveal God, Whom He called Father, but Jesus differentiated Himself from God:

    John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:

    John 8:40 But now ye seek to slay me, a man that have spoken to you [the] truth, that I heard of God; Abraham did not this thing.

    John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

    John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.


    Jesus said that God was greater than He was:

    Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

    Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

    John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

    John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


    Moreover, Jesus said that no man has ever seen God:

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.


    Jesus said He was from God and that God sent Him, again differentiating Himself from God:

    John 17:3 And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

    John 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.


    Jesus even stated specifically that the Father had knowledge which was not possessed by the Son.

    Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.

    Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


    Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded. Jesus never referred to Himself as God.

    Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

    Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

    Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

    According to Bahai beliefs, Moses was a Prophet, a Messenger of God, a Servant of God and the Voice of God.
    According to Baha'i beliefs, Jesus was a Prophet, a Messenger of God, a Servant of God and the Voice of God.
    That's true, but how are you going to prove who is right and who is wrong and when will we know?
     
    #51 Trailblazer, Mar 13, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Because Moses was a different kind of Prophet than the other Prophets, as was explained in my other post:

    #12 Trailblazer, Yesterday at 3:08 PM

    And it is because Moses was a universal Manifestation of God who brought the Law that He was considered like no other Prophets of those times.

    Deuteronomy 34:10 "And there was no other prophet who arose in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face"
     
  13. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Jesus His Pre-Eminence revealed many times HIS identity. But ive gone through this so many times. Go back through any number of my posts and youll see the answer i gave.

    Jesus HIs Pre-Eminence birth lied about HIS true Identity. That is to say, the fact that HE came into this earth through the womb of a woman, did not allow the people to see HIS true identity. In HIS messages, in HIS parables, in HIS deeds, HE revealed HE is GOD. Thats why the people accused HIM of making HIMSELF equal with GOD. For the Son of GOD is not equal with his father.

    Jesus His Pre-Eminence came into the earth in the shoes of the Son of GOD, Adam His Eminence, to Bail Mankind, Adam out of hell. And the only way to do that, was for the Systems of the earth to scan HIM out as the Son of GOD so that those systems would release Father Adam, and Mother Eve and take HIM in their place. Thats why HE called GOD "the Father", because it was in the shoes of Adam. Just as its written: There is no thing new under the sun.

    9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

    It was here where GOD revealed one HIS Principals in HIS LOGOS. And they are: Simillitudes and Adumbrations.

    A Similitude is when the life of a certain someone is in the shoes of another, and reveals thingsn about that persons life that was NOT written, or revealed previously.
    An Adumbration is supernatural copy and paste of an event, that will play out again later, for a more important event.

    Jesus His Pre-Eminence played the Similitude of the Son of GOD Adam His Eminence. Thus, everyhing HE did and said in the shoes of the Son of GOD was all that Adam did and said in the earth when he was in the earth. That is why it was in a Garden where HE prayed to the Father, because it was in a Garden, the Garden of Eden, where Adam prayed it. Father Adam was never deceived, he knew what was happening with Mother Eve and the Seraph, and he did what he had to do for Mankind. What is that?

    He sacrificed his celestial life of bliss, to migrate his physical body from the Glorified state, to the mortal state, where procreation is possible. And Mother Eve, willingly gave her womb for the Procreation of the Mankind Race. And this was Revealed in the life of Mary, who is a type of Eve.

    If Father Adam did not willingly sacrifice his celestial life of bliss, then GOD would never have come to be crucified on the cross. This is an adumbration. Another example of An Adumbration, is where Jesus His Pre-Eminence revealed: As it were in the days of Noah, so too shall the coming of the Son of Man be.

    Samson, played the role of the Son of GOD, Adam His Eminence. That is why he experienced three different state: The state before the fall was the state before his hair was cut. The State in the fall was after his hair was cut, and he went blind, to show that Man's eyes were never opened in the fall. Moses who you all are claiming to be a Prophet, lifted up the serpent in his genesis story. Made out like the serpent was telling Man the truth, and that GOD was lying. How can a Prophet get it so wrong? And he even claimed that Mans eyes were opened in the fall, and even said that GOD said: Now man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil. HORRIBLE!

    For GOD said: let us make man in our image, after our likeness and that it was so. So how come they are like HIM now in the fall? LIES! Its not true! Moses got alot wrong.

    So Looking into Samson's story, he went blind after his hair was cut, and he lost his strength. Then as his hair was growing back, his strength returned. This is a revelation about the Fall of man.
    Job, which is not speaking of a real person exactly, but is an allegory about the fall of Man. And the Proof is, that GOD boasted about him saying:

    And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

    And the next thing that happened, was three calamities that happened to jobs family and house. Then look at Matthew. Where GOD boasted about Jesus His Pre-Eminence, and then next thing that happened, was HE was taken (which is wrong) into the wilderness where he was tempted three times.

    King David is in the shoes of the Son of GOD Adam. Saul kish was in the similitudes of lucifer. Lucifer was the highest ranking officer before the emergence of Father Adam. He is a cherub and Cherubim are superior to Seraphim and Arch Angels and Angels. He was chosen by his peeers in Havilah heaven to be their ruler, just as saul kish was chosen by his peers who wanted a king to rule over them, to be their king. King David, represents that Adam, that can represent a Nation by himself, that is the King of Israel forever; a man after GOD's own heart; for he is the Son of GOD.

    Nebuchadnezzar is in the similitude of lucifer, the king of babylon. Pharoah was in the similitude of lucifer, and Egypt in the similitudes of the whole terrestrial earth. The Egyptian garment is the terrestrial body. The Garment of praise, is the transfigured body.

    The entire bible, is written in similitudes and adumbrations. And that is the key to understanding GOD's LOGOS (unalterable blueprint of the plan of salvation). We were supposed to look at that Journey, Moses delivering the children of the kingdom out of egypt. He was defining the body and the body can't lead the body. It is the Spirit that leads the body; and he didn't understand that the Promised land is not in the earth. That is why GOD did not give him a map. That is why he wandered the wilderness for 40 years. Because the Promised Land is Eden, the place of our Father Adam, and it is a heavens world, not in the earth.

    So we were supposed to look deeply into that journey, to understand the plan of salvation. What it means to part the red sea. IT means to shed the blood in the body like you burn fat.

    without the shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness of sins.


    But Moses got this wrong as well. Thats what gave room for the sacrifical system. Look at what they wrote about the tower of Babel.

    “And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly.

    Why was it important to burn the bricks? Because they had attained revelations that were coded about the transfigured body, and they knew enoch transfigured alive. So they were trying to build that body, but they didnt understand it. They thought it meant to build a tower. Because the height of the transfigured is 60ft, not 6ft. And the bricks, was talking about the building blocks of mortalty.

    Parting the red sea was pointing to shedding the blood in the body. Then bringing down the walls of Jericho, which they could not push down.Why was that mentioned? Because it was likened to that of a woman in labor who pushed to give birth. So it was pointing to a rebirth! The reason why they couldn't push the walls down, is because those walls were pointing to the building blocks of mortality. Thus, they were given a code, which is Revelation on how to bring it down which was pointing to the messages of the 7 Angels of the Churches taken all together, (Revelation 1-3) to bring it down. Then the River Jordan, where Baptizm takes place, was pointing to the water in the body that also must be drained from the body. And that is parting the river Jordan as Elijah did in 2 kings 2

    And then crossing river Jordan is the Promised Land, which is where transfiguration takes place. Notice there was 4 places. Gilgal, Bethel, Jericho, Jordan that Elijah traveled to his transfiguration. And Nimrod build 4 cities: Babel, Erec, Accad, and Calneh in the land of Shinar. Nimrod was trying to achieve transfiguration. Then look at the 4 kingdoms of babylon: Why 4? Babylon, Medes Persia, Grecia,and Rome.

    So i explained all this to show you, that the bible is not meant to be read like a newspaper, or an acedemic book, it is Spiritual, and its coded. And it had to be this way, to seal the Gospel from those who would poach it, like Nimrod for example, and all the false preachers in the earth. This is the path to ever lasting life.

    We will know at the last day, when this terrestrial earth packs up, and everyone who is still mortal at that time, will be translated into the ghost world where they will wait for resurrection. While everyone that located Elijah, and followed him, and put on immortality in life; those who put on the whole Armor of GOD; will stand against the spectacular Termination of this Solar, and transfigure in life. If not then, then when you reach the ghost world, you will know.
     
    #53 Yahcubs777, Mar 13, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Which verse?
     
  15. Marcion

    Marcion Self-realisation and Service to the Universe

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    And that is just what they are, religious beliefs started by one or more religious leaders with a limited understanding of the real Jesus.

    Quoting from the New Testament isn't going to help either, because most of those texts were also creatively written by religious followers with a limited understanding of the historical Jesus.

    In the oldest sayings ascribed to Jesus himself (so not one of those put into his mouth later on), Jesus says that he is 'one with his Father' (God) and that his direct followers are better off than the prophets were because those prophets had not met Jesus.

    So, the frame created by Islam and the one created by Bahai are religious frames that suit their ideology, it supports their claim to superiority.
    A similar thing was done by Christian bishops when they created the frame that they were the inheritors of the apostles who supposedly were the companions of Jesus.
    In fact the whole idea that Christianity was started by apostles followed by the authority of the bishops is a Christian myth.

    If you join such a religion you mostly accept the frame as well.
    Even my tantra-yoga path has a frame of its own. It is based only on the authority of the founder because we have no way to check its thruth (just like with those of the apostles and prophets).
     
    #55 Marcion, Mar 13, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  16. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    If you realize that everything that exists is a manifestation of God, all you need to do it go about your day, folding the laundry and chopping the wood, knowing that everything, including your dreams and dreamless states when you sleep is God.

    You do realize that thinking about God is focusing on your mental activities, rather than upon God? Maybe this was a test, as it's not possible to literally "think" 24/7, considering in dreamless sleep, you don't have active thoughts.
     
  17. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Wise people use checks and balances to verify claims. Unwise people ignore those, and actively distrust any claims other than the person that they admire making them. Additionally, lying non-stop, evading the law, claiming any accusation against them is false, etc, etc., demonstrates not a person who believes in truth, beauty, and goodness, or God, but a deceiver.

    You call that verse idiotic, but it serves the wise, while the fools just make excuses for their lack of wisdom.
     
  18. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Of course I understand:). Hence I also wrote the below short, but important line in the text you quoted. Thinking 24/7 about God means not think about anything but God. Not thinking at all is also fine. So, if you do not think 24/7 at all (also not about God) still means that you made it. Manage this with Maha Shivaratri is said to give you liberation.
     
  19. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Wise people don't need that verse. They already know about liars and are already critical people. That's what makes them wise in the first place. They have critical thnkin skills, some life experience and knowledge. Preaching to the wise something they already know and do is as useless as teaching arithmetic to people doing their master thesis in physics.
     
  20. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    A few points here, first, while critical thinking is of course necessary, even liars can mount a fairly cohesive argument that unless you are really well-informed, it may appear to follow the rules of logic and should ostensibly therefore be trusted. When it comes to obvious lies, like saying the election was stolen, when every single court case brought forward was independently and repeatedly found to be baseless and without any support whatsoever, is easy. It doesn't take a super-sharp critical thinker to see the obvious and trust, yes, those claiming this without backing it up with facts, are liars.

    But when it comes to this verse, talking about spiritual deceptions, (as opposed to just general big lies like claiming election fraud without any proofs of it), the issue requires more than just a critical analysis of the mind. It requires seeing if their behaviors match their words. In the case of what we see from fundamentalists in faith, "by their fruits you shall know them", is sage advice. It's not about dissecting logic arguments. It's about matching deeds with professions of faith. And that is something, even critical thinking atheists don't get, as they toss out the baby of faith, with the bathwater of ignorance. Discernment, goes beyond critical thinking. Appearances can be deceiving, in other words, and "thinking" people, are easily duped, as it obvious.
     
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