What are your views on Pastors living lavishly?

[Faithofchristian]

I'm only going by what your book claims, here. In truth, I think the entire thing is pure myth, and Jesus as a human, never actually existed.

But sure-- feel free to interpret it however you like. Isn't that why there are 40,000 different versions of "christian" and counting?

That's only because you have no knowledge or understanding what the Bible is about.
Well it's evidence that you can not tell the difference between a true Christian and the false Christian. Now that is amazing.

 

[Kenny]

Had you started at the beginning of Chapter 7 of Hebrews, you would haved found that Hebrews 7 is about the old testament Tithes.

If you read further, you will see that it is also about the NT. As a matter of fact, the whole of Hebrews is the NT revelation of the shadow of the OT (In Chrtistian understanding)

 

[Kenny]

I have my doubts the ones brought up in the OP do such things.

Most people just talk about what the see withough looking into what they do.

Again, a good example is the mega church Saddleback Church. The accused the pastor of all of those things and they had no idea that he didn't take a salary, paid back all of his salary and lives of the royalty of his books while still giving from that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

yet, to stretch the dollar, we do whatever we have to do. And counseling is very typical for a pastor.

“Typical” and “ethical” are often two very different things, and religious ministers counselling far beyond their training isn’t a benign - or rare - thing.

Wrong application.

It isn't that they do these things "for pay" but rather they get a salary to do those things. Why the twisting of words?

So in your mind, salary isn’t pay?

 

[Kenny]

“Typical” and “ethical” are often two very different things, and religious ministers counselling far beyond their training isn’t a benign - or rare - thing.

Oh... it was quite ethical, I assure you. But, yes, certainly beyond their capacity is wrong. Generally, they should be referred to one who has the capacity,.

Why in your mind did you think it wasn't ethical?

So in your mind, salary isn’t pay?

Well, in your context it sounded like you were saying "I will officiate your ceremony if you pay me or if you give to the church". My position is more like "I will officiate your ceremony because I care". Having a salary gives one the capacity to minister regardless of whether they "pay" for it or not.

What was your understanding?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Most people just talk about what the see withough looking into what they do.

Again, a good example is the mega church Saddleback Church. The accused the pastor of all of those things and they had no idea that he didn't take a salary, paid back all of his salary and lives of the royalty of his books while still giving from that.

And his parsonage allowance?

He was involved in a court case with the IRS in the early 2000s. Religious ministers can receive income from their church in two forms:

- salary, which is taxed as income
- parsonage allowance, which is untaxed

At the time, Warren was claiming a massive parsonage allowance. The IRS denied the portion they thought was too much, and Warren went to court to reverse the decision.

Warren ended up losing his case, which established that the parsonage allowance is limited to the fair rental value of the minister’s residence.

I’ve never heard Warren say that he no longer receives a parsonage allowance; have you?

Every time I’ve heard him talk about it, I’ve only ever heard him say that he doesn’t receive a salary from Saddleback Church; I’ve never heard him say that he receives no money at all from the church. Have you?

 

[Kenny]

And his parsonage allowance?

He was involved in a court case with the IRS in the early 2000s. Religious ministers can receive income from their church in two forms:

- salary, which is taxed as income
- parsonage allowance, which is untaxed

At the time, Warren was claiming a massive parsonage allowance. The IRS denied the portion they thought was too much, and Warren went to court to reverse the decision.

Warren ended up losing his case, which established that the parsonage allowance is limited to the fair rental value of the minister’s residence.

I’ve never heard Warren say that he no longer receives a parsonage allowance; have you?

Every time I’ve heard him talk about it, I’ve only ever heard him say that he doesn’t receive a salary from Saddleback Church; I’ve never heard him say that he receives no money at all from the church. Have you?

Was that before he paid everything back or after.

I wouldn't know since I don't follow his life.

 

[Audie]

I don't support corruption. I am sure there are in many instances. But I am also very aware of mega churches who are changing the world.

Support the good ones, don't support the bad one. Be like a cow, eat the hay and leave the stubble.

All you say has been in support of all of them.

 

[Kenny]

All you say has been in support of all of them.

hardly.

More like people read into it whatever they want to see.

I just don't like people lumping everybody into one box. If one says "mega church" then they authomatically say "corruption".

That's like me saying all atheists are murderers because of Castro, Stalin et al.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

could you please give me supportive evidence?

Google is your friend: Googling charities and the degree to which the income goes to "helpful" programs, is pretty universally bad.

Obviously you aren't involved.

How do you know? Projection, much?

supportive evidence please?

See above. You'd simply dismiss anything I found, as is your habit. Blind-eye blind and all that.

i'm not the one who brought the subject up. I'm just showing how, as compared to 90% of all people of the world, you are filthy rich.

Right back atcha, Mr Hypocrite.

 

[Kenny]

Google is your friend: Googling charities and the degree to which the income goes to "helpful" programs, is pretty universally bad.

How do you know? Projection, much?

See above. You'd simply dismiss anything I found, as is your habit. Blind-eye blind and all that.

.

I'm sorry, but it is you that have to supply the sites, otherwise it is just your opinion.

Shalom.

 

[Audie]

hardly.

More like people read into it whatever they want to see.

I just don't like people lumping everybody into one box. If one says "mega church" then they authomatically say "corruption".

That's like me saying all atheists are murderers because of Castro, Stalin et al.

Speaking of seeing what you choose to see-
Who here did offer to lump everybody into one box?

 

[Audie]

I'm sorry, but it is you that have to supply the sites, otherwise it is just your opinion.

Shalom.

Maybe you just do not want to know?

 

[metis]

Frankly, I think they all should take a vow of poverty, much like I did when I said "I do", and then be given a stipend to live on as well as a place to live. The reason is to find people who are "in it" for the faith, not the money.

 

[Kenny]

Speaking of seeing what you choose to see-
Who here did offer to lump everybody into one box?

To be honest, you provided a great question and I wanted to double check because you may have been right.

Priests, pastors, or any clergy do not need a salary and for what? What is work in ministry that requires them to get paid for speaking what ought to be free such as speaking on the gospel? Why should someone in the clergy get paid for the gospel? I do not think ministers should get paid via parishioners money, that should go to the upkeep of the facility and any necessary items that help with the actual church. If clergy wants to have a wage they need to get a damn job, not use the donations of parishioners' money.

Maybe I misinterpeted it, but doesn't this sound like all ministers are misusing donations and are lazy?

If I am wrong, I am willing to back down.

 

[Kenny]

Maybe you just do not want to know?

At this point, he had made so many charges I figured I would use what other people say to me. I don't think he really has studied this through.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

yet, to stretch the dollar, we do whatever we have to do. And counseling is very typical for a pastor.

The majority of whom have zero actual formal training in said "counseling".

Which leads to lots of unpleasantness, such as a rise in unwed teen mothers.... highest among the evangelical christians, by the way.

But sure.... let's go with that.

 

[Kenny]

The majority of whom have zero actual formal training in said "counseling".

Which leads to lots of unpleasantness, such as a rise in unwed teen mothers.... highest among the evangelical christians, by the way.

But sure.... let's go with that.

could you please give me supportive evidence?

 

[Audie]

At this point, he had made so many charges I figured I would use what other people say to me. I don't think he really has studied this through.

And that is why you dont study, dont want to know?

 

[Audie]

To be honest, you provided a great question and I wanted to double check because you may have been right.



Maybe I misinterpeted it, but doesn't this sound like all ministers are misusing donations and are lazy?

If I am wrong, I am willing to back down.

Not really. In the event, pastors of tiny churches are not in a positoin
to make megabux.