What are your views on Pastors living lavishly?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Really? And just how do you think they are suppose to live? Why should you get a salary?

They could get a real job. Seriously.

I know a number of people whose passion - or even calling, if you want to look at things in those terms - is auto racing. They breathe it; it's all they want to do... but there are way more people who want to be professional race car drivers than the market for rac car drivers will bear.

So instead, they work real jobs, work on their cars themselves in the evening, and pay to go racing out of their own pocket.

There's no rule that says you have to be able to pay your mortgage with the thing you feel called to do. If you care enough, you'll do it anyway.

 

[Trackdayguy]

They could get a real job. Seriously.

I know a number of people whose passion - or even calling, if you want to look at things in those terms - is auto racing. They breathe it; it's all they want to do... but there are way more people who want to be professional race car drivers than the market for rac car drivers will bear.

So instead, they work real jobs, work on their cars themselves in the evening, and pay to go racing out of their own pocket.

There's no rule that says you have to be able to pay your mortgage with the thing you feel called to do. If you care enough, you'll do it anyway.

Although there is some truth in what you say and as a Race Car Driver I would love to get paid. I think the difference is my sport is all about me, as being a minister is I would hope about serving others. So im not sure the 2 can be compared.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I appreciate that you feel it's your business, so can I assume you've taken up your concerns with the authorities or are we all just into gossip and slander.

The authorities won't do anything. John Oliver even tried to take the whole "give me money so god can give you more" as far as he could to provoke a legal response, and it never happened. It's called "seeding" or "seed donations," or something like that, and Oliver called his own faux church off when people started sending in vials of their own semen seeds. It was very absurd and ridiculous what he did, but none of it illegal because of "freedom of religion."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Although there is some truth in what you say and as a Race Car Driver I would love to get paid. I think the difference is my sport is all about me, as being a minister is I would hope about serving others. So im not sure the 2 can be compared.

I question how much “serving others” a typical minister actually does, but regardless, I also know many people who work full-time jobs that they use to pay for the volunteer work they do on weekends.

Not being able to pay your mortgage with a passion that involves real service to others isn’t exactly rare either.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I appreciate that you feel it's your business, so can I assume you've taken up your concerns with the authorities or are we all just into gossip and slander.

Here is one of the segments Oliver did about it:

 

[Trackdayguy]

I question how much “serving others” a typical minister actually does, but regardless, I also know many people who work full-time jobs that they use to pay for the volunteer work they do on weekends.

Not being able to pay your mortgage with a passion that involves real service to others isn’t exactly rare either.

That's because these Pastors are professionals. Sadly NOT mentioned in the Bible.

Maybe it should be legislated that Pastors are all volunteers, NO SALARY

 

[dianaiad]

First off I am a believer, I just do not believe as you do. Second, whether a person is "high up" or not, religion is not a business. Was Jesus paid? Was Muhammad, Moses, Noah, or all the other Abrahamic prophets paid?

Jesus was supported by His followers, and so were His apostles. Someone ELSE fed and clothed them so that they could 'spread the gospel for free."

.............and I can't BELIEVE that I'm defending this, given that the leaders of my own faith are NOT paid and have to support themselves, but hey. Fair is fair here.

Pastors and preachers who devote all their time to the congregation they are 'in charge of" eat, wear clothes, have to sleep somewhere, have to pay the bills just like you or I do. Even we Mormons understand that when one gets to the level of having to devote ALL one's time to the church, then someone ELSE has to handle those expenses. For us, that point shows up at the 'General Authority" level; perhaps two or three hundred people out of 14 million get stipends? Whatever. Even at that level a good many of those people use their own money and refuse the stipend.

The problem here is that some people confuse the Creflo Dollars of the world with the truly altruistic and humble religious leaders who do their very best and spend all their time doing what they feel called to do.

If we are to emulate heroes of the text then we must also bear the responsibility of teaching the gospels for free. The only need for money in any religious institution is the upkeep of the facility. If I'm a member of a congregation I refuse to fund the lifestyle of any minister. If a minister needs a supplemental income then get a damn job don't use my money to go to the Gucci store to buy $5,000 belts.

OK. Don't belong to such a congregation. Your choice. I wouldn't belong to such a group, either.

However, with the system I'm in, if a local Bishop showed up in a $5,000 Gucci belt, I'd know one thing and wonder another: I'd know the church didn't pay for it, he did, and oh, brother, I wonder if I could sell him some of my father's Rush Limbaugh ties?

"People like Creflo Dollar and the like are not the norm. They are greedy and all the miserable things one can call them, but they are ALSO not representative of the typical Christian congregation."

Sure, they're not the norm but there are Christians like them that are not on a national platform that do similar things they do...

Yes, and there are religious con-artists in EVERY faith tradition. I don't think there is even one that hasn't been bitten by that nasty bug.

 

[Cacotopia]

If I didn't have a conscience I would start a evangelical church to and reap the rewards off the ignorant masses too.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

It's simply a bad idea for anyone to live like a king, who makes a living by proffering that living a "simple" lifestyle, and giving as much of your expendable income to their establishment (church or not) is the way to go. It is a betrayal of trust, and highly hypocritical. Certainly not something that will be looked on as a positive.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Inspired by the following video:

I placed this in the religious debates section because often times some Christians tend to defend these types of pastors. I do not believe religious organizations ought to get tax breaks nor do I think being a minister ought to be considered a "job" where you get a salary. This man and his subsequent spending are the reason why many atheists think people of "faith" are very gullible and ignorant because people give away their money without questioning where it will go. It is one thing to pay tithes out of the kindness of your heart and with good intent, it is another to pay tithes unquestionably and not seeing any progress in the congregation to which one attends.

Do you a comment regarding the tens of thousands of pastors and staff in the US alone who love extremely sacrificially to serve in the gospel, full time?

 

[Audie]

I appreciate that you feel it's your business, so can I assume you've taken up your concerns with the authorities or are we all just into gossip and slander.

If you think the abuses dont exist, and that to mention it is slander, fine.

what-evs.

 

[Audie]

Do you a comment regarding the tens of thousands of pastors and staff in the US alone who love extremely sacrificially to serve in the gospel, full time?

It is terrif that there are so many such people.
The topic is the bad apples of which there are plenty also.

Do you wish to distract from that uncomfy fact?

 

[Audie]

I think we need to be careful who we judge, its bad karma.

Sure!

Judge not lest thou be judged
Eat not lest thou be eaten
Take not lest thou be taken
Go not lest thou be gone

Of course, what you are suggesting is to do nothing in the face of
evil, for purely selfish reasons.

 

[Kenny]

Priests, pastors, or any clergy do not need a salary and for what? What is work in ministry that requires them to get paid for speaking what ought to be free such as speaking on the gospel? Why should someone in the clergy get paid for the gospel? I do not think ministers should get paid via parishioners money, that should go to the upkeep of the facility and any necessary items that help with the actual church. If clergy wants to have a wage they need to get a damn job, not use the donations of parishioners' money.

Well, I suppose you can have your opinion. Personally speaking, I don't think you should be paid either.

However, it is quite hard to do pre-marital counseling, post marital counseling, officiating marriages, funerals, hospital visitations, prison visitations, maintenance, message preparations, vacation Bible schools, Bible University (accredited), accounting, baptism, serve as an architect, construction worker, general contractor, etc etc and do it effectively without a salary.

Funny that you wouldn't see that as a paid job.

Not really, because I'm not idiotic enough to give these pimp pastors my money like some of these simple minded Christians. Why does a pastor need a top of the line jet? Why can't a pastor fly coach like the rest of us?

You would have to ask them... I don't have one.

Me thinks you have made asinine statements and lack the ability to defend why these pastors need a 2 million dollar home, a limo, and Gucci clothes...

I'm not supporting their decisions... however, I don't know why you have a 150,000 dollar home, two cars, 3 TV's, internet, computer and a up to date phone, a washing machine, dryer and running water and elecricity while people in Honduras are living mouth to mouth, in dirt homes and have to carry their dirty clothes on their heads, no electric and have a donkey for transportation as they work with a machette cutting wood or clearing fields.

It is starting to sound like you have a money problem to me.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Why is it any of our business ?

They don't pay taxes on their wealth, but they enjoy the protection and amenities that taxes support.

Such as roads, public schools (so that the population isn't uneducated), police, fire and other useful things.

They also enjoy the fruits of a tax-based society (such as relatively inexpensive electricity and other utilities, not possible without tax-supported regulations) without contributing anything really useful...

 

[Kenny]

They don't pay taxes on their wealth, but they enjoy the protection and amenities that taxes support.

Such as roads, public schools (so that the population isn't uneducated), police, fire and other useful things.

They also enjoy the fruits of a tax-based society (such as relatively inexpensive electricity and other utilities, not possible without tax-supported regulations) without contributing anything really useful...

And yet these people give crisis intervention, stop riots, offer free help and help communities inprove the living conditions. They get people off the streets, stop suicides and make productive people that the community benefits from. They provide drug rehab, rescue people from sex slavery, offer food for the hungry and so much more. Like support public schools with volunteerism and gifts, support police with counseling, are there when a hurricane passes through et al.

Hmmmmm.... maybe they give more than what taxes would have provided since the government notoriously misuse money.

I wonder how much help you provide? Maybe we should double tax you to make up for your lack.

 

[Trackdayguy]

And yet these people give crisis intervention, stop riots, offer free help and help communities inprove the living conditions. They get people off the streets, stop suicides and make productive people that the community benefits from. They provide drug rehab, rescue people from sex slavery, offer food for the hungry and so much more. Like support public schools with volunteerism and gifts, support police with counseling, are there when a hurricane passes through et al.

Hmmmmm.... maybe they give more than what taxes would have provided since the government notoriously misuse money.

I wonder how much help you provide? Maybe we should double tax you to make up for your lack.

Some good valid points. I think any worker is worth a wage, I think you'll find that many of the comments don't come objecting to people earning a decent and fair wage, I would suspect they come from people who have been hurt and are angry.

There is always going to be abuse and people who milk the system. Its always sad to hear when someone has been killed by a drunk driver, but it doesn't mean that all cars and alcoholic drink is bad.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

And yet these people give crisis intervention, stop riots, offer free help and help communities inprove the living conditions.

Really? At what cost? 10 cents on the dollar? Less? The FACT is, the majority of these alleged "charities" keep far more than a mere 90% of the income. Of which they spend on purely selfish reasons, such as electricity, salaries, fees, upkeep, printing-propaganda, and similar things.

And the COST to the communities! The LOST TAXES because these massive, expensive TAX HAVENS take up valuable lands that could otherwise be .... PRODUCTIVE.

So, yeah.... "improve" for a certain level of "improvement". Right.

Hmmmmm.... maybe they give more than what taxes would have provided since the government notoriously misuse money.

Yean, maybe they DO NOT. ALL the larger churches are sinkholes of money-- much less than 10 cents on the dollar goes back to the communities. MUCH LESS.

I wonder how much help you provide? Maybe we should double tax you to make up for your lack.

Right back atcha

***edit.***

 

[Faithofchristian]

Inspired by the following video:

I placed this in the religious debates section because often times some Christians tend to defend these types of pastors. I do not believe religious organizations ought to get tax breaks nor do I think being a minister ought to be considered a "job" where you get a salary. This man and his subsequent spending are the reason why many atheists think people of "faith" are very gullible and ignorant because people give away their money without questioning where it will go. It is one thing to pay tithes out of the kindness of your heart and with good intent, it is another to pay tithes unquestionably and not seeing any progress in the congregation to which one attends.

My question is, Where do people get the tithe from, if ask a Christian, they will say, we as Christians don't go by the old testament, But yet the tithe is old testament.
There is no where in the new testament that Gentiles are to tithe.

2nd Corinthians 9:7--"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver"

Therefore, a person doesn't give what they are told to give, But give according as they purposeth in their heart ( who knows better what that person finances are, what they are able to give or not give ?
So let them give. Not grudgingly what they are giving, ( don't give if you are not able, but if you give, don't walk away grudgingly in what you gave, if you can't afford it, then don't give.
Nor of a necessity, ( in other words, don't make it a necessity what you give)
For God loves those, who gives cheerfully gives.

Alot of people are put under pressure in giving the Tithe, I myself have gone to many Christians churches and see how people are told what to give, and many people can't afford it.

Had they any understanding in and about what the Bible does teach about the Tithe, How many people would be upset with their Pastor's Preachers.
It's evidence that Pastor's Preachers will not teach or bring up about 2nd Corinthians 9:7.

If I may ask, If there be any Christians here, did you ever hear your Pastor's Preachers teach
2nd Corinthians 9:7, and why not ?

 

[Trackdayguy]

My question is, Where do people get the tithe from, if ask a Christian, they will say, we as Christians don't go by the old testament, But yet the tithe is old testament.
There is no where in the new testament that Gentiles are to tithe.

2nd Corinthians 9:7--"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver"

Therefore, a person doesn't give what they are told to give, But give according as they purposeth in their heart ( who knows better what that person finances are, what they are able to give or not give ?
So let them give. Not grudgingly what they are giving, ( don't give if you are not able, but if you give, don't walk away grudgingly in what you gave, if you can't afford it, then don't give.
Nor of a necessity, ( in other words, don't make it a necessity what you give)
For God loves those, who gives cheerfully gives.

Its just a bunch of religious rules, based on cherry picking. maybe we should stone our daughters if they get pregnant