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What are your thoughts on the Presidential election?

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Can you clarify this point? It seems to me that our broken two party system offers voters very little choice.
I agree, which is just one reason why I much prefer the parliamentary system over our presidential system. Another reason relates to efficiency plus the greater ability to change leadership through "votes of confidence" in less than four years.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
He's still your choice...not one you can blame on evil corporations.
I'm happy with my choice, thrilled actually. With perhaps 1-3% of Republicans persuadable to vote for Biden and given all the Republican pro-Biden ads and Convention appearances, we're that much closer to having a positive outcome to the most critical election of my life - getting rid of Trump
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'm happy with my choice, thrilled actually. With perhaps 1-3% of Republicans persuadable to vote for Biden and given all the Republican pro-Biden ads and Convention appearances, we're that much closer to having a positive outcome to the most critical election of my life - getting rid of Trump
Congrats on getting the choice you want, the efforts
of big corporations to prevent this notwithstanding.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Congrats on getting the choice you want, the efforts
of big corporations to prevent this notwithstanding.
Stalin was our ally until Hitler was defeated then he became the problem he always was. I'm not going windmill tilting in November.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Stalin was our ally until Hitler was defeated then he became the problem he always was. I'm not going windmill tilting in November.
You're thrilled with Biden, so this seems more
support & affection than was given to Stalin.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
That's interesting. I had the impression that his overall support was ticking up slowly.

Some polls that came out quite recently -- just in the last couple days -- show him ticking upwards with middle age independents, especially males. Although the gap between candidates always tends to close around this stage in the election cycle, I think this could be a matter for concern, depending on whether the uptick is confirmed by future polls.

One of the curious features of this election is that neither Mr. Trump, nor Mr Biden, is running a notably positive campaign, although Mr. Biden is slightly more positive than Mr. Trump, who is wholly negative. Instead of either candidate emphasizing what they are going to do to make people's lives better, both are emphasizing how bad the other person is. If that continues, then perhaps the single most important election in American history will end up being a (negative or reverse) popularity contest. Back to middle school for America.
 
Some polls that came out quite recently -- just in the last couple days -- show him ticking upwards with middle age independents, especially males. Although the gap between candidates always tends to close around this stage in the election cycle, I think this could be a matter for concern, depending on whether the uptick is confirmed by future polls.

One of the curious features of this election is that neither Mr. Trump, nor Mr Biden, is running a notably positive campaign, although Mr. Biden is slightly more positive than Mr. Trump, who is wholly negative. Instead of either candidate emphasizing what they are going to do to make people's lives better, both are emphasizing how bad the other person is. If that continues, then perhaps the single most important election in American history will end up being a (negative or reverse) popularity contest. Back to middle school for America.
Good points. And that’s essentially how people voted in 2016 isn’t it? I recall polls showing neither candidate being “liked” by a majority but both candidates being strongly disliked by large percentages, in 2016.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Good points. And that’s essentially how people voted in 2016 isn’t it? I recall polls showing neither candidate being “liked” by a majority but both candidates being strongly disliked by large percentages, in 2016.

Yeah.

Not happy with how this election is echoing 2016. Not happy at all.

The economy is headed for another Great Depression. We are in the midst of a raging pandemic. And millions of us are fed up with racism, sexism, and xenophobia. Mr. Trump has mismanaged every one of those things. His poll numbers should be in the dust. But he's within striking distance of a second term.
 
Yeah.

Not happy with how this election is echoing 2016. Not happy at all. The economy is headed for another Great Depression. We are in the midst of a raging pandemic. And millions of us are fed up with racism, sexism, and xenophobia. Mr. Trump has mismanaged every one of those things. His poll numbers should be in the dust. But he's within striking distance of a second term.
Indeed. I long ago stopped being mad at Trump or holding him primarily responsible.

I’m mad at his supporters and enablers, comprising about 40% of Americans, and hold them primarily responsible. His race-baiting wouldn’t work if they weren’t racist, and his foolishness wouldn’t work if they weren’t fools.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Indeed. I long ago stopped being mad at Trump or holding him primarily responsible.

I’m mad at his supporters and enablers, comprising about 40% of Americans, and hold them primarily responsible. His race-baiting wouldn’t work if they weren’t racist, and his foolishness wouldn’t work if they weren’t fools.

I'm with you on this. While I can see how many of his supporters in 2016 were responding to his then economic populism and their legitimate anger at being ignored and despised by the Washington establishment, anyone still clinging to Mr. Trump in 2020 most likely harbors unsavory motivations. Either that, or they are seriously misinformed.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Good old Uncle Joe (Stalin)?

I heard Uncle Joe is moving kinda slow at the Junction.

3d2ce5dec477c0d9fe4c33dfd4bc2e77.jpg
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm feeling existential dread towards the prospect of being bombarded with coverage of the election.
*Knocks on Augustus' door*

HAVE YOU HEARD THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT THE ELECTION?!?!?!?





Me neither.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
America is not Germany. Germany had a history of monarchism and rigid obedience to authority. People who are conditioned to readily give an oath to a king or a kaiser would have no problem giving an oath to a fuhrer.
You mean like the pledge of allegiance?
What’s the saying? Fascism will come to America carrying a bible and wrapped in a flag?

Forgive me, but to an outsider perspective, America doesn’t seem all that against authority in the slightest. It just postures as such.
Except for Anarchists and anti fascists, I suppose. And possibly @Revoltingest but apparently he’s the definition of Satan so.

Then again perhaps my mind has been poisoned by the myriad of American documentaries about fascists through the years :shrug:
 
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Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
You mean like the pledge of allegiance?
What’s the saying? Fascism will come to America carrying a bible and wrapped in a flag?

Forgive me, but to an outsider perspective, America doesn’t seem all that against authority in the slightest. It just postures as such.
Except for Anarchists and anti fascists, I suppose. And possibly @Revoltingest but apparently he’s the definition of Satan so.

Then again perhaps my mind has been poisoned by the myriad of American documentaries about fascists through the years :shrug:

Regarding the Pledge of Allegiance, I would still argue that there's a distinct difference between an oath to a flag or the Constitution, as opposed to an oath to obey a human being no matter what. We never really had the kind of rigid, hierarchical order that existed in the monarchies and former monarchies of Europe.

We never really wanted that kind of society in America. Even the president wasn't really supposed to be as powerful as that office later became. We didn't want a permanent military establishment, although there was a drive towards expansionism just the same. During the 19th century, that was probably as close to the "Third Reich" as America got, although even that was quite different than what happened in Germany. We managed to finagle the Louisiana Territory from Napoleon, but our attempted Anschluss with Canada in the War of 1812 failed. But at least we got The Star Spangled Banner from that war. The rest of the century was dominated by expansionism, with an interruption caused by the Civil War, which in some ways might have also had certain fascistic elements, both in the Union and Confederacy.

But the overriding theme in the U.S. has been more one of commerce, capitalism, and making money. Some people might refer to America as "imperialist," which shares a good deal of overlap with fascism, but it's not really the same thing. Moreover, technically, America wasn't really imperialist since our government is a republic, and our "imperialism" is more of a covert one, using proxies and puppet governments to rule over our "empire." But even that's starting to crumble.

It's probably something more akin to high-level international piracy and mobsterism masquerading as some kind of "legitimate" democratic-republican government. Political machines, smoke-filled rooms, all kinds of corrupt shenanigans, dirty tricks, back-stabbers, shady deals - but no one is ever really completely "loyal" to any individual. Even with Trump, he seems to have a lot of people fall out who used to be part of his administration.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Regarding the Pledge of Allegiance, I would still argue that there's a distinct difference between an oath to a flag or the Constitution, as opposed to an oath to obey a human being no matter what. We never really had the kind of rigid, hierarchical order that existed in the monarchies and former monarchies of Europe.

We never really wanted that kind of society in America. Even the president wasn't really supposed to be as powerful as that office later became. We didn't want a permanent military establishment, although there was a drive towards expansionism just the same. During the 19th century, that was probably as close to the "Third Reich" as America got, although even that was quite different than what happened in Germany. We managed to finagle the Louisiana Territory from Napoleon, but our attempted Anschluss with Canada in the War of 1812 failed. But at least we got The Star Spangled Banner from that war. The rest of the century was dominated by expansionism, with an interruption caused by the Civil War, which in some ways might have also had certain fascistic elements, both in the Union and Confederacy.

But the overriding theme in the U.S. has been more one of commerce, capitalism, and making money. Some people might refer to America as "imperialist," which shares a good deal of overlap with fascism, but it's not really the same thing. Moreover, technically, America wasn't really imperialist since our government is a republic, and our "imperialism" is more of a covert one, using proxies and puppet governments to rule over our "empire." But even that's starting to crumble.

It's probably something more akin to high-level international piracy and mobsterism masquerading as some kind of "legitimate" democratic-republican government. Political machines, smoke-filled rooms, all kinds of corrupt shenanigans, dirty tricks, back-stabbers, shady deals - but no one is ever really completely "loyal" to any individual. Even with Trump, he seems to have a lot of people fall out who used to be part of his administration.
I mean that’s fair. But didn’t you recently agree that assuming that people can’t be susceptible to the type of rhetoric Hitler famously espoused (in reference to how the Nazis are taught in the US specifically) is pretty naive?
We are all susceptible to fascist propaganda.
I consider Trump to be at least Fascist friendly, as I do many of my own politicians. Specifically from our Liberal (right wing) party. In fact from where I stand both US political parties seem rather Right Wing. I’m from Australiastan for clarification.
Though I do swing rather left these days.
That said I’ve been hearing for years how the Overton Window has shifted sharply right in Americanstan in particular.

(please forgive the sloppy phrasing. I’m rather more drunk these days)
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think the OP question is both fair and highly pertinent. I have read several pieces in recent days, in reputable newspapers, mentioning out that Biden seems to have a tendency to forget words. And he is 77, so it is not a ridiculous question.

I, like most of the world outside the USA, am desperate to see him beat Trump, but I have to say I am worried that he may be come across as a bit too doddery for the job. He himself seems to recognise he needs an energetic VP who is known to be a capable administrator.
Its funny on how the public can pick a president but not the vice president.

I suspect Harris will actually be running the country as a back door commander and chief with Biden playing the defacto front man.
 
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