What’s with the Ayn Rand hate?

[SomeRandom]

So miss Rand is almost infamous as the “oh good god no” philosopher online. Sure she has her fans, obviously. But I’ve always seen her spoken of in terms of immature philosophy many a time.

Now I read I think Atlas Shrugged when I was like 15/16. And I remember liking it. Though I guess I also liked emo music at the time. So perhaps not the best barometer of taste there.

I know I should read her works to figure this out on my own. But guys I’m inundated with like 50 readathons at any given time. *insert whiney meme here*
So can my more philosophically minded RFers help me out a little?
What’s the beef with Ayn Rand and her philosophy, specifically?

Or are you a fan and willing to defend her works?

I’m always happy for the help.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

While I admire her focus on reason, I find her rejection of altruism and belief that laissez-faire capitalism is the best form of economic system inconsistent with human nature.

 

[pearl]

Its enough for me that Ayn Rand was a model for capitalism followed and admired by Paul Ryan.

 

[shunyadragon]

So miss Rand is almost infamous as the “oh good god no” philosopher online. Sure she has her fans, obviously. But I’ve always seen her spoken of in terms of immature philosophy many a time.

Now I read I think Atlas Shrugged when I was like 15/16. And I remember liking it. Though I guess I also liked emo music at the time. So perhaps not the best barometer of taste there.

I know I should read her works to figure this out on my own. But guys I’m inundated with like 50 readathons at any given time. *insert whiney meme here*
So can my more philosophically minded RFers help me out a little?
What’s the beef with Ayn Rand and her philosophy, specifically?

Or are you a fan and willing to defend her works?

I’m always happy for the help.

I do not hate, nor endorse Ayn Rand and her writings. I just do not consider them significant in understanding the nature of being human.

 

[shmogie]

So miss Rand is almost infamous as the “oh good god no” philosopher online. Sure she has her fans, obviously. But I’ve always seen her spoken of in terms of immature philosophy many a time.

Now I read I think Atlas Shrugged when I was like 15/16. And I remember liking it. Though I guess I also liked emo music at the time. So perhaps not the best barometer of taste there.

I know I should read her works to figure this out on my own. But guys I’m inundated with like 50 readathons at any given time. *insert whiney meme here*
So can my more philosophically minded RFers help me out a little?
What’s the beef with Ayn Rand and her philosophy, specifically?

Or are you a fan and willing to defend her works?

I’m always happy for the help.

It isn`t about philosophy, it is about politics, like everything today.

The radical haters of capitalism, from

 

[shmogie]

So miss Rand is almost infamous as the “oh good god no” philosopher online. Sure she has her fans, obviously. But I’ve always seen her spoken of in terms of immature philosophy many a time.

Now I read I think Atlas Shrugged when I was like 15/16. And I remember liking it. Though I guess I also liked emo music at the time. So perhaps not the best barometer of taste there.

I know I should read her works to figure this out on my own. But guys I’m inundated with like 50 readathons at any given time. *insert whiney meme here*
So can my more philosophically minded RFers help me out a little?
What’s the beef with Ayn Rand and her philosophy, specifically?

Or are you a fan and willing to defend her works?

I’m always happy for the help.

Sorry, MS hands hit the wrong button. Those who have benefited from capitalism hate it.

 

[PureX]

She stupidly tried to justify selfishness as a social virtue, as do the many modern day republican greed-mongers that tout her (and Milton Friedman) as their philosophical gurus.

 

[Ponder This]

Do people have specific objections to statements made by Ayn Rand? Or just blanket dislike for her as a person?

“My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.” — Ayn Rand
AynRand.org​

 

[Revoltingest]

So miss Rand is almost infamous as the “oh good god no” philosopher online. Sure she has her fans, obviously. But I’ve always seen her spoken of in terms of immature philosophy many a time.

Now I read I think Atlas Shrugged when I was like 15/16. And I remember liking it. Though I guess I also liked emo music at the time. So perhaps not the best barometer of taste there.

I know I should read her works to figure this out on my own. But guys I’m inundated with like 50 readathons at any given time. *insert whiney meme here*
So can my more philosophically minded RFers help me out a little?
What’s the beef with Ayn Rand and her philosophy, specifically?

Or are you a fan and willing to defend her works?

I’m always happy for the help.

What I notice is that the hatred is more than politics.
The major conflict appears to stem from her advocacy for individuality,
ie, individual rights & obligations as opposed to group rights & obligations.
Secondarily, religious types object to her advocacy for atheism & distrust
of religion. (Reagan joked that it's too bad she's an atheist.)

Dang...I just noticed that she should engender enmity from 90% of people.
Now I wonder why the hatred isn't more than is seen.

Anyway, I'll defend her work as interesting & having merit, imperfections
notwithstanding. I recall its being eye opening half a century ago...it went
against popular thought of the day, ie, that we should each & all submit to
the greater good & wisdom of authority.
It will appeal to independent types / individualists / fire breathing capitalists.
It will inflame groupthink / social contract / socialist / commie types.
Never the twain shall meet, eh.

 

[PureX]

Do people have specific objections to statements made by Ayn Rand? Or just blanket dislike for her as a person?

“My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.” — Ayn Rand
AynRand.org​

What an idiot she was! She thinks that selfishness is man's "noble purpose", that gaining the objectives of one's selfish desires is "productive achievement", and that human reason is an absolute! It's hard to comprehend that degree of blinding stupidity.

And yet there are millions of people in this country and in the world that actually believe this nonsense.

 

[Revoltingest]

What an idiot she was! She thinks that selfishness is man's "noble purpose", that gaining the objectives of one's selfish desires is "productive achievement", and that human reason is an absolute! It's hard to comprehend that degree of blinding stupidity.

And yet there are millions of people in this country and in the world that actually believe this nonsense.

Stop beating around the bush,
& tell us how you really feel.

Btw, the major shortcoming I found with her work was the sense of absolute truth.
As I see things, it's all about personal preferences.
If one leans towards rugged individualism, she will be interesting.
But ain't nobody gots "The Truth".

 

[PureX]

Stop beating around the bush,
& tell us how you really feel.

It's a recipe for unending suffering and chaos. And the supporting evidence is all around us. I would give her credit for pointing this out to us, but that's not what she was trying to do. She was trying to advance it as a social ideal. It would be like congratulating a bank robber for showing the positive (selfish) attributes of robbing banks.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's a recipe for unending suffering and chaos. And the supporting evidence is all around us.

The greatest suffering has historically been in the most
un-Randian countries, ie, the socialist &/or fascist ones.
As for "chaos", I happen to like it.
Sameness & too much security are worse.

But depending upon one's goals & values, USSR, PRC,
DPNK, & Cuba might be seen as good & exemplary.

 

[PureX]

The greatest suffering has historically been in the most
un-Randian countries, ie, the socialist &/or fascist ones.
As for "chaos", I happen to like it.
Sameness & too much security are worse.

But depending upon one's goals & values, USSR, PRC,
DPNK, & Cuba might be seen as good & exemplary.

Get back to me when you understand what socialism, and fascism, and totalitarianism actually are, as opposed to what liars, cheats, conmen, and despots proclaim their criminal enterprises to be. The issue here is self-centered competition (a Randian "virtue") vs. collectively-centered cooperation (how all positive human enterprise actually happens). Some self-centered despot forcing everyone else to indulge his "happiness" is not collectively-centered cooperation. Which is why it rarely results in anything other than an increase in suffering and chaotic collapse. And although mislabeling things is a very common tactic of liars, cheats, criminals, and would-be dictators, it doesn't actually change the reality.

 

[Revoltingest]

Get back to me when you understand what socialism, and fascism, and totalitarianism actually are, as opposed to what liars, cheats, conmen, and despots proclaim their criminal enterprises to be. The issue here is self-centered competition (a Randian "virtue") vs. collectively-centered cooperation (how all positive human enterprise actually happens). Some self-centered despot forcing everyone else to indulge his "happiness" is not collectively-centered cooperation. Which is why it rarely results in anything other than an increase in suffering and chaotic collapse.

I'm afraid that the no-true-Scotsman thingie will have
us never agreeing that socialist countries are socialist.

 

[PureX]

I'm afraid that the no-true-Scotsman thingie will have
us never agreeing that socialist countries are socialist.

Then stop misusing the term. Stop using it all together. Because the term has little to do with the actual methodology being discussed.

 

[Revoltingest]

Then stop misusing the term. Stop using it all together. Because the term has little to do with the actual methodology being discussed.

I use the standard dictionary definition.
Under it, Denmark is capitalist, & USSR is socialist.
I know it hurts, but admit it you must.

 

[PureX]

I use the standard dictionary definition.
Under it, Denmark is capitalist, & USSR is socialist.
I know it hurts, but admit it you must.

And you're still trying to muddy up the discussion with semantic side-bars. Dictionaries record how people use, and very often abuse words. You don't get credit because your ignorance is shared by others.

Please stick to the subject under discussion.

 

[Howard Is]

Btw, the major shortcoming I found with her work was the sense of absolute truth.
As I see things, it's all about personal preferences.
If one leans towards rugged individualism, she will be interesting.
But ain't nobody gots "The Truth".

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it until there is no objection - all fanatics should be put to the sword.

 

[Howard Is]

I found Ayn Rand challenging, informative and thought provoking whenI read a few of her books in my early twenties.

Particularly The Romantic Manifesto and Capitalism : The Unknown Ideal.

She helped me become a critical thinker, and surprised me with some of her analyses, despite my much more left leaning politics and humanism.