Westboro Baptist Church

[darkendless]

We got news of these Nutjobs in Australia dancing around with signs saying "god hates ****." How is this church still in practice. These people are as bad as Islamic extremists minus the killing, over here they tell women to put clothes on and assault people who they do not like the look of. I thought your government was trying to stamp out this kind of extremism.... oh wait, because its Christian or one of its denominations they get special treatment.

 

[lilithu]

We got news of these Nutjobs in Australia dancing around with signs saying "god hates ****." How is this church still in practice. These people are as bad as Islamic extremists minus the killing, over here they tell women to put clothes on and assault people who they do not like the look of. I thought your government was trying to stamp out this kind of extremism.... oh wait, because its Christian or one of its denominations they get special treatment.

NO, it's because we believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

oh wait, because its Christian or one of its denominations they get special treatment.

Nope, we let everybody have their say. It's the price of freedom.

 

[Riverwolf]

We got news of these Nutjobs in Australia dancing around with signs saying "god hates ****." How is this church still in practice. These people are as bad as Islamic extremists minus the killing, over here they tell women to put clothes on and assault people who they do not like the look of. I thought your government was trying to stamp out this kind of extremism.... oh wait, because its Christian or one of its denominations they get special treatment.

It's because-

Oh, wait. Everybody already answered that. ^_^

But I'll supplement with this saying (don't know who said it originally): "I don't agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

 

[Elessar]

How about the Holy Roman Empire?

Actually, the Holy Roman Empire is a very poor example. There was little national control over religion. Prostitution was legal, adultery and homosexuality were ignored despite their illegality. Persecution by the Holy Roman Empire came only to those who refused to accept the established system - that would be, people who did not pay lip service to the Papacy and Emperor. There was little, if any, religious fanaticism in that state's system (there were religious fanatics in the Empire, but they were generally as suppressed as heretics; only during certain periods, such the Crusades, were they allowed any power at all, and only outside of Europe)

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Actually, the Holy Roman Empire is a very poor example.

I see your point but what about the Inquisition?

 

[Elessar]

I see your point but what about the Inquisition?

That was Spain, not the Holy Roman Empire (see Python (Monty), Ltd., "Spanish Inquisition, Part II": "Oh, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition" "NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!") . In fact, Spain is a much better example than the Holy Roman Empire for what you're driving at.

EDIT: Granted, Spain and the Holy Roman Empire shared the same monarch for decades around the time of the Inquisition's establishment, and the same ruling family for centuries thereafter, but that does not make the two "nations" (I use the term very loosely; neither was unified in any sense until the 19th century) interchangeable

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I thought the Inquisition, though Spainish, operated under the direction of the Pope and that would qualify as the HRE, at least religiously. I can see your point too though. Thanks.

 

[Elessar]

I thought the Inquisition, though Spainish, operated under the direction of the Pope and that would qualify as the HRE, at least religiously. I can see your point too though. Thanks.

Nah; the Papacy and Holy Roman Empire were disassociated, politically, when the Pope stopped selecting the Holy Roman Emperor. By the time of the Inquisition, the Empire was merely a culturally knit confederation of states which were traditionally under the jurisdiction of a single, elected Emperor, who had some limited authority over the German states, and limited responsibility to them. The Emperor's real power, by that time, was in the lands he owned as his own fiefs within and without the Empire, rather than his rule as Emperor. Though the position of Emperor still carried prestige, that's really all it carried. Then, by the 1550s, the Emperor was also the effective ruler of what is today:

Florida, Southwest U.S., Mexico, Central America, South America, Portugal, Spain, central and southern Italy, Austria, Hungary, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, west-central France, England, and Ireland.

 

[darkendless]

NO, it's because we believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

Don't kid yourself, its always conditional based on what you're saying, hence my last sentence.

 

[Storm]

Don't kid yourself, its always conditional based on what you're saying, hence my last sentence.

No, it isn't. Even the KKK is protected, here, and it's not because of popular support. Quite the opposite, in fact. Your last sentence just serves to highlight your ignorance of US culture.

 

[Elessar]

Don't kid yourself, its always conditional based on what you're saying, hence my last sentence.

No, it's not. Unless you directly, clearly, unquestionably advocate a capital offense, or you say something that will clearly, without question, directly cause a clear and present danger to innocent lives (the "Crying fire in a crowded theater" question), then its absolutely legal and you can say whatever you want without government intervention. The government will come after you if you print classified information, but not because printing the information was illegal, but because because you are an accessory to the leaking crime.

Otherwise, there is no regulation of speech or religion in the United States whatsoever - that is, not regulation that stands up in a court of law, and such attempts have been consistently overturned by the courts.

 

[darkendless]

No, it isn't. Even the KKK is protected, here, and it's not because of popular support. Quite the opposite, in fact. Your last sentence just serves to highlight your ignorance of US culture.

What can i say, im a long way away. Im just going by my own experience. Our two countries often skip around hand in hand though. In saying that, what is acceptable on paper, and what is acceptable in a particular society, are often very different. I guess these people are lucky the law protects them. I think it would be interesting if Islamic people posted something similiar, something radical but not death threats. Just out of curiosity.

 

[Elessar]

What can i say, im a long way away. Im just going by my own experience. Our two countries often skip around hand in hand though. In saying that, what is acceptable on paper, and what is acceptable in a particular society, are often very different. I guess these people are lucky the law protects them. I think it would be interesting if Islamic people posted something similiar, something radical but not death threats. Just out of curiosity.

It happens all the time, and its completely legal; in fact, it happens often enough that it doesn't even make the news most of the time. But, unlike in Europe, the vast majority of American Muslims are moderates, unlike in Europe and other western countries, where a good portion (20-30%) tend to be radical, while I'd say that less than 5% of American Muslims are radical, and I doubt it's that high. Islam is, despite all the Islamophobic language coming out of the Republican Party and the government, extremely well tolerated in the United States.

 

[Comicaze247]

What can i say, im a long way away. Im just going by my own experience. Our two countries often skip around hand in hand though. In saying that, what is acceptable on paper, and what is acceptable in a particular society, are often very different. I guess these people are lucky the law protects them. I think it would be interesting if Islamic people posted something similiar, something radical but not death threats. Just out of curiosity.

Yeah, they protest just as much as the Christian fanatics. I see them on campus all the time (though I really wish the Christian ones would protest closer to the Islam protesters, that would be interesting, hehe). The difference with the Muslims (that I see) is that they don't point anybody out and they're much more organized. They have an actual podium they stand behind and make speeches, which are actually very well written. The Christian ones I've seen just yell at people walking by, telling them they're going to hell.

Here's an example of the Christian Fundies from UC Irvine:
YouTube - Christian Preacher Pisses off UCI Student
(I'm the guy standing nest to the idiot. The piece of paper I'm holding up says "I'm with stupid")
YouTube - UCI Crazy People

 

[painted wolf]

the best way to deal with these guys.
Rick Roll'em...

YouTube - Westboro Baptist gets Rick Roll'd

humor over hate!

wa:do

 

[MoonWater]

the best way to deal with these guys.
Rick Roll'em...

YouTube - Westboro Baptist gets Rick Roll'd

humor over hate!

wa:do

Here, here

YouTube - How to **** Off a Hardcore Fundamentalist Christian?

 

[Elessar]

Here, here

YouTube - How to **** Off a Hardcore Fundamentalist Christian?

His video was interesting and pertained to the point; yours was just offensive and off-topic. We're not talking about Christian fundamentalists; we're talking about the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[Storm]

His video was interesting and pertained to the point; yours was just offensive and off-topic. We're not talking about Christian fundamentalists; we're talking about the Westboro Baptist Church.

That's like saying "We're not talking about music; we're talking about rap." The one is a form of the other.

 

[Elessar]

That's like saying "We're not talking about music; we're talking about rap." The one is a form of the other.

I, myself, would rule that a true "Christian fundamentalist" would be focused on someone who actually focused on ALL the fundamentals of their Christ, including caring for the poor.

Westboro Baptist are Christian pseudo-fundamentalists. The video, however, is offensive to those who belong in the former category as well.