We Can't Fix the World, So Now What?

[usfan]

At which point in a humans life do you decide that we are talking about human nature? or do you see human behavior as being the same or different from human nature?

How do you separate human behavior from human nature?

 

[usfan]

So you believe that people can be divided into two camps? That there are good people and then there are bad people?

Of course! By definition!

Us == Good!
Them == Bad!

And so easy, too!

 

[Nimos]

What do you think human nature is and what is it like to you?

That is a nice dodge

There is not a lot I would define as human nature and to me it comes down to what we can say relate to us as a species as a whole, which is innate at birth, not taking into account genetic disorders. So our need to propagate, that we are social altruistic animals etc. Pretty much everything else comes down to human behavior, without going in to many details.

So my initial starting point for human behavior is that we seek to communicate and to create beneficial relationships with humans around us in an attempt to obtain comfort and security. Obvious there is an overlap between human nature and behavior here. As time passes, these behavior are affected by the environment we are broad up in, which makes us change behavior very rapidly and often I think we are not really aware of how our actions and parenting teaches and shape our children's behavior, sometime for the better sometimes for the worse. As they start to get friends, the behaviors between them start to spread as well, as suddenly the parents are not the only authority. Eventually that will cause people to shape individual opinions and behaviors based on all the experiences that they have had and will have. Which can make them behave as you say as evil, egocentric and disgusting ways.

But this is not human nature, as it would be just as much in our nature to behave good, helpful and charitable towards others. So human nature to me, seems to be mixed up with human behavior which depends on how and which values a person have been broad up with, what experiences they have had during their life, obviously as I started by saying, not taking genetic disorders into account, as these can also influence how a person behaves.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

That is a nice dodge

There is not a lot I would define as human nature and to me it comes down to what we can say relate to us as a species as a whole, which is innate at birth, not taking into account genetic disorders. So our need to propagate, that we are social altruistic animals etc. Pretty much everything else comes down to human behavior.

So my initial starting point for human behavior is that we seek to communicate and to create beneficial relationships with humans around us in an attempt to obtain comfort and security. As time passes, these behavior are affected by the environment we are broad up in, which makes us change behavior very rapidly and often I think we are not really aware of how our actions and parenting teaches and shape our children's behavior, sometime for the better sometimes for the worse. As they start to get friends, the behaviors between them start to spread as well, as suddenly the parents are not the only authority. Eventually that will cause people to shape individual opinions and behaviors based on all the experiences that they have had and will have. Which can make them behave as you say as evil, egocentric and disgusting ways.

But this is not human nature, as it would be just as much in our nature to behave good, helpful and charitable towards others. So human nature to me, seems to be mixed up with human behavior which depends on how and which values a person have been broad up with, what experiences they have had during their life, obviously as I started by saying, not taking genetic disorders into account, as these can also influence how a person behaves.

So do you agree with @danieldemol that people can be divided into two different camps of good people and bad people?

 

[Nimos]

So do you agree with @danieldemol that people can be divided into two different camps of good people and bad people?

You need to be more specific with what you mean with good and bad people as it seems to be a subjective opinion.

 

[Enoch07]

We desire control, we desire people conform to our beliefs and we desire that it all goes our way.

Not all.

People like myself do not desire control. If I am in control of, I am also responsible for. Neither of these interest me at all.

I do not desire for people to conform to my beliefs. The world would be bland and boring as hell. In @Estro Felino words "Diversity is beautiful". Despite what most far lefties in the U.S. think Diversity also includes people who you disagree with or don't like.

I do not even desire for all to go my way. Though to add to that last one I will concede I do desire for most to go my way, but not all.

And soon it is our way or the highway and the boots start marching a long as they are been doing throughout history.

Only for the tyrants.

So now what do we do?

We live our lives as best we can and help others when we can. That's the only realistic thing we can do.

Is there anything we can fix?

No, ourselves...maybe and that's hard enough as is, we definitely can't "fix" anyone else. But you realize this with your Socrates quote just a few lines later so you already know this.

But to "know thyself" is to go on a lonely journey into the dark recesses of the self and lay our eyes bare on our own human nature and acknowledge that we are all evil, all egotistical and we are all disgusting. It is a frightening journey.

Once you have stared into the abyss of your own soul, and found it staring back. Not much scares you in this world anymore. But if you can manage this task you will better yourself, if you don't go insane.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

You need to be more specific with what you mean with good and bad people as it seems to be a subjective opinion.

We will use whichever way you define good and evil. So, define away.

 

[Nimos]

We will use whichever way you define good and evil. So, define away.

Good is whatever seems beneficial for one self and what one cares about.
Evil is whatever seems none beneficial for one self and what one cares about.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Not all.

People like myself do not desire control. If I am in control of, I am also responsible for. Neither of these interest me at all.

You never desired to control another person?

 

[danieldemol]

Do believe that the people who make good choices a reasonable degree of the time are better than does who make bad choices enough of the time that you would isolate them?

They are more virtuous in their choices. To an extent I think the justice system - imperfect as it is especially in the US - relies on the reasoning that those who have freedom are more virtuous than those imprisoned.

Do you think they are equal who when presented with similar environments make less virtuous choices?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

They are more virtuous in their choices. To an extent I think the justice system - imperfect as it is especially in the US - relies on the reasoning that those who have freedom are more virtuous than those imprisoned.

Do you think they are equal who when presented with similar environments make less virtuous choices?

So let's say a whole nation is doing something you do not consider virtuous, what would you have us to do with them?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Once you have stared into the abyss of your own soul, and found it staring back. Not much scares you in this world anymore. But if you can manage this task you will better yourself, if you don't go insane.

I did just this. After I did, I developed and grew a dark, morbid sense of humor.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Just about everyone of us can see that this world is full of problem, so much so that some of us think humanity may be at the brink of extinction. We all have our personal catalog of the various problems we believe the world faces, my own personal list of troubles includes: War, famine, poverty, greed, homelessness, sexism, racism, capitalism, YouTube unboxing channels and the Kardashians.

It is in my opinion that the world would be a much better and much friendlier place in we could only solve all these problem. So my mind cooks up plans on how we should deal with these problems, like this guy did:

But is it truly my responsibility to fix all the world's problems? Why in the world do we take it upon ourselves to think that if only we did something, we could fix it? So, it seems to be this wanting to fxi the world is a temptation, a desire that leads us into sin and suffering. We desire control, we desire people conform to our beliefs and we desire that it all goes our way. And soon it is our way or the highway and the boots start marching a long as they are been doing throughout history. And it looks like the best laid plans of mice and men come to naught once again.

So now what do we do? Is there anything we can fix? I can assure you there is somethings can do, particularly we should firstly follow Socrates dictum "Know thyself" and believe one the reason we love to look at the world's problems and center ourselves on fixing them instead of examining our own lives and fixing what is going on inside of us as individuals is because the darkness outside of us seems more easy to deal with, because we have all these messiahs, politicians and others saying they have solution and we are in great company with the other legion of followers.

But to "know thyself" is to go on a lonely journey into the dark recesses of the self and lay our eyes bare on our own human nature and acknowledge that we are all evil, all egotistical and we are all disgusting. It is a frightening journey.

I believe a picture says a thousand words and that true education based upon virtues and good character will be what turns the ship of humanity around for the better.

 

[Enoch07]

You never desired to control another person?

I have before in my younger days. Back before I realized its wrong.

 

[danieldemol]

So let's say a whole nation is doing something you do not consider virtuous, what would you have us to do with them?

To give you the simple answer, it depends on what it is, if it is invasion of another country it should be resisted by force. But it is preferable that such action where possible receives the sanction of the global community.

 

[Enoch07]

I did just this. After I did, I developed and grew a dark, morbid sense of humor.

It's a by product of the process.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I believe a picture says a thousand words and that true education based upon virtues and good character will be what turns the ship of humanity around for the better.

That's a nice sentiment but the truth is behavioral science as shown us that even babies can be biased and we have to teach them not to be.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

To give you the simple answer, it depends on what it is, if it is invasion of another country it should be resisted by force. But it is preferable that such action where possible receives the sanction of the global community.

So you go to war.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why would we have to acknowledge that we are all evil, egotistical and disgusting? That seems to be a negative starting point?

Is there anything negative about acknowledging a basic truth about human nature. Remember what Terrence said.

We are created at the end of darkness and the beginning of light. The light is the potential within us.

The journey starts with bringing the light from our own self and in that way can reflect the light to others.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

So you go to war.

I’m unapologetically not a pacifist, there are people who fight for virtuous reasons, and those who fight for selfish reasons. They are not the same in my opinion.