Was Muhammad a good man?

[Monk Of Reason]

God doesn't ask muslims to do the punishment for homosexuality as the quran shows that such a attitude is diffused among unfaithful nations and God is the only one who may punish one nation by erasing it from existence as he did with people of Lot.

Women were buried alive before Islam and treated badly.

Wars were a military ones,warriors against warriors,the message of Islam was a peaceful one as to stop oppression and wrong attitudes among people but the disbelievers tried to stop the message by force and God sent the permission to Mohammed to fight back and God said that even though that fighting is a bad choice but if needed then it will be the best choice.

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Emotional This Made Our Prophet Cry! YouTube - YouTube

The last sermon of the prophet which have been witnessed by more than a hundred thousand person (men and women)

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The Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon - YouTube

So you are telling me that in the Islamic world there is no repercussion for being homosexual and acting on their homosexuality? That their families treat them with respect and quote the Koran with love and dignity to their sodomite of a child? Or does something different usually occur?

I don't care if women were treated badly prior or after him. I want to know if he promoted a patriarchal viewpoint that viewed women as financially or spiritually weaker than men. In my view it seems overwhelmingly obvious he was. Again you can say "look at the time" and in reality I can't blame him for being sexist back in those days. But I can say that it is a glaring flaw if we was to be a perfect man according to Allah.

War is war. Based on religion. He kills to make peace. There is not a good record of this in history. The religion of Islam in its early days was spread with blood not peace. Though the same is said of Christianity. I'm not playing the game of "lets blame the Muslim" but simply pointing out where I feel that Muhammad was flawed. Though by my morality I feel Allah himself is flawed and immoral. So there may in root be part of the problem.

 

[FearGod]

So you are telling me that in the Islamic world there is no repercussion for being homosexual and acting on their homosexuality? That their families treat them with respect and quote the Koran with love and dignity to their sodomite of a child? Or does something different usually occur?

I don't care if women were treated badly prior or after him. I want to know if he promoted a patriarchal viewpoint that viewed women as financially or spiritually weaker than men. In my view it seems overwhelmingly obvious he was. Again you can say "look at the time" and in reality I can't blame him for being sexist back in those days. But I can say that it is a glaring flaw if we was to be a perfect man according to Allah.

War is war. Based on religion. He kills to make peace. There is not a good record of this in history. The religion of Islam in its early days was spread with blood not peace. Though the same is said of Christianity. I'm not playing the game of "lets blame the Muslim" but simply pointing out where I feel that Muhammad was flawed. Though by my morality I feel Allah himself is flawed and immoral. So there may in root be part of the problem.

Regardless of Islam i see homosexuality as to be a disgusting behavior and an irresponsible act,i can't see it happening in the Islamic nations but i was shocked when i traveled to the Philippines,gays were every where,they walk in a style which mimic the female ones but in ludicrous way,in many occasions they annoyed me a lot by flirting and calling me as pogi,which means handsome.

Women's money is hers,so she is better than men because the money she got is her own,women can be a ruler, she can be a judge but she can't be a whore and Aisha,the wife of the prophet was a leader in one battle,so she can lead a battle and fight side by side with men.

Islam never spread by force, Malaysia is a Muslim country where no warrior had reached it,many people still accepting Islam,did they converted because of the force.

i believe that the propaganda against Islam is just one way to stop it from spreading.

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Islam will dominate The World - Islamization - YouTube

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10 Myths About Islam - YouTube

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Regardless of Islam i see homosexuality as to be a disgusting behavior and an irresponsible act,i can't see it happening in the Islamic nations but i was shocked when i traveled to the Philippines,gays were every where,they walk in a style which mimic the female ones but in ludicrous way,in many occasions they annoyed me a lot by flirting and calling me as pogi,which means handsome.

I have my doubts you would still find homosexuality disgusting if you were not religious. I used to think the same as you. Then when I cast of religion I no longer felt that way.

Women's money is hers,so she is better than men because the money she got is her own,women can be a ruler, she can be a judge but she can't be a whore and Aisha,the wife of the prophet was a leader in one battle,so she can lead a battle and fight side by side with men.

She can't be a whore? why not?

Islam never spread by force,

This is a bold face lie. Though note I didn't say that Islam had ONLY been spread by violence. But to say it has never? That is simply a lie and you cannot believe that.

i believe that the propaganda against Islam is just one way to stop it from spreading.

You are also misguided in this. Well only partially so.

 

[Agnostic75]

Regardless of Islam I see homosexuality as to be a disgusting behavior and an irresponsible act.......

Why is that? Sexual identity is not a choice. Why would you want homosexuals to spend their lives alone, and never enjoy touching, and kissing each other, and never enjoying having sex together.

Research has shown that having sex has significant health benefits, and that long term abstinence has serious health risks.

Why did God cause over 1500 species of animals and birds to practice homosexuality? Why did he need to do that? How did that benefit animals and birds? All bonobo monkeys are bisexual, and experts say that their bisexuality benefits them in various ways.

Why did God create a virus in animals that was transferred by animals to humans, and became called the AIDS virus? How did that benefit animals, and humans?

I was shocked when I travelled to the Philippines, gays were everywhere, they walk in a style which mimic the female ones but in ludicrous ways, on many occasions they annoyed me a lot by flirting and calling me as pogi, which means handsome.

Gays are free to walk like they want to walk. Many of them are not feminine, and are impossible to identity as gays unless they publically say that they are gay.

Do you also criticize lesbians?

Do you oppose nudist colonies?

In some hot, remote jungles of South America, Africa, and Southeast Asia, people do not wear any clothes. Do you object to that?

The following articles show that there are lot of good reasons for people to reject Islam:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Quran

http://3lotus.com/en/Islam/Quran-Not-a-Miracle.htm

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur'an

In your opinion, what is some of the best evidence that God inspired the writing of the Koran?

 

[FearGod]

Why is that? Sexual identity is not a choice. Why would you want homosexuals to spend their lives alone, and never enjoy touching, and kissing each other, and never enjoying having sex together.

Research has shown that having sex has significant health benefits, and that long term abstinence has serious health risks.

Anal sex between gays have a beneficial health benefits and long term abstinence has serious health risks,How that is explained by science ?

Why did God cause over 1500 species of animals and birds to practice homosexuality? Why did he need to do that? How did that benefit animals and birds? All bonobo monkeys are bisexual, and experts say that their bisexuality benefits them in various ways.

Because we are evolved to be better than animals,they don't talk as we do,they don't think as we do,they don't eat as we do and they don't perform sex as we do.

Why did God create a virus in animals that was transferred by animals to humans, and became called the AIDS virus? How did that benefit animals, and humans?

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Never does sexual perversion become widespread and publicly known in certain people without them being overtaken by plague and disease that never happened to their ancestors who came before them.”(Reported by Ibn Majah.)

Gays are free to walk like they want to walk. Many of them are not feminine, and are impossible to identity as gays unless they publically say that they are gay.

Yes they are free to walk the way they wish.

Do you also criticize lesbians?

i see it also as a disgusting behavior.

Do you oppose nudist colonies?

Do you think a noble person can be walking there,the US president for example

In some hot, remote jungles of South America, Africa, and Southeast Asia, people do not wear any clothes. Do you object to that?

Of course,it is pathetic that they are still primitives.

The following articles show that there are lot of good reasons for people to reject Islam:

Criticism of the Quran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Qur'an is not a miracle; linguistic, scientific and historical problems, contradictions, abrogation, and satanic inspiration in the Qur'an

Scientific Errors in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

In your opinion, what is some of the best evidence that God inspired the writing of the Koran?

I stopped reading from the first few sentences,they were absolutely wrong,you can discuss them in a new thread if you wish.

 

[Agnostic75]

Anal sex between gays have a beneficial health benefits and long term abstinence has serious health risks, how that is explained by science?

The following article does not specifically mention gay sex, but it shows that having sex has significant health benefits.

10 Surprising Health Benefits of Sex

The following article shows that long term abstinence has significant health risks.

THE PROBLEM OF SEXUAL ABSTINENCE.

Common sense shows that humans generally do not enjoy living alone, and never kissing, and never having sex with someone else.

Do you also criticize lesbians?

I see it also as a disgusting behavior.

Why is that? Sexual identity is not a choice. Lesbians have less risks of getting sexually transmitted diseases than heterosexual men and women do.

Do you oppose nudist colonies?

Do you think a noble person can be walking there, the US president for example?

Of course. There is not any evidence that a God opposes nudity. Most Americans who have gone to nudist colonies say that they are very peaceful, and orderly.

In some hot, remote jungles of South America, Africa, and Southeast Asia, people do not wear any clothes. Do you object to that?

Of course, it is pathetic that they are still primitives.

It is God's desire that many people be primitive. That is why Neanderthal men, who lived over 50,000 years ago, were primitive. God could have made them advanced, but he chose not to.

In your opinion, what is some of the best evidence that God inspired the writing of the Koran?

 

[FearGod]

The following article does not specifically mention gay sex, but it shows that having sex has significant health benefits.

10 Surprising Health Benefits of Sex

The following article shows that long term abstinence has significant health risks.

THE PROBLEM OF SEXUAL ABSTINENCE.

Common sense shows that humans generally do not enjoy living alone, and never kissing, and never having sex with someone else.

So people live till age 16 in a miserable life till they will find someone to have sex with,so IOW happy life start after 16 or once we have sex.

Why is that? Sexual identity is not a choice. Lesbians have less risks of getting sexually transmitted diseases than heterosexual men and women do.

You asked for my opinion and i told you i feel it to be disgusting,thats my feeling toward it.

Of course. There is not any evidence that a God opposes nudity. Most Americans who have gone to nudist colonies say that they are very peaceful, and orderly.

And to me it is shameful.

It is God's desire that many people be primitive. That is why Neanderthal men, who lived over 50,000 years ago, were primitive. God could have made them advanced, but he chose not to.

Why do you think he can ?

In your opinion, what is some of the best evidence that God inspired the writing of the Koran?

One clear mistake in the quran will be enough,for example the quran mentioned that he made life possible due to water,so if we found out that life can exist without the need for water then we will realize that the quran was a big lie.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

One clear mistake in the quran will be enough,for example the quran mentioned that he made life possible due to water,so if we found out that life can exist without the need for water then we will realize that the quran was a big lie.

Your fear will not allow yourself to see 'one clear mistake'.
Fear overrides the logical part of your brain, which is why your fear of Allah and hell will ensure you maintain your irrational beliefs no matter what.

Scientists tell us water is vital for life. So do many religions as I explained to you before, as a result of the creation/primordial ocean myth. Scientists would also tell us mountains do not feel emotions and therefore don't feel fear, nor would they say they have intelligence to make decisions. Yet the Koran claims they do, this is a clear error to any rational person, but to a muslim it's easily ignored. As muslims would say....Allah knows best!!
There are many other examples of clear errors in the Koran as far as non muslims are concerned, but for a muslim that just cannot be.

 

[FearGod]

Your fear will not allow yourself to see 'one clear mistake'.
Fear overrides the logical part of your brain, which is why your fear of Allah and hell will ensure you maintain your irrational beliefs no matter what.

Scientists tell us water is vital for life. So do many religions as I explained to you before, as a result of the creation/primordial ocean myth. Scientists would also tell us mountains do not feel emotions and therefore don't feel fear, nor would they say they have intelligence to make decisions. Yet the Koran claims they do, this is a clear error to any rational person, but to a muslim it's easily ignored. As muslims would say....Allah knows best!!
There are many other examples of clear errors in the Koran as far as non muslims are concerned, but for a muslim that just cannot be.

You don't fear God ?
Do you ?
yes or no

 

[gnostic]

War is war. Based on religion. He kills to make peace. There is not a good record of this in history. The religion of Islam in its early days was spread with blood not peace. Though the same is said of Christianity. I'm not playing the game of "lets blame the Muslim" but simply pointing out where I feel that Muhammad was flawed. Though by my morality I feel Allah himself is flawed and immoral. So there may in root be part of the problem.

Islam never spread by force, Malaysia is a Muslim country where no warrior had reached it,many people still accepting Islam,did they converted because of the force.

Are you denying that Muhammad never fought in a single raid, battle or war?

Are you forgetting the Banu Qurayzu, where all but the few men that did converted to Islam's were executed, and the women and children enslaved? Do you seriously believe that no force or blood involved here?

Are you denying that army of Muslims didn't invade Syria after Muhammad's death?

Are you denying that Muslims overrun Egypt, Libya, and then Spain?

Did they not attack Sassanid empire? Did they not enter into India with an large army?

You have only mention a single country (Malaysia), but deny Islamic history where Muslims enter all these kingdoms and country behind armies.

Yeah, right...no blood, no force were ever used. You have whitewashed whole history of Islam with deluded fantasies and wishful thinking. Talk about not burying your head in sand....

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

You don't fear God ?
Do you ?
yes or no

I'm agnostic. So I can't fear a God if I don't know it exists therefore I have no reason to fear God. Nor do I believe in hell, a myth that has evolved over time in order to make people fearful so they can be controlled.
I'm open to the possibility a God exists, but see no evidence of a God who communicates with humans via prophets. It is a fact religions have been made by men for men and this has been the case for many thousands of years. So why should one consider any one religion to be an exception? Especially as every religion has flaws and contain myths that were popular during the time they were revealed. If there is God I don't believe he interferes with life on earth, though he may have set the ball rolling so to speak with the natural laws we observe in the universe.
A God who requires humans to be fearful of him is an insecure God, as truth is never established through fear.
So if a God does exist I see no reason why he would want me to fear him.
So the answer to your question is no! :sorry1:

 

[FearGod]

I'm agnostic. So I can't fear a God if I don't know it exists therefore I have no reason to fear God. Nor do I believe in hell, a myth that has evolved over time in order to make people fearful so they can be controlled.
I'm open to the possibility a God exists, but see no evidence of a God who communicates with humans via prophets. It is a fact religions have been made by men for men and this has been the case for many thousands of years. So why should one consider any one religion to be an exception? Especially as every religion has flaws and contain myths that were popular during the time they were revealed. If there is God a I don't believe he interferes with life on earth, though he may have set the ball rolling so to speak with the natural laws we observe in the universe.
A God who requires humans to be fearful of him is an insecure God, as truth is never established through fear.
So if a God does exist I see no reason why he would want me to fear him.
So the answer to your question is no! :sorry1:

So let me imagine that you are as hard as the stone or as strong as the mountain and you don't have any fear of God.

Imagine that you are alone in your bedroom,then all of a sudden,you hear a voice talking to you.

First you thought that you were dreaming,but again the voice is clear talking with you and you have no doubt about it and you are sure no one is playing a trick with you.

The voice says to you "i am the creator of this universe,and if you don't listen then you have to wait for my punishment" then he disappeared.

Now you are again alone in the room,will you sleep like nothing happened or you'll fear that this was not a joke and you'll think about it seriously with fear and worries.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So let me imagine that you are as hard as the stone or as strong as the mountain and you don't have any fear of God.

Imagine that you are alone in your bedroom,then all of a sudden,you hear a voice talking to you.

First you thought that you were dreaming,but again the voice is clear talking with you and you have no doubt about it and you are sure no one is playing a trick with you.

The voice says to you "i am the creator of this universe,and if you don't listen then you have to wait for my punishment" then he disappeared.

Now you are again alone in the room,will you sleep like nothing happened or you'll fear that this was not a joke and you'll think about it seriously with fear and worries.

I'd either dismiss it as a hallucination, similar to a nightmare, or talk to a mental health professional about it. I'd most probably ignore it.

 

[FearGod]

I'd either dismiss it as a hallucination, similar to a nightmare, or talk to a mental health professional about it. I'd most probably ignore it.

Yes because of your fears then you'll end in a mental hospital saying "God appeared to me" and you'll keep saying it,that is due to fears that you may feel like crazy. :yes:

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes because of your fears then you'll end in a mental hospital saying "God appeared to me" and you'll keep saying it,that is due to fears that you may feel like crazy. :yes:

Nope. I've had strange things happen to me and I've never had a psychotic break over it.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

So let me imagine that you are as hard as the stone or as strong as the mountain and you don't have any fear of God.

Imagine that you are alone in your bedroom,then all of a sudden,you hear a voice talking to you.

First you thought that you were dreaming,but again the voice is clear talking with you and you have no doubt about it and you are sure no one is playing a trick with you.

The voice says to you "i am the creator of this universe,and if you don't listen then you have to wait for my punishment" then he disappeared.

Now you are again alone in the room,will you sleep like nothing happened or you'll fear that this was not a joke and you'll think about it seriously with fear and worries.

Firstly to fear a God I need to know he exists and secondly I also need to have a reason for me to fear him. However my position is negative on both those counts, hence no fear. Like I said truth is never established through fear.
As for the experience you talk about, hearing voices is usually a result of hallucinations or some sort of mental condition.
People believe they hear voices from Jesus, Zeus, Aliens, chewbacca and I'm sure Allah. It's always a personal experience and therefore so is the interpretation of the message. If that's happened to you then then I can understand why this may have caused you fear, but from my point it means as much as someone who claims they were abducted by aliens. Followers of all religions claim they can communicate with God and vice versa.
Obviously if there is only one God and true religion then most if not all are delusional in making this claim.

 

[FearGod]

Firstly to fear a God I need to know he exists and secondly I also need to have a reason for me to fear him. However my position is negative on both those counts, hence no fear. Like I said truth is never established through fear.
As for the experience you talk about, hearing voices is usually a result of hallucinations or some sort of mental condition.
People believe they hear voices from Jesus, Zeus, Aliens, chewbacca and I'm sure Allah. It's always a personal experience and therefore so is the interpretation of the message. If that's happened to you then then I can understand why this may have caused you fear, but from my point it means as much as someone who claims they were abducted by aliens. Followers of all religions claim they can communicate with God and vice versa.
Obviously if there is only one God and true religion then most if not all are delusional in making this claim.

What if you were sure that it was real and not hallucinations.
Will you fear God ?
Just let us make assumption that you were sure 100% that it was real.

 

[FearGod]

Nope. I've had strange things happen to me and I've never had a psychotic break over it.

What are those strange things ?

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

What if you were sure that it was real and not hallucinations.
Will you fear God ?
Just let us make assumption that you were sure 100% that it was real.

How can you be sure it was real.
If a Christian claims Jesus spoke to him/her and they were sure it was real, does it make it so?
If someone claims they are sure they were abducted by aliens does it make so?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What are those strange things ?

Things that I don't feel like getting into right now.