War, What is it Good for?

[Heyo]

I think few people like to go to war. (Correct me, if I'm wrong.) But wars happen non-the-less. What do you think why is that so? Who wants war and is able to force or convince others to go to war against their intentions for peace?
Or is there a "natural law" that describes a mechanism that war has to happen against all intentions?

If we know the mechanisms and/or plots of the warmongers, can we stop them?

 

[Secret Chief]

These days: disaster capitalism. Good for businesses. Iraq was a festival of contracts.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I think few people like to go to war. (Correct me, if I'm wrong.) But wars happen non-the-less. What do you think why is that so? Who wants war and is able to force or convince others to go to war against their intentions for peace?
Or is there a "natural law" that describes a mechanism that war has to happen against all intentions?

If we know the mechanisms and/or plots of the warmongers, can we stop them?

The short brutal answer. Humans are in evolutionary terms capable of living in small groups and interact with a small group of humans outside their group. The moment you go bigger you rely on the idea of "X" as defining the larger amount of humans as having something in common and that also mean other humans outside this can become non-X and even non-human.
X can be race, nationality, language, ideology, religion and so on and can be use to define the correct human.

Example as a reductio ad absurdum. You are non-religious therefore you are non-X and not really a proper human, so if you die it doesn't matter because you are not really a human.
That one has a lot of variation.

There is of course more but the idea of the true X for what makes a human a human is always there.

Regards

 

[MNoBody]

given how all the wars in the past were mostly false flag type events, it shows how easy people are enflamed and gulled.... so it is past the basic comprehension skills of the bulk of people to be of any use in such discussions...they really do not have the lobes for it.
sheep will never comprehend the wolves it seems

 

[Estro Felino]

Warmongers have so many interests...
Hidden interests of course.
And they have people working for them. Like this guy in the movie Forrest Gump, who disconnected the microphones so the people would not have heard.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Whenever wars are mentioned, no one seems to give a damn that the rank and file don't get a vote as to such. It is the leaders who instigate wars, train people to kill, and usually get the rewards all too often. Even if humans can be brutish and aggressive, mostly it is not the majority pursuing violence but those we might elect to power, and who often manipulate us as to providing the backing for their enterprises. Apart from when we are attacked or have to respond when others (our allies) are attacked. And no doubt it has always been so.

 

[Augustus]

I think few people like to go to war. (Correct me, if I'm wrong.)

I'd say human history shows many people do indeed like going to war, and that this is no less true today than it was in the past.

Whether than is a Roman or Mongol general desperate for glory, people eagerly signing up for WW1/2, joining the international brigades in Spain or becoming jihadis, the idea of war is attractive to many people.

Violence has always had a certain romanticism attached to it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'd say human history shows many people do indeed like going to war, and that this is no less true today than it was in the past.

Whether than is a Roman or Mongol general desperate for glory, people eagerly signing up for WW1/2, joining the international brigades in Spain or becoming jihadis, the idea of war is attractive to many people.

Violence has always had a certain romanticism attached to it.

Romanticism is appropriate - when they don't understand the reality - and then they hate it all too often (as their friends/companions die so readily and they have to perform inhuman acts all too often - because it is expected - the enemy being savages).

 

[Nimos]

I think few people like to go to war. (Correct me, if I'm wrong.) But wars happen non-the-less. What do you think why is that so? Who wants war and is able to force or convince others to go to war against their intentions for peace?
Or is there a "natural law" that describes a mechanism that war has to happen against all intentions?

If we know the mechanisms and/or plots of the warmongers, can we stop them?

Today I think most wars are due to resources and global/local influence. But it's not really easy to justify a war due to those alone, so normally you will have stuff like "we fight for freedom", "we fight for democracy and human rights." and what other excuse people will support, and in some cases this is also true or simply a covicident.

But war is business for a lot of people, a lot sell equipment, planes, ships etc. some get access to resources etc.

I think it's natural for humans to fight over natural resources and territories as it is for animals, if we are put in such situations. But I don't think war as we see it today is as natural as people would like them to be. Because again most of them is caused by ill intentions, which does not seem to be related to anything natural. But rather something that humans have created a demand for, because we are poor at communication and sharing stuff on a large scale.

Why people participate in wars, I think varies a lot, some might be "forced", others because they want to make a difference. Some might due it because of the excitement etc. I do however think that the military for the most part, is probably the ones that are most against having to use force and it is more the political game that end up starting them.

To stop wars from happening, I think it needs to be a political solution, countries have to figure out how to get along correctly and share with each other. The issue as I see it, is that there are so much money and influence involved in it, that it will probably not be easy. Politicians rarely listen to the average joe, unless they have a huge influential organisation behind them or lots of money.

 

[Tambourine]

In his magnum opus On War, Carl von Clausewitz stated that "war is merely the continuation of politics by other means", and I believe that there is a profound truth to that which goes even beyond Clausewitz's own intended meaning.

War is the culmination of political processes, and much like other forms of politics, there are a myriad factors, motivations, and justifications that can play into it - economics, religion, patriarchial machismo, political ideology, racism, nationalism, collective delusion...



And much like other forms of politics, you can boil down a lot of it to an exertion of power by the wealthy and dominant class and an attempt to increase their control over society and resources, at the cost of working class lives.

 

[Tambourine]

I'd say human history shows many people do indeed like going to war, and that this is no less true today than it was in the past.

Whether than is a Roman or Mongol general desperate for glory, people eagerly signing up for WW1/2, joining the international brigades in Spain or becoming jihadis, the idea of war is attractive to many people.

Violence has always had a certain romanticism attached to it.

As far as I can tell, that is usually why ordinary people join wars.
But political leaders and elites may have an entirely different set of criteria for when to wage them.

 

[metis]

In Catholicism, we tend to go with the Just-War Theory enunciated by Aquinas, whereas only defense is allowed, and even then there are sharp restrictions: Just war theory - Wikipedia

 

[PureX]

Sadly, I think there is no small number of young men who like the idea of going to war. Their brains are addled with testosterone and a lust for "glory" (whatever they think that is). Their DNA is telling them to compete with other young males for their right to ascend into manhood, and if possible, leadership (conquest). And they have not yet matured enough to appreciate how tragic real human suffering and death are.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I think few people like to go to war. (Correct me, if I'm wrong.) But wars happen non-the-less. What do you think why is that so? Who wants war and is able to force or convince others to go to war against their intentions for peace?
Or is there a "natural law" that describes a mechanism that war has to happen against all intentions?

If we know the mechanisms and/or plots of the warmongers, can we stop them?

In times past, war was a major contributor for mixing the gene pool.

 

[pearl]

After all, what's the point of having all of these expensive war toys and killing machines if they cannot be used? I see and agree with the purpose of war in a case of protecting or acquiring freedom.
But what is the purpose of war when a people has to be convinced of the necessity through deliberate lies?

 

[Wandering Monk]

As nations become more connected through trade, I think the incentives for war are being reduced. It all comes down to costs. How much money do you lose by making trade concessions versus how much money and lives do you lose by going to war. I think the economic incentives for war are on the decline.

 

[Wandering Monk]

War and Peace

 

[Estro Felino]

In Catholicism, we tend to go with the Just-War Theory enunciated by Aquinas, whereas only defense is allowed, and even then there are sharp restrictions: Just war theory - Wikipedia

I believe no war can be just.
Of course self-defense is rightful and legitimate...but I don't agree with Augustine.

 

[metis]

I believe no war can be just.

Not in terms of causing it, thus I agree with you in that regard.

Of course self-defense is rightful and legitimate...but I don't agree with Augustine.

Yes, self-defense is the main intent of the J-W T.

And yes, it was first formulated by Augustine but then elaborated on and added to by Aquinas.

 

[Estro Felino]

As far as I can tell, that is usually why ordinary people join wars.
But political leaders and elites may have an entirely different set of criteria for when to wage them.

I fully agree.
In the Western world all wars have had hidden economic purposes.