Violence in Charlottesville, Virginia

[Saint Frankenstein]

Jason Kessler, one of the organizers of the Unite the Right demonstration, was shouted down, chased away and actually attacked by protesters as he attempted to have a press conference. So much for democracy and free speech.

'Unite the Right' rally organizer flees after confrontation at speech - CNN

 

[Twilight Hue]

Bottom line.

I don't want to live in a society that limits speech in any capacity.

I don't want to live in a society where hate is prevalent and active.

So what to do?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That is sort of one of the foundational principles behind western liberalism.

I'd like to call that ignorance, not progressive liberalism.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Bottom line.

I don't want to live in a society that limits speech in any capacity.

I don't want to live in a society where hate is prevalent and active.

So what to do?

Showing up with Nazi flags and Confederate flags and yelling epithets isn't speech when the act in it of itself, is provocation. There is no such thing as absolute free speech especially when consequences are involved. How is it speech when white nationalist militias are showing up with semi-automatic assault rifles? They're protesting a statue but at what point do we infer speech when someone brings a weapon?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Yeah. I don't like Neo-Nazis, Fascists or White Nationalists but I haven't found the arguments for censorship or suppressing them convincing. Its weird how the concept of "free speech" has been hijacked by the far-right and does show the weakness of the status quo that the automatic response is to try and shut such discussions down as "politically incorrect". Its not healthy for democracies to let the extremes fester as it usually only makes them bolder and stronger. Feeling persecuted often vindicates them and takes away the time that would be needed to ask whether the ideas are worth having at all and makes it harder to get people to change their mind.

I'm more concerned about how the far right has moved goal posts when it comes to free speech on certain issues. I sometimes wrestle with the idea of the gray area of "freedom of assembly" especially when the assembly arrives creating provocation. I guess what I'm trying to say is at what point do we truly have a right to assemble but knowing that assembly will cause social disruption?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Update: The driver had a fascination with Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany

See:Alleged driver of car that plowed into Charlottesville crowd was a Nazi sympathizer, former teacher says

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm more concerned about how the far right has moved goal posts when it comes to free speech on certain issues. I sometimes wrestle with the idea of the gray area of "freedom of assembly" especially when the assembly arrives creating provocation. I guess what I'm trying to say is at what point do we truly have a right to assemble but knowing that assembly will cause social disruption?

You're missing the point. These groups thrive on a persecution complex. By responding with force and banning them, you are giving them what they want. You are only proving them right. They already feel embattled and that whites are denied a place in society to advocate for their needs.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Update: The driver had a fascination with Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany

See:Alleged driver of car that plowed into Charlottesville crowd was a Nazi sympathizer, former teacher says

Lovely can't wait to put him on the guillotine.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Funny as a person dating a Swedish girl I find it hilarious that blacks want to persecute whites while many of us get along just fine with these people to the point we date them and even marry them.

I have been making sweet passionate love to a beautiful Nordic lass for 2 years now and ain't regretting it. It is a good day to be a mulatto.

I have been making her ultra right wing Trump voting father so proud and happy that he often pays for various expenses on my behalf and invites me to family gatherings to show me off. It is like Get Out sort of but without the brain transplants.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You're missing the point. These groups thrive on a persecution complex. By responding with force and banning them, you are giving them what they want. You are only proving them right. They already feel embattled and that whites are denied a place in society to advocate for their needs.

What groups with "persecution complex?" Oh White Nationalists? Sure, they think because the U.S. is becoming increasingly diverse they think the white man is going extinct. That was the whole basis of "unite the right."

 

[Twilight Hue]

Showing up with Nazi flags and Confederate flags and yelling epithets isn't speech when the act in it of itself, is provocation. There is no such thing as absolute free speech especially when consequences are involved. How is it speech when white nationalist militias are showing up with semi-automatic assault rifles? They're protesting a statue but at what point do we infer speech when someone brings a weapon?

No weapons were actually used to my knowledge. Just a horrible minded nutcase using his car.

I do see the point though when a person is regarded as an object of intense hate by those who would dearly like to see you dead or gone on a basis of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation etc. I get that.

Sadly it dosent discount the fact that people like this clearly exist and live among us, but I don't want them to win by lumping in everything through knee jerk blanket legislation in attempt's to silence or migate unpopular views and positions by manipulating the core tenants of the Constitution and bill of rights for people to express all views.

People are seemingly going after speech now as they go after guns.

Personally I think this is a tragic and horrible act by one terrible person, and this person deserves any punishment as prescribed to the fullest extent of the law.

There's got to be another way to deal with hatred and prejudice that's equitable and punitive to those that break the laws in this country. Not creating punitive ones that suppress speech and expression. That's a double edged sword imo.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What groups with "persecution complex?" Oh White Nationalists? Sure, they think because the U.S. is becoming increasingly diverse they think the white man is going extinct. That was the whole basis of "unite the right."

I know very well what they believe since I spend a good deal of time following whst they say and I used to agree with them (well, I was a neo-Nazi, not a white nationalist).

The point is they fell embattled and the left is making it so in various ways by using political correctness as a weapon and even being violent in turn.

 

[Quetzal]

The point is they fell embattled and the left is making it so in various ways by using political correctness as a weapon and even being violent in turn.

I have a hard time following that statement. Unless, of course, you can remind me of a liberal rally in which they were armed with assault rifles and killed someone with a car.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

No weapons were actually used to my knowledge. Just a horrible minded nutcase using his car.

I do see the point though when a person is regarded as an object of intense hate by those who would dearly like to see you dead or gone on a basis of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation etc. I get that.

Sadly it dosent discount the fact that people like this clearly exist and live among us, but I don't want them to win by lumping in everything through knee jerk blanket legislation in attempt's to silence or migate unpopular views and positions by manipulating the core tenants of the Constitution and bill of rights for people to express all views.

People are seemingly going after speech now as they go after guns.

Personally I think this is a tragic and horrible act by one terrible person, and this person deserves any punishment as prescribed to the fullest extent of the law.

There's got to be another way to deal with hatred and prejudice that's equitable and punitive to those that break the laws in this country. Not creating punitive ones that suppress speech and expression. That's a double edged sword imo.

Hatred and prejudice will continue to exist in our lifetime and our children's, children's, children's, lifetime and even beyond that it may be in one form or another unfortunately until at some point we elevate the species beyond tribalistic mentalities to the point that we unite as one species.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I know very well what they believe since I spend a good deal of time following whst they say and I used to agree with them (well, I was a neo-Nazi, not a white nationalist).

The point is they fell embattled and the left is making it so in various ways by using political correctness as a weapon and even being violent in turn.

ah things are making more sense...I appreciate the honesty.

 

[David1967]

President Trump tweeted: "We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"

I agree with this. This type of thing has gotten out of hand and needs to stop. Too many people looking for different reasons to hate their fellow man.

 

[fantome profane]

Jason Kessler, one of the organizers of the Unite the Right demonstration, was shouted down, chased away and actually attacked by protesters as he attempted to have a press conference. So much for democracy and free speech.

'Unite the Right' rally organizer flees after confrontation at speech - CNN

Good.

(and he was not hurt, he was yelled at. So save the talk of violence. This is an example of good speech defeating bad speech)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Good.

(and he was not hurt, he was yelled at. So save the talk of violence. This is an example of good speech defeating bad speech)

Doesn't matter if he was hurt or not. He was still assaulted.

 

[Bicyclehazard]

OK I'm going to run this by you because I have not seen it posted elsewhere. If you watch the video called Chartlottsville car crash alt angle you will notice as the car GVF 1111 passes the cameraman the brakes lights are on for 6 frames. This does not mean the brakes were on for 6/30 of a second since the brake lights were not visible before and after the car passed. The car clearly braked to avoid hitting the cameraman. There is an additional still photo that shows car GVF 1111 braked a second time to avoid pedestrians. I'm not taking sides in the debate but act only to make the roads safe for non motorized traffic. There is an additional video showing the red van parked in the middle of the street and blocking the cross walk 5 minutes before the crash took place. It is illegal to block a road and the local police should have towed the van. Just to make this clear there was not enough room in the street for an automobile to go around the red van. I also have good reason to believe the police broke the law by failing to post detour routes so those who just needed to get through the area could do so safely. I have cycled over 100000 miles all aver the US and have been hit by 7 automobiles.