Violence in Charlottesville, Virginia

[Saint Frankenstein]

Considering that my very views were supported, protected and encouraged by a white nationalist is testament to the fact you do not understand white nationalism.

I'm sure many will deny that you were friendly with a white nationalist. It seems too shocking, I'm sure. I used to be friends with a neo-Nazi skinhead from England during my neo-Nazi days. He was always nice to me and I had a great time talking to him. Life is unexpected at times. Hahaha.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm sure many will deny that you were friendly with a white nationalist. It seems too shocking, I'm sure. I used to be friends with a neo-Nazi skinhead from England during my neo-Nazi days. He was always nice to me and I had a great time talking to him. Life is unexpected at times. Hahaha.

I know, it is so shocking when you encounter people you are taught to hate yet you cannot bring yourself to hate them. The opposite is true of people you are taught to love. You are taught group A is bad and Group B is good yet the minute you experience and understand either side you realize you are only a product of your environment even in terms of rationality.

This is why I have to criticize everything around me so much even if I am apart of it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Considering that my very views were supported, protected and encouraged by a white nationalist is testament to the fact you do not understand white nationalism. When somebody like that sticks up for a stranger knowing he or she is black it creates a reality shock.

On top of this is the fact that I never said I belief or support white nationalists. I only said I support them in this fight and I also said multiple times earlier that I do not agree with them on most things. You also made some blatant lies about white nationalists that are completely removed from the truth of their actions.

You cannot conflate white nationalism with racism the same way you cannot conflate BLM with racial equality. They simply do not match reality. People keep throwing around words like these flippantly being manipulative or simple ignorant of what they mean.

Also I think there is a picture of me in one of the threads here on RF so you can see for yourself if you are skeptical of race since you have a hard time understanding why somebody like me would be firmly against BLM.

I never made a lie regarding white nationalism. My views are supported with linksI've previously listed. Allow me to explain it to you again since apparently your ignorance regarding the historical racism of white nationalism has blinded your reasoning. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center:


"White nationalist groups espouse white supremacist or white separatist ideologies, often focusing on the alleged inferiority of nonwhites. Groups listed in a variety of other categories - Ku Klux Klan, neo-Confederate, neo-Nazi, racist skinhead, and Christian Identity - could also be fairly described as white nationalist.
White nationalist groups espouse white supremacist or white separatist, ideologies, often focusing on the alleged inferiority of non-whites."

See: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/white-nationalist

Among the listed white nationalist groups is the Alt-Right group, Richard Spencer among the Alt-Right famously said:

"
Extermination of the brown hordes in their homelands could give vast new territories to us. They are ours for the taking. Perhaps some readers wish they could have taken part in the US Homestead acts. Those days do not have to be gone forever. We could gain vast territories and give them away to settlers much like in the old days. We could even form new white countries, and settle much more territory than the entire continental US put together. In Africa, India, and Latin America 100 or even 1,000 acre tracts could be given away to young homesteaders. Or perhaps our governments could just auction parcels of land or mineral rights instead of collecting taxes. It is up to us white men to agree on the justness of our cause, how the spoils will be divided among us, and to go out and conquer and settle like only white men can."

See:The Alt-Right Goes Full Genocide - It's Going Down

In your original post you called White Nationals "heros" for apparently standing up for their beliefs while admonishing the counter-protestors. It seems like you are a confused "brotha."

 

[Sha'irullah]

I never made a lie regarding white nationalism. My views are supported with linksI've previously listed. Allow me to explain it to you again since apparently your ignorance regarding the historical racism of white nationalism has blinded your reasoning. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center:


"White nationalist groups espouse white supremacist or white separatist ideologies, often focusing on the alleged inferiority of nonwhites. Groups listed in a variety of other categories - Ku Klux Klan, neo-Confederate, neo-Nazi, racist skinhead, and Christian Identity - could also be fairly described as white nationalist.
White nationalist groups espouse white supremacist or white separatist, ideologies, often focusing on the alleged inferiority of non-whites."

See: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/white-nationalist

Among the listed white nationalist groups is the Alt-Right group, Richard Spencer among the Alt-Right famously said:

"
Extermination of the brown hordes in their homelands could give vast new territories to us. They are ours for the taking. Perhaps some readers wish they could have taken part in the US Homestead acts. Those days do not have to be gone forever. We could gain vast territories and give them away to settlers much like in the old days. We could even form new white countries, and settle much more territory than the entire continental US put together. In Africa, India, and Latin America 100 or even 1,000 acre tracts could be given away to young homesteaders. Or perhaps our governments could just auction parcels of land or mineral rights instead of collecting taxes. It is up to us white men to agree on the justness of our cause, how the spoils will be divided among us, and to go out and conquer and settle like only white men can."

See:The Alt-Right Goes Full Genocide - It's Going Down

In your original post you called White Nationals "heros" for apparently standing up for their beliefs while admonishing the counter-protestors. It seems like you are a confused "brotha."

White nationalism and white supremacism are two separate things. Granted you have many supremacist who use nationalism as a way of hiding their views from the public so it will not sound bad, this does not change what white nationalism is.

Also all that you did is post links to heavily bias sources that have no credibility in understanding anything without political motivations.

I find it humorous you have to go out of your way to post drivel from the SPLC considering they are a tool without insight into real world affairs. They can be right but they can also be wrong when it suits them.

 

[Sha'irullah]

It seems like you are a confused "brotha."

Also that is very cute, but still does not change your racism.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Sad, unfortunate post.

Not a sad post. What is sad are supposed people of color sticking up for White Supremacists "right to speak" considering these same white nationalists hate these same people of color who defend them. 3 people died today, not to mentioned armed white nationalist cowards who plan to incite violence all because of their traitorous General Lee. What I was explaining earlier to this individual is that White Nationalism is not about being proud to be "white" (considering that Caucasians come from many places in Europe), it is about white supremacy, the expelling of people of color, and about exterminating people of color for the sole basis of hate. Considering what my foreparents went through to fight for the rights for me and my generation as well as other people of color, it is a shame that someone could take the ignorance of White Nationalists and spin this as some free speech issue when white nationals never had a history of peaceful protest.

 

[fantome profane]

But when he had the opportunity, he did not. A gross dereliction in my view.

I have chosen to be generous (uncharacteristically generous for me) and give Trump more time. He needs to make a strong statement, he needs to call out white supremacists and white nationalists. He has not done so as of yet, perhaps he will tomorrow. I hope so.

In the meantime, this is a model of what he needs to say, what everybody needs to say.

 

[Curious George]

Not a sad post. What is sad are supposed people of color sticking up for White Supremacists "right to speak" considering these same white nationalists hate these same people of color who defend them. 3 people died today, not to mentioned armed white nationalist cowards who plan to incite violence all because of their traitorous General Lee. What I was explaining earlier to this individual is that White Nationalism is not about being proud to be "white" (considering that Caucasians come from many places in Europe), it is about white supremacy, the expelling of people of color, and about exterminating people of color for the sole basis of hate. Considering what my foreparents went through to fight for the rights for me and my generation as well as other people of color, it is a shame that someone could take the ignorance of White Nationalists and spin this as some free speech issue when white nationals never had a history of peaceful protest.

I agree that it is unfortunate that anybody supports white nationalism. Although I may disagree with old Sterling's assessment, I would never stoop to implying he was a race traitor, uncle tom, house negro, etc. That tactic is sad and unfortunate. You can try to rationalize any way you want. I, honestly cannot imagine myself seeing it any other way. So, we can agree to disagree. If you would like me to elaborate further, I am glad to do so. But otherwise we can just leave it at disagreement.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

White nationalism and white supremacism are two separate things. Granted you have many supremacist who use nationalism as a way of hiding their views from the public so it will not sound bad, this does not change what white nationalism is.

Also all that you did is post links to heavily bias sources that have no credibility in understanding anything without political motivations.

I find it humorous you have to go out of your way to post drivel from the SPLC considering they are a tool without insight into real world affairs. They can be right but they can also be wrong when it suits them.

In response to the bold White Nationalism as it has been historically expressed in the United States, was no different than White supremacist beliefs. Where are you getting your information from? It is hard to believe someone who claims to be African-American can be this naive and ignorant regarding the history of white supremacy in the United States. This in effect, has made me rethink your ethnic makeup, I mean let's face it after all on the internet people tend to pose as members of other ethnic groups to try and sway discussion. There is a direct correlation between white nationalism and white supremacy

 

[Sha'irullah]

In response to the bold White Nationalism as it has been historically expressed in the United States, was no different than White supremacist beliefs. Where are you getting your information from? It is hard to believe someone who claims to be African-American can be this naive and ignorant regarding the history of white supremacy in the United States. This in effect, has made me rethink your ethnic makeup, I mean let's face it after all on the internet people tend to pose as members of other ethnic groups to try and sway discussion. There is a direct correlation between white nationalism and white supremacy

I am sorry about your ignorance, it can be cured. I have a whole library behind me that has everything from European history to American. You can start anywhere you like, just don't expect to have your biases confirmed.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I am sorry about your ignorance, it can be cured. I have a whole library behind me that has everything from European history to American. You can start anywhere you like, just don't expect to have your biases confirmed.

Ignorant on what? I'm well-educated, about to attain my masters degree this upcoming semester, a nice job, and very worldly when it comes to studies. I just think your position is quite odd for a "black man," and as you can see I'm not the only one here who thinks this way about you.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I agree that it is unfortunate that anybody supports white nationalism. Although I may disagree with old Sterling's assessment, I would never stoop to implying he was a race traitor, uncle tom, house negro, etc. That tactic is sad and unfortunate. You can try to rationalize any way you want. I, honestly cannot imagine myself seeing it any other way. So, we can agree to disagree. If you would like me to elaborate further, I am glad to do so. But otherwise we can just leave it at disagreement.

My overall position here is an unfortunate incident happened that didn't have to happen, but because of the hatred of one of several white nationalist groups that attended, people died and were injured. Whatever these white nationalists intent was this day was overshadowed by the actions of a man named James Alex Fields Jr.'s actions. The ironic part in all this is on Facebook people tried to shift blame and claim the driver was black and it was BLM's fault but alas truth came to the light:

His face is here

U.S. opening civil rights probe into car ramming Virginia crowd, killing woman

 

[Curious George]

My overall position here is an unfortunate incident happened that didn't have to happen, but because of the hatred of one of several white nationalist groups that attended, people died and were injured. Whatever these white nationalists intent was this day was overshadowed by the actions of a man named James Alex Fields Jr.'s actions. The ironic part in all this is on Facebook people tried to shift blame and claim the driver was black and it was BLM's fault but alas truth came to the light:

His face is here

U.S. opening civil rights probe into car ramming Virginia crowd, killing woman

I agree. There was a very vocal group when it was antifa/sjws commiting crimes during protests/demonstrations but less outrage at this potentially worse demonstration. Broad brushes very rarely capture truth. While I am politically opposed to much if not all of that for which white nationals stand, I still cannot blame them all for this and the other violence that was present.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Ignorant on what? I'm well-educated, about to attain my masters degree this upcoming semester, a nice job, and very worldly when it comes to studies. I just think your position is quite odd for a "black man," and as you can see I'm not the only one here who thinks this way about you.

Your position is very typical but not surprising considering your ethnicty. The assertion that education is somehow a guarantee to insight or knowledge of any sort is a massive failure of understanding how the college system works. Granted my academic focus is only on mathematics but my life has always been philosophy and politics.

I find it sad that you are duped by modern politics and the ploys used to promote globalism but I cannot harbor hate against such a person because like all grand ideas they sound nice. My personal gripe is with people like you believing that they are being attack yet cannot justify their assertions. You make groups of otherwise normal people into public enemies and will go with the flow on essentially any topic at hand.

It is this very attitude that made me dislike Obama after his 2nd year, so I obviously felted duped for voting for him to begin with.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Your position is very typical but not surprising considering your ethnicty. The assertion that education is somehow a guarantee to insight or knowledge of any sort is a massive failure of understanding how the college system works. Granted my academic focus is only on mathematics but my life has always been philosophy and politics.

I find it sad that you are duped by modern politics and the ploys used to promote globalism but I cannot harbor hate against such a person because like all grand ideas they sound nice. My personal gripe is with people like you believing that they are being attack yet cannot justify their assertions. You make groups of otherwise normal people into public enemies and will go with the flow on essentially any topic at hand.

It is this very attitude that made me dislike Obama after his 2nd year, so I obviously felted duped for voting for him to begin with.

I never implied I was a victim, although injustices upon me have happened, I've always taken accountability for my actions in all my life, this was the first rule my parents taught me. In reality this conversation is going nowhere and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Laika]

Thank you for the correction. You are right, not time to jump to big conclusions.

It would appear that the driver of the car that drove into the crowd, injuring 19 people (5 critically) and killing 1 was photographed as part of the far right protests earlier that day. You can start hating White Nationalists now Quetzal.

 

[Mister Emu]

What is sad are supposed people of color sticking up for White Supremacists "right to speak" considering these same white nationalists hate these same people of color who defend them.

That is sort of one of the foundational principles behind western liberalism.

 

[columbus]

That is sort of one of the foundational principles behind western liberalism.

Which western liberalism? The socialist/ MLK jr. sort, or the USA Founding Fathers/@Revoltingest sort of liberalism?

One of the others?
Maybe you just mean "people I don't like"?

Tom

 

[Quetzal]

It would appear that the driver of the car that drove into the crowd, injuring 19 people (5 critically) and killing 1 was photographed as part of the far right protests earlier that day. You can start hating White Nationalists now Quetzal.

Here is the thing. They should have a right to gather and peacefully protest whatever. Go through the channels, etc. But all bets are off when you jump behind the wheel of a car and careen into a crowd of people.

 

[Laika]

Here is the thing. They should have a right to gather and peacefully protest whatever. Go through the channels, etc. But all bets are off when you jump behind a car and careen into a crowd of people.

Yeah. I don't like Neo-Nazis, Fascists or White Nationalists but I haven't found the arguments for censorship or suppressing them convincing. Its weird how the concept of "free speech" has been hijacked by the far-right and does show the weakness of the status quo that the automatic response is to try and shut such discussions down as "politically incorrect". Its not healthy for democracies to let the extremes fester as it usually only makes them bolder and stronger. Feeling persecuted often vindicates them and takes away the time that would be needed to ask whether the ideas are worth having at all and makes it harder to get people to change their mind.