United Methodist church kicks out older members for age

[Riders]

This church decided it could no longer grow without kicking out all the older people.

They want new younger people in, and are starting to play different more pop music too I understand.
Well hallelujah, why don't they just kill off their folks after they get old?

A church made headlines for allegedly asking older members to leave. But the reality is more complicated - CNN

 

[sooda]

This church decided it could no longer grow without kicking out all the older people.

They want new younger people in, and are starting to play different more pop music too I understand.
Well hallelujah, why don't they just kill off their folks after they get old?

A church made headlines for allegedly asking older members to leave. But the reality is more complicated - CNN

Excerpt:

But for more than a decade, the campus has struggled to attract new members, particularly younger people, despite Cottage Grove being one of the fastest growing cities in Minnesota. About 30 people worship there weekly and for it to survive, church leaders say things have to change.
The church is planning a relaunch
So in December, Dan Wetterstrom, the lead pastor of Grove United Methodist Church, announced that come June, the Cottage Grove location would be temporarily closing its doors. The campus would reopen later in the year, under the leadership of Jeremy Peters -- a 32-year-old pastor who had experience in developing community relationships and new worship styles.
Wetterstrom's notes from that meeting were emailed to congregants who weren't able to attend, he said, and the news was met with a lot of emotion.
"Our folks love their campus. They are devoted to each other," Wetterstrom said. "When I shared that news, they were hurt and they were deeply disappointed. Some were surprised, and out of that came a lot of hard feelings."
For 70-year-old Bill Gackstetter, who has been a member of the congregation for about 10 years, the message was that only young families were wanted. He said the note he received said that the campus would be "going dark" and its current parishioners, many of whom are older, were "no longer allowed to go there."
"I just couldn't believe it," he told CNN.
CNN has so far been unable to reach other parishioners at the Cottage Grove campus, but as some told the Pioneer Press, the new changes have made members feel like they will soon be unwelcome.
"If it happened, I wouldn't come here any more," 34-year-old Stella Knapp, who attends the church with her family, told the newspaper.
"The past few weeks have seen confusion, anxiety and anger," Ron Purcell said as he opened a service on January 12, the paper reported.
Older members weren't asked to leave, pastor says
Wetterstrom insists the assertion that older congregants were asked to leave simply isn't true.
"They were requested to move to an alternative worship for 15 to 18 months during this transition time but they were never asked to stay away for two years," he said.
The revitalized Cottage Grove campus will be inclusive and open to "anyone and everyone who wants to be a part of it," Wetterstrom said. But church leaders have a specific mission in mind, and they want the new community to be made up of those who feel a calling to do that work. Because of that, he said the new community may not be the best fit for everyone.
That mission is to "make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world." Church leaders are inviting everyone in the congregation to be serve on the transition team, Wetterstrom said. He said they are also working to connect the current Cottage Grove congregation to the Woodbury campus and help them continue to worship as a group in another location after the building closes.

 

[Riders]

Sounds like they are unwelcome..........not very Christ like.

 

[Windwalker]

Back when I was a young believer, my father called churches and religion, businesses, that they were running businesses. He himself was a successful businessman. I was offended at the suggestion that they were about money and numbers. But of course, he was right. Example above.

One would think the new business wiz, pastor whateverhisnameis, would understand you can't just jettison your current clientele like that, in the interest of expanding your business. You have to take care of them. Add to this, this is not only good business, it's doubly so if you call yourself a Christian. So it appears the keen eye of the new exec with a vision for expansion, hasn't learned the human element yet. Perhaps his eye should be more towards the corporate ladder where he can slash and burn his way through the numbers to success and stature, without that pesky name of "Christ" there to haunt him.

 

[Nakosis]

This church decided it could no longer grow without kicking out all the older people.

They want new younger people in, and are starting to play different more pop music too I understand.
Well hallelujah, why don't they just kill off their folks after they get old?

A church made headlines for allegedly asking older members to leave. But the reality is more complicated - CNN

I came across a church like that. The pastor told us directly they were asking older parishioners to find a different church to go to. They wanted young active folks that would go out into the community to expand the church's influence. They wanted activists. They handed out assignments like go to books stores and ask for books written by church leaders. Go to rallies, conferences etc and hand out pamphlets. Show up at local government meetings with talking points. Like having a second job you didn't get paid for, promoting not God, Jesus or Christianity but specifically the church itself.

I didn't stick around long.

 

[sojourner]

Back when I was a young believer, my father called churches and religion, businesses, that they were running businesses. He himself was a successful businessman. I was offended at the suggestion that they were about money and numbers. But of course, he was right. Example above.

One would think the new business wiz, pastor whateverhisnameis, would understand you can't just jettison your current clientele like that, in the interest of expanding your business. You have to take care of them. Add to this, this is not only good business, it's doubly so if you call yourself a Christian. So it appears the keen eye of the new exec with a vision for expansion, hasn't learned the human element yet. Perhaps his eye should be more towards the corporate ladder where he can slash and burn his way through the numbers to success and stature, without that pesky name of "Christ" there to haunt him.

I get your point, but as a pastor and regional church developer, I can say unequivocally that you and Dear Old Dad are missing the mark. It's a big mistake to envision and treat the church as a business. A church isn't a business. A church is a community. If you want your community to grow, you have to be brutally honest about who you are and what direction you want to take. There must be mutuality and consensus. This cannot be a top-down unilateral decision. If there are some members who don't agree with the majority (and I suggest that the majority be more than a simple one -- more like 3/4), then they have to decide whether they want to leave or throw in. But they can't stay and just withhold their stewardship; they have to throw in.

I have seen a few congregations do a hard reboot like this, and they're successful if the gross majority is on board and willing to throw in. You can't just kick your people to the curb and expect the anticipated growth to be anything other than a flash in the pan. Without undergirding, the experiment will fail.

 

[Deeje]

Sounds like they are unwelcome..........not very Christ like.

We live in a changing world and many older folks are feeling like dinosaurs in their own lifetime. Their place of worship should not be included in that. Technology has overtaken all of us and if we don't keep up, we get left behind. But the teachings of Christ have not changed since the days when Jesus walked the earth. What has changed is the way it is presented. It should not alienate any age group...but as Jesus taught, it should appeal to all age groups or we have missed the point. .

JW's have solved that problem by gradually easing our older ones into the 21st century way of doing things. Our younger ones are all up on the technology and are drawn to visual presentations, rather than having to sit through boring sermons and same old, same old, ways to teach and encourage the congregations. We use modern technology to impart knowledge to all age groups. We do not resort to the "rock concert" type of service because 'entertainment' is not what Christianity is about...nor is it just a blatant appeal to emotion that is easily whipped up.

Christianity is about imparting knowledge of what Christ taught and how it is expressed in our modern age. The truth of Jesus sayings remains unchanged for those who want 'people' in their congregations rather than 'contributions' in their bank accounts to support their ministers. We have no paid ministers because all of our elders are volunteers who are self supporting, as the apostle Paul was. (1 Thessalonians 2:8-9)

Jesus said we "received free" so we should "give free". (Matthew 10:8)

 

[Twilight Hue]

Excerpt:

But for more than a decade, the campus has struggled to attract new members, particularly younger people, despite Cottage Grove being one of the fastest growing cities in Minnesota. About 30 people worship there weekly and for it to survive, church leaders say things have to change.
The church is planning a relaunch
So in December, Dan Wetterstrom, the lead pastor of Grove United Methodist Church, announced that come June, the Cottage Grove location would be temporarily closing its doors. The campus would reopen later in the year, under the leadership of Jeremy Peters -- a 32-year-old pastor who had experience in developing community relationships and new worship styles.
Wetterstrom's notes from that meeting were emailed to congregants who weren't able to attend, he said, and the news was met with a lot of emotion.
"Our folks love their campus. They are devoted to each other," Wetterstrom said. "When I shared that news, they were hurt and they were deeply disappointed. Some were surprised, and out of that came a lot of hard feelings."
For 70-year-old Bill Gackstetter, who has been a member of the congregation for about 10 years, the message was that only young families were wanted. He said the note he received said that the campus would be "going dark" and its current parishioners, many of whom are older, were "no longer allowed to go there."
"I just couldn't believe it," he told CNN.
CNN has so far been unable to reach other parishioners at the Cottage Grove campus, but as some told the Pioneer Press, the new changes have made members feel like they will soon be unwelcome.
"If it happened, I wouldn't come here any more," 34-year-old Stella Knapp, who attends the church with her family, told the newspaper.
"The past few weeks have seen confusion, anxiety and anger," Ron Purcell said as he opened a service on January 12, the paper reported.
Older members weren't asked to leave, pastor says
Wetterstrom insists the assertion that older congregants were asked to leave simply isn't true.
"They were requested to move to an alternative worship for 15 to 18 months during this transition time but they were never asked to stay away for two years," he said.
The revitalized Cottage Grove campus will be inclusive and open to "anyone and everyone who wants to be a part of it," Wetterstrom said. But church leaders have a specific mission in mind, and they want the new community to be made up of those who feel a calling to do that work. Because of that, he said the new community may not be the best fit for everyone.
That mission is to "make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world." Church leaders are inviting everyone in the congregation to be serve on the transition team, Wetterstrom said. He said they are also working to connect the current Cottage Grove congregation to the Woodbury campus and help them continue to worship as a group in another location after the building closes.

All they need to do is go down to the river.

Catch a fish.

And pluck a coin out of its mouth.

Problem solved.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We live in a changing world and many older folks are feeling like dinosaurs in their own lifetime. Their place of worship should not be included in that. Technology has overtaken all of us and if we don't keep up, we get left behind. But the teachings of Christ have not changed since the days when Jesus walked the earth. What has changed is the way it is presented. It should not alienate any age group...but as Jesus taught, it should appeal to all age groups or we have missed the point. .

JW's have solved that problem by gradually easing our older ones into the 21st century way of doing things. Our younger ones are all up on the technology and are drawn to visual presentations, rather than having to sit through boring sermons and same old, same old, ways to teach and encourage the congregations. We use modern technology to impart knowledge to all age groups. We do not resort to the "rock concert" type of service because 'entertainment' is not what Christianity is about...nor is it just a blatant appeal to emotion that is easily whipped up.

Christianity is about imparting knowledge of what Christ taught and how it is expressed in our modern age. The truth of Jesus sayings remains unchanged for those who want 'people' in their congregations rather than 'contributions' in their bank accounts to support their ministers. We have no paid ministers because all of our elders are volunteers who are self supporting, as the apostle Paul was. (1 Thessalonians 2:8-9)

Jesus said we "received free" so we should "give free". (Matthew 10:8)

Except for purchasing the Watchtower magazine , the Awake magazine and the various jw books.

Half my relatives were Jehovah witnesses I remember them giving me books all the time saying are you going to read it? It cost us a lot of money, so I'm not going to give it to you unless you promise to read it.

Churches always have a back door for 'revenue'. In addition to tithing.

 

[shunyadragon]

Sounds like they are unwelcome..........not very Christ like.

Your distortion of the article is not welcome.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

This church decided it could no longer grow without kicking out all the older people.

They want new younger people in, and are starting to play different more pop music too I understand.
Well hallelujah, why don't they just kill off their folks after they get old?

A church made headlines for allegedly asking older members to leave. But the reality is more complicated - CNN

From what I read here and elsewhere on this very same church, is that they need to refurbish the inside and out, which had suffered from long neglect. 30 people simply cannot pay the bills.

I was a bit surprised, however, that they were only planning one service, a contemporary style.

Now, it seems to me? That everyone could be accommodated here, with multiple, overlapping services. I happen to know of a Methodist Church in Oklahoma who did exactly that: Multiple, overlapping, varying style of worship services. The Traditional Style, is at 11:00am, perfect for older folk, who are later in getting up and around. There is a more Relaxed Style, early in the morning. And in between? But not in the main sanctuary? A Modern Style, geared specifically at the younger set.

All are well attended, and indeed, that church's numbers are up. Way up-- they are adding on to their existing infrastructure, paid for ahead of time!

So. This old church could easily accommodate the old fuddy-duddies' needs to Never Ever Change Anything-- after all, there are only 30 of them, and they are all old. A largish classroom would do nicely. Even better! Record the One (1) Sermon, and simply replay that one-- Best of the Best Yet! Nothing Changes. EVER! They can be Happy with No Change! Heck-- record the music too-- so it's the Same Song Each Week. Perfect!

I can hear them now, "Did you hear the Sermon this week? It was grand!"
"Yes, I did-- the best one yet! And they did my favorite hymn again!"
"I know, isn't it wonderful!"

 

[Windwalker]

I get your point, but as a pastor and regional church developer, I can say unequivocally that you and Dear Old Dad are missing the mark. It's a big mistake to envision and treat the church as a business. A church isn't a business. A church is a community. If you want your community to grow, you have to be brutally honest about who you are and what direction you want to take. There must be mutuality and consensus. This cannot be a top-down unilateral decision. If there are some members who don't agree with the majority (and I suggest that the majority be more than a simple one -- more like 3/4), then they have to decide whether they want to leave or throw in. But they can't stay and just withhold their stewardship; they have to throw in.

I have seen a few congregations do a hard reboot like this, and they're successful if the gross majority is on board and willing to throw in. You can't just kick your people to the curb and expect the anticipated growth to be anything other than a flash in the pan. Without undergirding, the experiment will fail.

I think what I was impressed by was the "Go find another church" directive. Was there assistance? Were there any transitional suggestions? Were they there to help transition their flock? Or was it, "Here's your notice. Bye, Bye now."? Now it's possible, these were all just old sticks in the mud and who really cares about the curmudgeonly? In which case, sure. They aren't really onboard anyway. And so forth. In which case, they would be viewed as an acceptable business loss for future gain.

While I thought my father was being cynical at the time, I don't think he was entirely dismissive of the whole affair. He was trying to show me that finances and growth, which are business things, are very much a part of organized religion, and not to make a mistake that that does not influence things. The good cause, is the product to sell. This is not to say that the good news is not important to people, or that the church does not provide for the need for community market, which it certainly can. But the second finances and steering committees are added to it, there is an underlying business operating.

I think that is all he was saying. Not that is was only just to make money, and that it's all just one product of many to sell in order to make money. I don't believe that to be the case myself, nor that he necessarily believed that to be true. But he was advising me in my overly trusting naivety, don't necessarily think it's just about the truth alone without any influence of money in there. Anytime there are money concerns involved, this is a truism. This is the bain of capitalism injecting itself into everything, which may otherwise be sacred. Locusts and wildhoney, are good metaphors for the prophet who cares nothing for anything but speaking the truth alone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing a lot of the good work that does happen. On a grand, god's eye view of things, we cannot dismiss the human system of capitalism with it tentacles into everything, including the sacred.

 

[stvdv]

That mission is to "make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world."

IF they even can't transform their own members, how they think to "transforming the world"? They need introspection and a reality check IMO

 

[Milton Platt]

This church decided it could no longer grow without kicking out all the older people.

They want new younger people in, and are starting to play different more pop music too I understand.
Well hallelujah, why don't they just kill off their folks after they get old?

A church made headlines for allegedly asking older members to leave. But the reality is more complicated - CNN

The article does not seem to support your headline.

 

[Muffled]

I believe inter generational services are difficult. It can be done but it takes management to do it and the old folk are not going to be motivated to do it. It is sad that they just decided to pull the rug out from under them but if they want they can just set up their own church and be done with the parent church.

 

[Twilight Hue]

IF they even can't transform their own members, how they think to "transforming the world"? They need introspection and a reality check IMO

I would recommend that they just shutter their doors and get a real job.

 

[Muffled]

Sounds like they are unwelcome..........not very Christ like.

I believe actually it would not be Christ like to overstay their welcome and provide a stumbling block.

 

[Muffled]

Back when I was a young believer, my father called churches and religion, businesses, that they were running businesses. He himself was a successful businessman. I was offended at the suggestion that they were about money and numbers. But of course, he was right. Example above.

One would think the new business wiz, pastor whateverhisnameis, would understand you can't just jettison your current clientele like that, in the interest of expanding your business. You have to take care of them. Add to this, this is not only good business, it's doubly so if you call yourself a Christian. So it appears the keen eye of the new exec with a vision for expansion, hasn't learned the human element yet. Perhaps his eye should be more towards the corporate ladder where he can slash and burn his way through the numbers to success and stature, without that pesky name of "Christ" there to haunt him.

I believe the article did sate that an alternative place was made available to them.

 

[Windwalker]

I believe the article did sate that an alternative place was made available to them.

Alright, in this case I hadn't seen this from the article, "He said they are also working to connect the current Cottage Grove congregation to the Woodbury campus and help them continue to worship as a group in another location after the building closes.". What I read earlier made it sound like they were told they would have to figure it out themselves.

In that case, sounds to me like these are just some people from the congregation who don't want to look at the facts they were given, as they bad mouth their church because it gives them something to complain about.

 

[Riders]

Alright, in this case I hadn't seen this from the article, "He said they are also working to connect the current Cottage Grove congregation to the Woodbury campus and help them continue to worship as a group in another location after the building closes.". What I read earlier made it sound like they were told they would have to figure it out themselves.

In that case, sounds to me like these are just some people from the congregation who don't want to look at the facts they were given, as they bad mouth their church because it gives them something to complain about.

I didn't read an alternative place would be made available but rather there are other churches and congregations, they asked to go there go to a different congregation.