Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
This may well be a little controversial. I hope not but it does bring into question the majority of Christian’s faiths. I was only really made aware of Trinitarians over the last 2 or 3 weeks. I did not know that most faiths believe in it, hence my concern now for ruffling feathers. It is not my intention. It is my intention to better understand it.
[FONT="]The first and foremost article of faith in The Church of Jesus [/FONT][FONT="]Christ[/FONT][FONT="] of Latter-day Saints is “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the [/FONT][FONT="]Holy Ghost[/FONT][FONT="].”[/FONT][FONT="]2[/FONT][FONT="] They believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. They believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, [/FONT][FONT="]forgiveness[/FONT][FONT="], and redemption. I think it is accurate to say they believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures because it is not true.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Indeed no less a source than the stalwart Harper’s [/FONT][FONT="]Bible[/FONT][FONT="] Dictionary[/FONT][FONT="] records that “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the [New Testament].”[/FONT]
[FONT="]In the year A.D. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to address—among other things—the growing issue of God’s alleged “trinity in unity.” What emerged from the heated contentions of churchmen, philosophers, and ecclesiastical dignitaries came to be known (after another 125 years and three more major councils)[/FONT][FONT="]4[/FONT][FONT="] as the Nicene Creed, with later reformulations such as the Athanasian Creed. These various evolutions and iterations of creeds—and others to come over the centuries—declared the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, immanent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable, without body, parts, or passions and dwelling outside space and time. In such creeds all three members are separate persons, but they are a single being, the oft-noted “mystery of the trinity.” They are three distinct persons, yet not three Gods but one. All three persons are incomprehensible, yet it is one God who is incomprehensible.[/FONT]
[FONT="]It seems self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His [/FONT][FONT="]baptism[/FONT][FONT="] at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.[/FONT]
[FONT="]With these New Testament sources and more ringing in our ears, it may be redundant to ask what Jesus meant when He said, “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do.”[/FONT][FONT="]On another occasion He said, “I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” Of His antagonists He said, “[They have] … seen and hated both me and my Father.” And there is, of course, that always deferential subordination to His Father that had Jesus say, “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”[/FONT][FONT="]“My father is greater than I.”[/FONT]
[FONT="]To whom was Jesus pleading so fervently all those years, including in such anguished cries as “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me” and “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”?[/FONT][FONT="]To acknowledge the scriptural evidence that otherwise perfectly united members of the Godhead are nevertheless separate and distinct beings is not to be guilty of polytheism; it is, rather, part of the great revelation Jesus came to deliver concerning the nature of divine beings. Perhaps the Apostle Paul said it best: “Christ Jesus … being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.”[/FONT]
Source.
The question, therefore, must be asked, “if Christians are defined as those who follow the teachings of Christ is someone who believes in the Trinity not a Christian as it is not a teaching of Christ”
My second inquiry is a little more serious.
Mark 16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 3: 4-6
It seems evident to me that in order for us to enter the Kingdom of God we must be Baptized by water and spirit.
Mark 1:9,10
23 Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them
.
24 And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying:
25 Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
26 And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water.
27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.
Now what I get from that is we have to be baptized by the complete immersion into water. My real concern is therefore “Christening” During a recent debate I was told that Trinitarians believe that Christening is the same as baptism, only it is nothing like baptism. From what I can see it is the naming of a child and the giving of God parents who never have any legal obligation or responsibility to that child. Those I was debating with were quite adamant that they meant the same. Are they?
I once read that only a handful of the Lords elect will hear the Masters voice. I found that strange as there are so many devout Christians in the world doing good. Strange, until I considered the doctrine of Christening. If the majority of Christians are Trinitarians, and therefore believe in Christening, then there is going to be so many unbaptized Christians waiting outside of the gates of heaven. There will literally be just a handful of genuinely baptized people going through those gates. You can no doubt see me concern. It seems that Satan, the father of all lies, has been misleading the children of men for centuries causing them to be Christened and not baptized excluding them from the Kingdom of God. A belief in the trinity will not prevent you from gaining entry into the Kingdom of God but the omission of being baptized and Christened instead will.
I hope that I have not offended anyone in my analysis. I hope I am wrong, however, I cannot see that I am, unless you can show me where I have erred.
[FONT="]The first and foremost article of faith in The Church of Jesus [/FONT][FONT="]Christ[/FONT][FONT="] of Latter-day Saints is “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the [/FONT][FONT="]Holy Ghost[/FONT][FONT="].”[/FONT][FONT="]2[/FONT][FONT="] They believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. They believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, [/FONT][FONT="]forgiveness[/FONT][FONT="], and redemption. I think it is accurate to say they believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures because it is not true.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Indeed no less a source than the stalwart Harper’s [/FONT][FONT="]Bible[/FONT][FONT="] Dictionary[/FONT][FONT="] records that “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the [New Testament].”[/FONT]
[FONT="]In the year A.D. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to address—among other things—the growing issue of God’s alleged “trinity in unity.” What emerged from the heated contentions of churchmen, philosophers, and ecclesiastical dignitaries came to be known (after another 125 years and three more major councils)[/FONT][FONT="]4[/FONT][FONT="] as the Nicene Creed, with later reformulations such as the Athanasian Creed. These various evolutions and iterations of creeds—and others to come over the centuries—declared the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, immanent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable, without body, parts, or passions and dwelling outside space and time. In such creeds all three members are separate persons, but they are a single being, the oft-noted “mystery of the trinity.” They are three distinct persons, yet not three Gods but one. All three persons are incomprehensible, yet it is one God who is incomprehensible.[/FONT]
[FONT="]It seems self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His [/FONT][FONT="]baptism[/FONT][FONT="] at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.[/FONT]
[FONT="]With these New Testament sources and more ringing in our ears, it may be redundant to ask what Jesus meant when He said, “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do.”[/FONT][FONT="]On another occasion He said, “I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” Of His antagonists He said, “[They have] … seen and hated both me and my Father.” And there is, of course, that always deferential subordination to His Father that had Jesus say, “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”[/FONT][FONT="]“My father is greater than I.”[/FONT]
[FONT="]To whom was Jesus pleading so fervently all those years, including in such anguished cries as “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me” and “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”?[/FONT][FONT="]To acknowledge the scriptural evidence that otherwise perfectly united members of the Godhead are nevertheless separate and distinct beings is not to be guilty of polytheism; it is, rather, part of the great revelation Jesus came to deliver concerning the nature of divine beings. Perhaps the Apostle Paul said it best: “Christ Jesus … being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.”[/FONT]
Source.
The question, therefore, must be asked, “if Christians are defined as those who follow the teachings of Christ is someone who believes in the Trinity not a Christian as it is not a teaching of Christ”
My second inquiry is a little more serious.
Mark 16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 3: 4-6
It seems evident to me that in order for us to enter the Kingdom of God we must be Baptized by water and spirit.
Mark 1:9,10
23 Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them
.
24 And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying:
25 Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
26 And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water.
27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.
Now what I get from that is we have to be baptized by the complete immersion into water. My real concern is therefore “Christening” During a recent debate I was told that Trinitarians believe that Christening is the same as baptism, only it is nothing like baptism. From what I can see it is the naming of a child and the giving of God parents who never have any legal obligation or responsibility to that child. Those I was debating with were quite adamant that they meant the same. Are they?
I once read that only a handful of the Lords elect will hear the Masters voice. I found that strange as there are so many devout Christians in the world doing good. Strange, until I considered the doctrine of Christening. If the majority of Christians are Trinitarians, and therefore believe in Christening, then there is going to be so many unbaptized Christians waiting outside of the gates of heaven. There will literally be just a handful of genuinely baptized people going through those gates. You can no doubt see me concern. It seems that Satan, the father of all lies, has been misleading the children of men for centuries causing them to be Christened and not baptized excluding them from the Kingdom of God. A belief in the trinity will not prevent you from gaining entry into the Kingdom of God but the omission of being baptized and Christened instead will.
I hope that I have not offended anyone in my analysis. I hope I am wrong, however, I cannot see that I am, unless you can show me where I have erred.
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