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Featured Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Yahcubs777, Apr 7, 2021 at 6:39 PM.

  1. Isolde Schulz

    Isolde Schulz Member

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    The Affordable Care Act is a noble endeavor which I hope can be maximised for every soul, zero strings attached. But that's what it always comes to: string attached like a tampon. Version Biden should prove to be interesting.
     
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  2. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I was consecrated as an infant, and later baptized. It's how I was trained, but I have entirely departed from that.
     
  3. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    May I piont out one major thing...we raise our children by the world we know/knew. When they turn 18-20, the world we knew doesn't exist anymore. Its a whole new world.
     
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  4. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    But we are talking about the way that you should go. When did you agree to have this done as an infant in wisdom of what it was? And furthermore, we are talking about wisdom coming from GOD, not from men. Its not the same.
     
  5. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Do you see this verse as just as an advice, or say a path that is deductive. That is to say... If you do train your child up the way that he should go, then the child cannot depart from them. Or, that you can do the best you can, and hope he doesn't depart from them. This is an important difference.

    I personally see it as the former.
     
  6. Isolde Schulz

    Isolde Schulz Member

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    Enjoy the book "Far from the Tree" by Robin Benway. It touches on sensitive foster/adoption/abuse cases.
     
  7. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Not really the focus of this thread.
     
  8. Isolde Schulz

    Isolde Schulz Member

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    Because you choose for it not to be.
     
  9. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    I am speaking about the verse in the bible that seems to say different to what the speaker of the verse did. That is the focus of this thread.
     
  10. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it Proverbs acts more as a guideline than anything else. What it says isn't true in some cases but is more likely to be true. If you raise your child well it is more likely that they will turn out the way you want them to be. But there is still the chance that the child will grow up to act contrary to the way you raised them. It seems like the author is over-exaggerating the point though, saying that it will definitely turn out this way. Hebrew literature often overexaggerates to make a point.

    But this is just my guess based on what I know.
     
  11. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    You make an excellent point. How could Solomon have wisdom from God if his life shows that he didn't act with wisdom and disobeyed God. Doesn't make sense.

    It is a contradiction.
     
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  12. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    The days of religious indoctrination should be a thing of the past.

    Is Proverbs 22:6 true?

    It seems Solomon broke his indoctrination and came to his senses. Yes it can happen and it's happening more and more is children learn to question.
     
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  13. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Not to get too much into this, but we have something in common. :)
    I went to school in Indiana (Bloomington) for a year. I actually liked Indiana but found some surprises there. Since I was Jewish coming from NYC, I was saddened and surprised when I was taunted by a student in a group because I was Jewish. There were few Jews there, but there were some. My roommate was also Jewish, she became a psychologist. I guess the administration put us together in the same room because they knew we were Jews. There were no other Jews in that building. However, we got along for the most part. Cultures, to an extent, can be comfortable.
    The taunt by this student in the housing complex was done in a snide way, as she announced in a large group that Jews had horns, referring to Moses I suppose. I was young, and this was a lonnng time ago, so times are different. I later learned that Michelangelo's famous statue of Moses at the Vatican did have horns because the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible relates that following his conversation with God on Mount Sinai, his face was “horned.” (Exodus 34:29,30,35, compare the Douay Version) The Vulgate was very popular in much of Christendom and therefore influenced the way scriptures were understood. Moses With Horns—An Artistic Curio — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY (jw.org)
    I didn't say anything at the time because I was never schooled in that line of thought, never heard that before, the comment was not directed to me in that group, but she knew I was the only Jew in that group.
    P.S. It is similar with the word 'hell,' the concept of it, sooo much misunderstanding and horror stories by so many. However, we'll leave that for a later time. Perhaps. :)
     
    #33 YoursTrue, Apr 8, 2021 at 9:11 AM
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 9:17 AM
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  14. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    The "way [anyone] should go" is something that cannot really be known by another human being - I will give you that. But your example of God doing the "training" is a good one - because it displays that what one would likely assume to be perfected training in exactly what "ought" to be happening (because it came from God) STILL FAILED when compared to Proverbs 22:6. I would think that, of anyone, God should know the very best training that anyone should receive. If He applied that training, and Proverbs 22:6 is true, then Solomon's "free will" should have been negated. He should have been forced to adhere to what he "ought" do and not depart from it. If God did not apply that sort of "perfect" training, then Solomon's training was NOT "the way he should go" - which presents another conundrum altogether! Can God, the supposed author of everything, instruct someone in ways they should NOT go? Wouldn't instruction from God automatically count as the way things should go? Or, probably equally problematic, Proverbs 22:6 is true and what Solomon did in his later years (worshipping false idols, was it?) was exactly what he SHOULD be doing! Which breaks a commandment or two and so forth. Just a mess really.

    And, if we were to take Proverbs 22:6 literally, then we should also accept that it is only speaking about male children. The pronoun "he" is the only one referred to or used throughout.

    And here we see a perfect example of why The Bible cannot be taken literally - casting doubt on everything that is supposedly of a "factual" nature within it.
     
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  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That "should go," I was brought up and raised to go down a very different path than I ended up taking. I was "trained up" to show people the way to god, to become the new youth pastor where I was going to church, and eventually the pastor. But I abandoned that path, and now I lead people away from god and have become an entirely different person.
     
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  16. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    How do you know that is the way to go? Im not sure if you are a satanist now, judging by your text at the bottom of your posts, but it was good that you did not go into ministry... The hilarious thing about your text below is that i know for a fact, that satanists are not worshippers of lucifer, but are worshippers of nature. And i understand what that means. I also know about the process one goes through to be baptised into nature, and that there are covens. And if you are among them, i know what it is that you people do where you are not physically present. But getting back to topic. No man should ever go into ministry without having revelations from GOD to share to the people. For the only one who should is a person trained by GOD directly. And that would eliminate 100% of the preachers in the earth today. The thing I have not really shared about why I posted this verse, was to show that it Solomon did not prove the verse true. And the reason why Solomon did not prove its true, is because of his hominid status. Your kind of people might have some knowledge about this. Its not that the verse is not true, as it has been proven many times by the Prophets, but that Solomon issue is that he is not of GOD, and that verse became a judgement on his head.
     
  17. Isolde Schulz

    Isolde Schulz Member

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    I'm not trained in the Bible so please forgive. I do recall a tragic story of Jacob and Esau, in which the wayward son returns home to father with deceptive intentions.
     
  18. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    There is a message behind that. And its not as you might think. That story made Jacob out to be a swindler, but its not it at all. Rather, he retrieved the stolen birth right. And if you read it, it was jacobs mother that told him to do it. But that is why she was called rebecca. Obviously i don't expect you to understand this without explanations. So its fine, thank you for your comment.
     
  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    College town, ay? Cheater.:p
    I don't know about the state as a whole, but where I lived does have quite a few Jews. Not that many, and German and English surnames are by far the predominate and most common (lots of unrelated Jones, Schmidtz, Smiths even Amish and not-Amish Yoders), but they're definitely there and have left a lasting presence in some spots (though not necessarily a known name attached, like some of the older houses they built).
    And am I'm guess the horned Moses lady, I don't know what she was but a minority of herself in that regards, as it's definitely not taught in the sea of Protestant churches. Most would probably consider it a great offense for making Moses look like the devil. It is an interesting thing, however.
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps because wisdom and knowledge doesn’t necessary protect from bad desires.
     
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