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Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

The Affordable Care Act is a noble endeavor which I hope can be maximised for every soul, zero strings attached. But that's what it always comes to: string attached like a tampon. Version Biden should prove to be interesting.
 

Yahcubs777

Active Member
I was consecrated as an infant, and later baptized. It's how I was trained, but I have entirely departed from that.

But we are talking about the way that you should go. When did you agree to have this done as an infant in wisdom of what it was? And furthermore, we are talking about wisdom coming from GOD, not from men. Its not the same.
 

Yahcubs777

Active Member
May I piont out one major thing...we raise our children by the world we know/knew. When they turn 18-20, the world we knew doesn't exist anymore. Its a whole new world.

Do you see this verse as just as an advice, or say a path that is deductive. That is to say... If you do train your child up the way that he should go, then the child cannot depart from them. Or, that you can do the best you can, and hope he doesn't depart from them. This is an important difference.

I personally see it as the former.
 
Do you see this verse as just as an advice, or say a path that is deductive. That is to say... If you do train your child up the way that he should go, then the child cannot depart from them. Or, that you can do the best you can, and hope he doesn't depart from them. This is an important difference.

I personally see it as the former.

Enjoy the book "Far from the Tree" by Robin Benway. It touches on sensitive foster/adoption/abuse cases.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Proverbs 22:6

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

1 kings
10 And when the queen of Sheba heard of the fame of Solomon concerning the name of the Lord, she came to prove him with hard questions.

2 And she came to Jerusalem with a very great train, with camels that bare spices, and very much gold, and precious stones: and when she was come to Solomon, she communed with him of all that was in her heart.

3 And Solomon told her all her questions: there was not any thing hid from the king, which he told her not.

4 And when the queen of Sheba had seen all Solomon's wisdom, and the house that he had built,

5 And the meat of his table, and the sitting of his servants, and the attendance of his ministers, and their apparel, and his cupbearers, and his ascent by which he went up unto the house of the Lord; there was no more spirit in her.

6 And she said to the king, It was a true report that I heard in mine own land of thy acts and of thy wisdom.

7 Howbeit I believed not the words, until I came, and mine eyes had seen it: and, behold, the half was not told me: thy wisdom and prosperity exceedeth the fame which I heard.

8 Happy are thy men, happy are these thy servants, which stand continually before thee, and that hear thy wisdom.

9 Blessed be the Lord thy God, which delighted in thee, to set thee on the throne of Israel: because the Lord loved Israel for ever, therefore made he thee king, to do judgment and justice.

10 And she gave the king an hundred and twenty talents of gold, and of spices very great store, and precious stones: there came no more such abundance of spices as these which the queen of Sheba gave to king Solomon.

11 And the navy also of Hiram, that brought gold from Ophir, brought in from Ophir great plenty of almug trees, and precious stones.

12 And the king made of the almug trees pillars for the house of the Lord, and for the king's house, harps also and psalteries for singers: there came no such almug trees, nor were seen unto this day.

13 And king Solomon gave unto the queen of Sheba all her desire, whatsoever she asked, beside that which Solomon gave her of his royal bounty. So she turned and went to her own country, she and her servants.

14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,


In Luke it is written

Luke 11
“The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.”

Ive posted three different passages here.

The first is a verse n Proverbs, who the words of Proverbs is believed to be Solomon.
The second is the event where the queen of Sheba came to see him for herself.
The third is the passage where Jesus His Pre-Eminence reveals HE is greater than that solomon.

Now here is the question to discuss in the thread.

Is Proverbs 22:6 true? If it is true, then how do you explain that Solomon, who was given wisdom by the GOD, trained by the GOD, departed from the ways of GOD as he grew older?


The way I see it Proverbs acts more as a guideline than anything else. What it says isn't true in some cases but is more likely to be true. If you raise your child well it is more likely that they will turn out the way you want them to be. But there is still the chance that the child will grow up to act contrary to the way you raised them. It seems like the author is over-exaggerating the point though, saying that it will definitely turn out this way. Hebrew literature often overexaggerates to make a point.

But this is just my guess based on what I know.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Then you haven't understood what wisdom is. Wisdom is profitable to direct. Solomon was supposed to receive that wisdom from GOD. If that's true, then it's not the same as the others mentioned. How can solomon have that height of wisdom, and turn away from GOD?

Free will is badly misunderstood. We act according to what we see is good for us. We act also according to our own understanding. And we do things we like to do. If we are doing things we don't want to do, then that is kind of like being forced do it for whatever reason. Still you chose to be in that situation.

But the height of Solomons wisdom, coming directly from the GOD, is not the kind that can lead someone to depart from the ways of GOD. The mindset solomon had, along with his height of understanding, cannot lead to making foolish decisions. The reason this is so delicate, is because we are talking about wisdom from GOD. The kind that maketh the wise to be foolish. Not the kind of scientists. The kind that scientists will also be in awe of.

How can Solomon with that height of wisdom, turn away from the source of that wisdom? Its not the kind that if you have it, you can make mistakes because your understanding won't allow it.

Father Adam did something only he can do that was a must do for his children. But let us stay on topic here.

You make an excellent point. How could Solomon have wisdom from God if his life shows that he didn't act with wisdom and disobeyed God. Doesn't make sense.

It is a contradiction.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Proverbs 22:6

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

1 kings
10 And when the queen of Sheba heard of the fame of Solomon concerning the name of the Lord, she came to prove him with hard questions.

2 And she came to Jerusalem with a very great train, with camels that bare spices, and very much gold, and precious stones: and when she was come to Solomon, she communed with him of all that was in her heart.

3 And Solomon told her all her questions: there was not any thing hid from the king, which he told her not.

4 And when the queen of Sheba had seen all Solomon's wisdom, and the house that he had built,

5 And the meat of his table, and the sitting of his servants, and the attendance of his ministers, and their apparel, and his cupbearers, and his ascent by which he went up unto the house of the Lord; there was no more spirit in her.

6 And she said to the king, It was a true report that I heard in mine own land of thy acts and of thy wisdom.

7 Howbeit I believed not the words, until I came, and mine eyes had seen it: and, behold, the half was not told me: thy wisdom and prosperity exceedeth the fame which I heard.

8 Happy are thy men, happy are these thy servants, which stand continually before thee, and that hear thy wisdom.

9 Blessed be the Lord thy God, which delighted in thee, to set thee on the throne of Israel: because the Lord loved Israel for ever, therefore made he thee king, to do judgment and justice.

10 And she gave the king an hundred and twenty talents of gold, and of spices very great store, and precious stones: there came no more such abundance of spices as these which the queen of Sheba gave to king Solomon.

11 And the navy also of Hiram, that brought gold from Ophir, brought in from Ophir great plenty of almug trees, and precious stones.

12 And the king made of the almug trees pillars for the house of the Lord, and for the king's house, harps also and psalteries for singers: there came no such almug trees, nor were seen unto this day.

13 And king Solomon gave unto the queen of Sheba all her desire, whatsoever she asked, beside that which Solomon gave her of his royal bounty. So she turned and went to her own country, she and her servants.

14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,


In Luke it is written

Luke 11
“The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.”

Ive posted three different passages here.

The first is a verse n Proverbs, who the words of Proverbs is believed to be Solomon.
The second is the event where the queen of Sheba came to see him for herself.
The third is the passage where Jesus His Pre-Eminence reveals HE is greater than that solomon.

Now here is the question to discuss in the thread.

Is Proverbs 22:6 true? If it is true, then how do you explain that Solomon, who was given wisdom by the GOD, trained by the GOD, departed from the ways of GOD as he grew older?



The days of religious indoctrination should be a thing of the past.

Is Proverbs 22:6 true?

It seems Solomon broke his indoctrination and came to his senses. Yes it can happen and it's happening more and more is children learn to question.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The differences between Indiana and California is almost like an entirely different country. It's just not white enough here to be like Indiana. I've even been trying to learn Spanish (it's been slow for me for some reason) because it's used here a lot. When I first moved here hearing it didn't help feeling homesick, because you basically in Indiana it's 99% English, .5% Germany .5% everything else.
It's way less racist here, people are more laid back and tolerant of others, they typically just don't care, even the labor laws are different and WAY more worker friendly.
Indiana there were times people told me to leave, as I just did not fit in at all there. Here, it's basically impossible to not fit in and I would be stunned if anyone here treated me like people in Indiana did. Sure, there's some out there who would, but they just aren't high on Jesus here like they are in Indiana (and the MidWest in general). It's so bad it's more racist than a lot of places in the South.
Basically, Indiana is a bigoted Protestant ****hole state of corn, farms, bars, churches, meth, pills, and opiates (strong, solid Klan history, as well).

I had to leave it. It was a psychological toxin for me, and what I would call existentially abusive. I still remember the pains that anguish I felt during the nightmares I had of being sent to Hell. It left me wanting to die, and praying to god he would send death. And the more faith I placed in god he would make everything better, the worse and more miserable my life got. So I plucked myself from Jesus' flock, evicted to the holy ghost from my life, and told god to bugger off.
Things have been getting better ever since.

I've known a few people from there. I remember two of them not getting what Americans were objecting to over the ACA, because apparently the Dutch system is what that is modeled after (this is been awhile so I don't recall the details).

Not to get too much into this, but we have something in common. :)
I went to school in Indiana (Bloomington) for a year. I actually liked Indiana but found some surprises there. Since I was Jewish coming from NYC, I was saddened and surprised when I was taunted by a student in a group because I was Jewish. There were few Jews there, but there were some. My roommate was also Jewish, she became a psychologist. I guess the administration put us together in the same room because they knew we were Jews. There were no other Jews in that building. However, we got along for the most part. Cultures, to an extent, can be comfortable.
The taunt by this student in the housing complex was done in a snide way, as she announced in a large group that Jews had horns, referring to Moses I suppose. I was young, and this was a lonnng time ago, so times are different. I later learned that Michelangelo's famous statue of Moses at the Vatican did have horns because the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible relates that following his conversation with God on Mount Sinai, his face was “horned.” (Exodus 34:29,30,35, compare the Douay Version) The Vulgate was very popular in much of Christendom and therefore influenced the way scriptures were understood. Moses With Horns—An Artistic Curio — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY (jw.org)
I didn't say anything at the time because I was never schooled in that line of thought, never heard that before, the comment was not directed to me in that group, but she knew I was the only Jew in that group.
P.S. It is similar with the word 'hell,' the concept of it, sooo much misunderstanding and horror stories by so many. However, we'll leave that for a later time. Perhaps. :)
 
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A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Proverbs 22:6

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Is Proverbs 22:6 true? If it is true, then how do you explain that Solomon, who was given wisdom by the GOD, trained by the GOD, departed from the ways of GOD as he grew older?
The "way [anyone] should go" is something that cannot really be known by another human being - I will give you that. But your example of God doing the "training" is a good one - because it displays that what one would likely assume to be perfected training in exactly what "ought" to be happening (because it came from God) STILL FAILED when compared to Proverbs 22:6. I would think that, of anyone, God should know the very best training that anyone should receive. If He applied that training, and Proverbs 22:6 is true, then Solomon's "free will" should have been negated. He should have been forced to adhere to what he "ought" do and not depart from it. If God did not apply that sort of "perfect" training, then Solomon's training was NOT "the way he should go" - which presents another conundrum altogether! Can God, the supposed author of everything, instruct someone in ways they should NOT go? Wouldn't instruction from God automatically count as the way things should go? Or, probably equally problematic, Proverbs 22:6 is true and what Solomon did in his later years (worshipping false idols, was it?) was exactly what he SHOULD be doing! Which breaks a commandment or two and so forth. Just a mess really.

And, if we were to take Proverbs 22:6 literally, then we should also accept that it is only speaking about male children. The pronoun "he" is the only one referred to or used throughout.

And here we see a perfect example of why The Bible cannot be taken literally - casting doubt on everything that is supposedly of a "factual" nature within it.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
But we are talking about the way that you should go. When did you agree to have this done as an infant in wisdom of what it was? And furthermore, we are talking about wisdom coming from GOD, not from men. Its not the same.
That "should go," I was brought up and raised to go down a very different path than I ended up taking. I was "trained up" to show people the way to god, to become the new youth pastor where I was going to church, and eventually the pastor. But I abandoned that path, and now I lead people away from god and have become an entirely different person.
 

Yahcubs777

Active Member
That "should go," I was brought up and raised to go down a very different path than I ended up taking. I was "trained up" to show people the way to god, to become the new youth pastor where I was going to church, and eventually the pastor. But I abandoned that path, and now I lead people away from god and have become an entirely different person.

How do you know that is the way to go? Im not sure if you are a satanist now, judging by your text at the bottom of your posts, but it was good that you did not go into ministry... The hilarious thing about your text below is that i know for a fact, that satanists are not worshippers of lucifer, but are worshippers of nature. And i understand what that means. I also know about the process one goes through to be baptised into nature, and that there are covens. And if you are among them, i know what it is that you people do where you are not physically present. But getting back to topic. No man should ever go into ministry without having revelations from GOD to share to the people. For the only one who should is a person trained by GOD directly. And that would eliminate 100% of the preachers in the earth today. The thing I have not really shared about why I posted this verse, was to show that it Solomon did not prove the verse true. And the reason why Solomon did not prove its true, is because of his hominid status. Your kind of people might have some knowledge about this. Its not that the verse is not true, as it has been proven many times by the Prophets, but that Solomon issue is that he is not of GOD, and that verse became a judgement on his head.
 
Proverbs 22:6

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

1 kings
10 And when the queen of Sheba heard of the fame of Solomon concerning the name of the Lord, she came to prove him with hard questions.

2 And she came to Jerusalem with a very great train, with camels that bare spices, and very much gold, and precious stones: and when she was come to Solomon, she communed with him of all that was in her heart.

3 And Solomon told her all her questions: there was not any thing hid from the king, which he told her not.

4 And when the queen of Sheba had seen all Solomon's wisdom, and the house that he had built,

5 And the meat of his table, and the sitting of his servants, and the attendance of his ministers, and their apparel, and his cupbearers, and his ascent by which he went up unto the house of the Lord; there was no more spirit in her.

6 And she said to the king, It was a true report that I heard in mine own land of thy acts and of thy wisdom.

7 Howbeit I believed not the words, until I came, and mine eyes had seen it: and, behold, the half was not told me: thy wisdom and prosperity exceedeth the fame which I heard.

8 Happy are thy men, happy are these thy servants, which stand continually before thee, and that hear thy wisdom.

9 Blessed be the Lord thy God, which delighted in thee, to set thee on the throne of Israel: because the Lord loved Israel for ever, therefore made he thee king, to do judgment and justice.

10 And she gave the king an hundred and twenty talents of gold, and of spices very great store, and precious stones: there came no more such abundance of spices as these which the queen of Sheba gave to king Solomon.

11 And the navy also of Hiram, that brought gold from Ophir, brought in from Ophir great plenty of almug trees, and precious stones.

12 And the king made of the almug trees pillars for the house of the Lord, and for the king's house, harps also and psalteries for singers: there came no such almug trees, nor were seen unto this day.

13 And king Solomon gave unto the queen of Sheba all her desire, whatsoever she asked, beside that which Solomon gave her of his royal bounty. So she turned and went to her own country, she and her servants.

14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,


In Luke it is written

Luke 11
“The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.”

Ive posted three different passages here.

The first is a verse n Proverbs, who the words of Proverbs is believed to be Solomon.
The second is the event where the queen of Sheba came to see him for herself.
The third is the passage where Jesus His Pre-Eminence reveals HE is greater than that solomon.

Now here is the question to discuss in the thread.

Is Proverbs 22:6 true? If it is true, then how do you explain that Solomon, who was given wisdom by the GOD, trained by the GOD, departed from the ways of GOD as he grew older?


I'm not trained in the Bible so please forgive. I do recall a tragic story of Jacob and Esau, in which the wayward son returns home to father with deceptive intentions.
 

Yahcubs777

Active Member
I'm not trained in the Bible so please forgive. I do recall a tragic story of Jacob and Esau, in which the wayward son returns home to father with deceptive intentions.

There is a message behind that. And its not as you might think. That story made Jacob out to be a swindler, but its not it at all. Rather, he retrieved the stolen birth right. And if you read it, it was jacobs mother that told him to do it. But that is why she was called rebecca. Obviously i don't expect you to understand this without explanations. So its fine, thank you for your comment.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Not to get too much into this, but we have something in common. :)
I went to school in Indiana (Bloomington) for a year. I actually liked Indiana but found some surprises there. Since I was Jewish coming from NYC, I was saddened and surprised when I was taunted by a student in a group because I was Jewish. There were few Jews there, but there were some. My roommate was also Jewish, she became a psychologist. I guess the administration put us together in the same room because they knew we were Jews. There were no other Jews in that building. However, we got along for the most part. Cultures, to an extent, can be comfortable.
The taunt by this student in the housing complex was done in a snide way, as she announced in a large group that Jews had horns, referring to Moses I suppose. I was young, and this was a lonnng time ago, so times are different. I later learned that Michelangelo's famous statue of Moses at the Vatican did have horns because the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible relates that following his conversation with God on Mount Sinai, his face was “horned.” (Exodus 34:29,30,35, compare the Douay Version) The Vulgate was very popular in much of Christendom and therefore influenced the way scriptures were understood. Moses With Horns—An Artistic Curio — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY (jw.org)
I didn't say anything at the time because I was never schooled in that line of thought, never heard that before, the comment was not directed to me in that group, but she knew I was the only Jew in that group.
P.S. It is similar with the word 'hell,' the concept of it, sooo much misunderstanding and horror stories by so many. However, we'll leave that for a later time. Perhaps. :)
College town, ay? Cheater.:p
I don't know about the state as a whole, but where I lived does have quite a few Jews. Not that many, and German and English surnames are by far the predominate and most common (lots of unrelated Jones, Schmidtz, Smiths even Amish and not-Amish Yoders), but they're definitely there and have left a lasting presence in some spots (though not necessarily a known name attached, like some of the older houses they built).
And am I'm guess the horned Moses lady, I don't know what she was but a minority of herself in that regards, as it's definitely not taught in the sea of Protestant churches. Most would probably consider it a great offense for making Moses look like the devil. It is an interesting thing, however.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...Is Proverbs 22:6 true? If it is true, then how do you explain that Solomon, who was given wisdom by the GOD, trained by the GOD, departed from the ways of GOD as he grew older?

Perhaps because wisdom and knowledge doesn’t necessary protect from bad desires.
 
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