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Featured To Hell With Hell

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    So what's the deal here?
    Was hell going to waste with no Satan to burn?
    Or does god simply get a kick out of making people suffer?


    Nobody is burning in the fiery hell so there are no dead people suffering. Not even the cruelest of dictators, the deadliest serial killers or the vilest pedophiles are in hell.

    There are 2 kinds of hell - the grave [Sheol] and the fiery hell [second death]

    The grave which is also called hell in the Bible are usually where some devils hang out. Mark 5:1-20
    a man with an impure spirit came from the tombs to meet him. This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain. For he had often been chained hand and foot, but he tore the chains apart and broke the irons on his feet. No one was strong enough to subdue him. Night and day among the tombs and in the hills he would cry out and cut himself with stones.

    [​IMG]

    MAN WILL NOT be judged right after he dies. The Lord God has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness:

    “Because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” (Acts 17:31, NKJV)

    This is the Day of Judgment, also called the Day of the Lord:

    “But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.” (II Peter 3:7,10, NKJV)

    On that day, the heavens will pass away, and the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.The Day of Judgment is on the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ:

    “Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” (Jude 1:14-15 NKJV)

    In the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, He will execute judgment on all. Thus, the Day of Judgment will take place not right after man dies but in the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Because of this, what does the Bible say regarding the dead? This is what we could read in Psalms 88:5:

    “Adrift among the dead, Like the slain who lie in the grave, Whom You remember no more, And who are cut off from Your hand.” (Psalms 88:5 NKJV)

    The dead lies on his grave, and remember no more for the dead’s thoughts perish:

    “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalms 146:4 KJV)

    When a person dies, his breath cease, he return to earth, and his thoughts perish. Until when the dead will remain in the grave? When will the dead rise to receive judgment? Job 14:10-12 reads:

    “But man dies and is laid away; Indeed he breathes his last And where is he? As water disappears from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dries up, So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor be roused from their sleep.” (Job 14:10-12 NKJV)

    When man dies, according to the Bible, he “lies down and does not rise.” He will not rise to received judgment “Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor roused from their sleep.” The “passing away of heaven” was on the Day of the Lord, the Day of Judgment, the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ (cf. II Peter 3:7, 10).

    Thus, the dead will remain on their grave until the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, the day He will execute judgment to all, so only on that day men will received judgment.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    The threats are there, to generate lots and lots of MONEY.

    As always, follow the money.

    I always thought that the Catholic Church, back in the ancient times, finally hit upon the perfect solution: Indulgences.

    Why bother with all that silly "going to confession" nonsense in person? Just send out for an automatic "win" by paying a little fee.

    In truth, this was probability one of the most honest scams in the history of Christianity, in my opinion. Just cut to the chase: give them money, they give you "absolution" without any fuss and bother.

    *sigh*

    But what if money is dear, and the shill is in need of a more emotional hook?

    Hell fits the bill perfectly: Threaten them with something and be sure the threat has a cure-- but one that is exclusive to you.

    Even better: The "threat" takes place after death! So there is never any problem of needing to carry it out....

    P.T. Barnum understood: Never give a sucker an even break.
     
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  3. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Your "divine justice" is quite immoral.

    You describe a terrorist god, actually-- infinite torture is infinite terrorism.
     
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  4. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Putting someone into infinite terror-torture pit?

    IS THE OPPOSITE OF LOVE-- only a being of PURE HATE would do such a thing.
     
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  5. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    .
    If they're not suffering in a fiery hell right now it's waiting for them just around the corner.

    Mark 9:43
    43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

    Revelation 21:8
    8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

    Matthew 13:49-50
    49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
    50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


    So my question still stands: Just what is accomplished by putting people in hell?


    .


     
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  6. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    And guess what? The word in Greek, in those passages, is not Hades (which is translated Hell)....it's Ge'ena. It it related to the Valley of Hinnom, which was Jerusalem's garbage dump.

    "But if the fire has no effect then why bother creating it?"

    You do ask good questions! The answer is, because it's symbolic, as at Revelation 20:14, where it says that 'death' is thrown into the Lake of Fire. Death isn't something tangible that can burn.... the verse simply is telling us that death (from sin) will be gone forever, it will be no more. Which is what Revelation 21:4, the next page over, reveals: "death will be no more."

    Another passage where fire is symbolic, is 2 Peter 3:10-12. In fact, a lot of symbolism is used in that passage!
    You might like reading this OP (or maybe not.) You'll see it's about destruction by fire, if you scroll down a couple paragraphs:
    "New Heavens and New Earth" - Why Destroy the Old?
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    There are ,multiple interpretations of the Bible by Christians. There is no one "right" answer.
     
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  8. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    What is accomplished by putting a criminal to death?




    [​IMG]

    These are the offenses which may result in the death penalty under Title 18 of the United States Code:[20]
    • Causing death by using a chemical weapon or a weapon of mass destruction
    • Killing a member of the Congress, the Cabinet or United States Supreme Court
    • Kidnapping a member of the Congress, the Cabinet or Supreme Court resulting in death
    • Conspiracy to kill a member of the Congress, the Cabinet or Supreme Court resulting in death
    • Causing death by using an explosive
    • Causing death by using an illegal firearm
    • Causing death during a drug-related drive-by shooting
    • Genocide resulting in death
    • Carjacking resulting in death
    • Mailing explosive substances resulting in death
    • Willful destruction of aircraft or motor vehicles resulting in death.
    • Causing death by aircraft hijacking or any attempt to commit aircraft hijacking.
    • Causing death by kidnapping or hostage taking.
    • First degree murder
      • Murder perpetrated by poison or lying in wait
      • Murder that is willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated
      • Murder in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any arson, torture, escape, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery.
      • Murder perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children
    • Murder committed by a federal prisoner or an escaped federal prisoner sentenced to 15 years to life or a more severe penalty
    • Assassinating the President or a member of his staff
    • Kidnapping the President or a member of his staff resulting in death
    • Killing persons aiding federal investigations or State correctional officers
    • Willful wrecking of a train resulting in death
    • Sexual abuse resulting in death
    • Sexual exploitation of children resulting in death
    • Torture resulting in death
    • War crimes resulting in death
    • Large-scale drug trafficking (e.g. high-level selling of cocaine)
    • Obstruction of exercise of religion resulting in death (hate crime)
    • Attempting, authorizing or advising the killing of any officer, juror, or witness in cases involving a Continuing Criminal Enterprise, even if such killing does not occur.
    • Deprivation of constitutional rights or conspiracy to do so, involving kidnapping or rape, or resulting in serious bodily harm or death.
    • Espionage
    • Treason
    That is the US law, how about God's law?

    1 Corinthians 6:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
    Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

    Galatians 5:19-21 New International Version (NIV)
    The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Revelation 21:8 New International Version (NIV)
    But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”


    I hope that answers your question: Just what is accomplished by putting people in hell?

    Nobody has been punished to suffer the fiery hell.
    Not even one.
    Why?

    2 Peter 3:9 New International Version (NIV)
    The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

    How many died under the capital punishment of the United States?

    I believe you have an idea Skwim

    List of offenders executed in the United States in 2018 - Wikipedia



    Capital punishment for juveniles in the United States - Wikipedia
     
  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Doesn't make a wit of difference. What's important is what today's Bibles are telling their readers to take as truth. And the words they use are chosen because they best convey the meaning the authors intend to impart to their readers. If they had intended to tell their readers to believe that hell is Jerusalem's garbage dump then that's what they would have written: "Jerusalem's garbage dump." But they didn't because they intended their readers to think of hell as it's most commonly perceived: suffering among fire and brimstone.


    Of course not, but bodies do. And Rev. 20:14 says

    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
    On the other hand we have Mark 9:43

    43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
    Telling us that hell itself is where the fire resides.

    Of course conflicting and contradictory statements are nothing new in the Bible, which is really one of its appeals; one can cherry-pick the Bible fit whatever theology a person chooses to construct.

    .



    .
     
    #29 Skwim, Apr 14, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  10. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Do you think people would sign on board if there wasn't any hell or eternal punishment?
     
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  11. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    List of serial killers by number of victims - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]


    THE LORD JESUS Christ speaks of "hell" where fire never goes out. This is what He says in Mark 9:43:

    “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.” (Mark 9:43 NIV)

    There is indeed a hell that according to the Lord Jesus, “where the fire never goes out.” The Bible also calls it Lake of fire:

    “Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.” (Revelation 20:14 NIV)

    The "lake of fire" is the "second death" where God will punish those who sinned against Him:

    “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8 NIV)

    Hell is the place of eternal torment. The Bible vividly describes how God will punish the wicked persons in the Lake of fire:

    “He, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” (Revelation 14:10-11 NIV)

    However, hell (the Lake of fire) doesn’t exist yet.

    From the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ (cf. II Peter 3:7 and 10), one thousand years will elapse then the Lake of fire will come into being:

    “(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)…When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth-Gog and Magog-to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:5, 7-10 NIV)

    According to the Bible, the "rest of the dead" will come to life after the "thousand years," and after that the "lake of fire" will come into being - "fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into lake if burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

    The Bible teaches two resurrections: the resurrection of life, and the resurrection of condemnation:

    “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth - those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” (John 5:28-29 NKJV)

    The resurrection of life is the First Resurrection, the resurrection on the day of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ:

    “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.” (I Thessalonians 4:16-17 NKJV)

    After those saved brought up and met the Lord, what will happen next is the destruction of the earth and everything in it and the perdition of ungodly men:

    “But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.” (II Peter 3:7,10 NKJV)

    One thousand years after the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus and the First Resurrection, the “rest of the dead” will come to life, but to be “thrown into the lake of burning sulfur" (see Rev. 14:9-11). They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Thus, hell (the Lake of fire) doesn’t exist yet, but one thousand years from the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus it will come into being.

    What will happen to a person when he dies?


    This is what the Bible says regarding the dead:

    “Adrift among the dead, Like the slain who lie in the grave, Whom You remember no more, And who are cut off from Your hand.” (Psalms 88:5 NKJV)

    The dead lies on his grave, and remember no more for the dead’s thoughts perish:

    “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalms 146:4 KJV)

    When a person dies, his breath cease, he return to earth, and his thoughts perish. Until when the dead will remain in the grave? When will the dead rise to receive judgment? Job 14:10-12 reads:

    “But man dies and is laid away; Indeed he breathes his last And where is he? As water disappears from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dries up, So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor be roused from their sleep.” (Job 14:10-12 NKJV)

    When man dies, according to the Bible, he “lies down and does not rise.” He will not rise to received judgment “Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor roused from their sleep.” The “passing away of heaven” was on the Day of the Lord, the Day of Judgment, the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ (cf. II Peter 3:7, 10).

    upload_2019-4-15_14-44-38.jpeg

    No one is suffering the fires of hell for now.

    Those who died whether they are:
    1. the wrongdoers
    2. the sexually immoral nor
    3. idolaters nor
    4. adulterers nor
    5. men who have sex with men nor
    6. thieves nor
    7. the greedy nor
    8. drunkards nor
    9. slanderers nor
    10. swindlers
    11. people who are engaging in sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like
    12. the cowardly,
    13. the unbelieving,
    14. the vile,
    15. the murderers,
    16. the sexually immoral,
    17. those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and
    18. all liars
    are still in the ....
    [​IMG]

    Marked or unmarked, it really doesn't matter.
    God's chosen people are also in their graves waiting for their resurrection.
    So if you are atheist or agnostic, you won't go straight to the fiery hell
    You worry too much.
    But when Jesus comes back...that would be another matter.
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Gehenna

    (originally Ge bene Hinnom; i.e., "the valley of the sons of Hinnom"), a deep, narrow glen to the south of Jerusalem, where the idolatrous Jews offered their children in sacrifice to Molech ( 2 Chronicles 28:3 ; 33:6 ; Jeremiah 7:31 ; 19:2-6 ).

    This valley afterwards became the common receptacle for all the refuse of the city. Here the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning.

    It thus in process of time became the image of the place of everlasting destruction. In this sense it is used by our Lord in Matthew 5:22 Matthew 5:29 Matthew 5:30 ; 10:28 ; 18:9 ; Matthew 23:15 Matthew 23:33 ; Mark 9:43 Mark 9:45 Mark 9:47 ; Luke 12:5 . In these passages, and also in James 3:6 , the word is uniformly rendered "hell," the Revised Version placing "Gehenna" in the margin. (See HELL; HINNOM .)
     
  13. mistoftime

    mistoftime Member

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    There is no evidence to support the existence of a hell or heaven, or any sort of afterlife.
     
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  14. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    In my experience there are many who cherry pick what they want to believe of the bible.
     
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  15. tigrers2019

    tigrers2019 Member

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    Definitely!

    They are seeking to be back in the family where they knew they belonged.....all along.
     
  16. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
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    I think Hell was invented to put the "fear of God" into people to keep them in line. Not only that, but it's meant to keep people passive by making them believe that God's justice will prevail in the end. This leads to the view that there's nothing people can or should do to change anything in this life, since God will punish evildoers in the end.
     
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  17. mistoftime

    mistoftime Member

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    This is why it is so important for people, including believers, to question what they are being told about matters of faith.
     
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  18. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
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    I am strongly believe in Allah mercy and justice.
    So,I said I am with temporary for people whom done evil ,there will be justice for sure.

    Only God knows :)
     
  19. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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  20. 1213

    1213 Active Member

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    Bible tells soul and body are destroyed in the hell. I think nothing that is destroyed lives or suffers.


    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Matt. 10:28

    And it is for unrighteous. And I believe it is for them, because they have shown they don’t want to use life for good, but would make eternal life eternal suffering, if they would be allowed to live forever.


    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

    Mat. 25:46

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 6:23
     
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