To Christians: When is Christ Returning?

[cataway]

I don't really know what Bahaivision is like. I just know that they keep talking about big government.
And the one big government that I see (the UN) is corrupt as hell. Rape, child abuse, collusion in the ivory trade (they have this nice ivory sculpture that they never got rid of), a real fiasco in Rwanda, buying up land for mysterious purposes, having people on the human rights council that shouldn't be there and are just using it as a shield. Oh yeah, and their climate change proposal would basically send most countries back to the stone age, while India and China don't adjust anything, and it would maybe adjust the temperature a hundredth of a degree if they bankrupted themselves for years. This is the UN plan, not the Bahai plan (I'm creeped out by Bahai too, but the UN has a literal map of the world in ten regions):

If anyone has read Revelation, and a mention about a beast with 10 horns, this ought to creep you out immediately.



Basically, this is why whether belief in world government is deceit or idealism, from what we have already seen of such government in unofficial world governments, I am not hopeful. I don't believe that even the most well-intentioned people can make an ideal, and deluded or outright evil people are more likely to take that position. Sorta a mix of power corrupts (absolutely) and what they taught me in Habitat for humanity. To paraphrase, unless God builds it, it's not gonna work.

My vision would be a loose set of nations in trade alliance with no larger delusions of state rule. In fact, I wrote a book (in the Literature section) where there was a Council, and the first thing this (slightly hypocritical) organization did was preventing big centalized organizations such empires or world leadership groups (even though they WERE a world leadership group ^_^ ). We don't need one group or one person to bring us peace, we need a sword to create national boundaries and keep them from being empires.

i was reading some thing about the UN .it was saying that the UN has intended planes to take over by the year 2030 . ya ok whatever . hummmm, we shall see .

 

[74x12]

neither does he use fire to kill or punish . fire is symbolic in scripture .
real fire destroys things, when fire burns things the things are gone. the use of symbolic fire means the same thing .

But, how do you prove it's just symbolic?

From how I read the scriptures it seems something more than symbolic.

 

[cataway]

But, how do you prove it's just symbolic?

From how I read the scriptures it seems something more than symbolic.

like from the book Revelation ?
Revelation 1:1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John. thats a good given that fire is symbolic

 

[MJFlores]

Who would come?

The return of the Son of man would come.
​

Who is the Son of Man?

Jesus was the Son of man. Baha'u'llah was the return of the Son of man.​

But of course you do not expect him, only Christians expect him to come back.

But of course you did not expect Baha'u'llah, you expected Jesus to come barreling down from the clouds.​

 

[MJFlores]

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[74x12]

like from the book Revelation ?
Revelation 1:1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John. thats a good given that fire is symbolic

Many other scriptures throughout the old and new Testaments point to God's use of fire in judgment. Yes, sometimes symbolic but not necessarily always. However, it makes no difference. Symbolic or not. God is a consuming fire and needs to be taken seriously. It's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Many other scriptures throughout the old and new Testaments point to God's use of fire in judgment. Yes, sometimes symbolic but not necessarily always. However, it makes no difference. Symbolic or not. God is a consuming fire and needs to be taken seriously. It's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Well, maybe this is something we can agree upon.

Baha'is also believe that God needs to be taken seriously and in our scriptures fire symbolizes hell, which is the state of a soul who is separated from God. Of course, paradise symbolizes heaven, the heaven of nearness to God. As the following passage says, we are not supposed to worship God to be delivered from the fire, but rather we should worship God for His own sake.

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise. Thus and thus alone should be the worship which befitteth the one True God. Shouldst thou worship Him because of fear, this would be unseemly in the sanctified Court of His presence, and could not be regarded as an act by thee dedicated to the Oneness of His Being. Or if thy gaze should be on paradise, and thou shouldst worship Him while cherishing such a hope, thou wouldst make God’s creation a partner with Him, notwithstanding the fact that paradise is desired by men.

Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.

Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God’s good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God’s favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 77-78

 

[David1967]

In the 19th century the Adventists watched for His coming and even sold their possessions and waited on Mount Carmel in Ascension robes.

It all ended in what many know as the Great Disappointment. Christ, they concluded had not returned.

Christians often quote the Bible referring to rumours of wars and such calamities as heralding the Second Coming yet whenever these things have occurred like the Great Lisbon earthquake, the dark day and shooting stars 1833 and even Halleys Comet they still insisted He hadn’t returned.
.

Since then we’ve had the First World War Still He didn’t come in their eyes. The Second World War Hes coming soon they say. The World trade centre and Tsunami and - yes He’s nearly here!

So it’s going on and on these delaying tactics and I believe it’s going to be the same with this virus. Christians are telling me now He’s almost here and when the virus has ended and Christ hasn’t floated down on a cloud in a magnificent light show then again we will be told He’s coming soon. This has become a regular denial no matter what sign occurs.

So why do Christian leaders keep delaying the coming of Christ? What are they so afraid of? Yes no one knows the day or the hour until He has come. Then it will be a known fact.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that He might bring a new Kingdom but appoint different leaders? The Jews were afraid of the Messiah as He was called King of the Jews so they feared for their temporal power. Is it also possible that priests and popes have feared for their temporal power even to the extent to be willing to deny Christ’s Return?

I really think that it’s become so ridiculous that many no longer take the second coming seriously anymore because it keeps being predicted then put off and delayed. A picture of complete confusion.

As to current circumstances Let’s reflect a bit. Did the flood come before or after Noah’s call to turn to God was ignored by the masses?

To me personally, every indication is there is a type of ‘flood’ happening now which to me suggests that another Noah has already appeared and as usual has been laughed at, mocked and scorned.

So it’s impossible another Noah or the Second Coming has already taken place? And the flood - is it once again upon us?

"To Christians: When is Christ Returning?"

tuesday

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"To Christians: When is Christ Returning?"

tuesday

Ahh that's why you missed it, it was a Wednesday.

Regards Tony

 

[1213]

… it is impossible for that to ever happen? ..

I would rather say it is improbable, but not impossible. Very few things are impossible, especially for God and this job is not the most improbable. I can see how it happens, but I am not going to tell it, because then someone could try to prevent it.

 

[David1967]

Ahh that's why you missed it, it was a Wednesday.

Regards Tony

Well, that explains the slow down in business today.

 

[Trailblazer]

I would rather say it is improbable, but not impossible. Very few things are impossible, especially for God.

True, if it is God's Will.

 

[cataway]

Well, maybe this is something we can agree upon.

Baha'is also believe that God needs to be taken seriously and in our scriptures fire symbolizes hell, which is the state of a soul who is separated from God. Of course, paradise symbolizes heaven, the heaven of nearness to God. As the following passage says, we are not supposed to worship God to be delivered from the fire, but rather we should worship God for His own sake.

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise. Thus and thus alone should be the worship which befitteth the one True God. Shouldst thou worship Him because of fear, this would be unseemly in the sanctified Court of His presence, and could not be regarded as an act by thee dedicated to the Oneness of His Being. Or if thy gaze should be on paradise, and thou shouldst worship Him while cherishing such a hope, thou wouldst make God’s creation a partner with Him, notwithstanding the fact that paradise is desired by men.

Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.

Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God’s good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God’s favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 77-78

'' fire symbolizes hell.'' hell is really nothing more than the grave.the place where the living put the dead. then because of the biological forces in the earth the body breaks down . in time the body is gone , destroyed.
no pain ,no torture, no wondering when the call will come to stand up again .

 

[Trailblazer]

'' fire symbolizes hell.'' hell is really nothing more than the grave.the place where the living put the dead. then because of the biological forces in the earth the body breaks down . in time the body is gone , destroyed.

I do not believe that hell is the grave. I believe that hell is the state of the soul that is distant from God, and conversely heaven is nearness to God. I believe that all souls are immortal so all souls continue to exist after the body dies and decomposes. Souls that were close to God will have eternal life as Jesus spoke of it. They gain eternal life through Jesus because that is how they know the one true God.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2” Some Answered Questions, p. 223

“Likewise, the rewards of the other world are the eternal life which is clearly mentioned in all the Holy Books, the divine perfections, the eternal bounties and everlasting felicity….The rewards of the other world are peace, the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 224-225

Those people who are distant from God do not have eternal life, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.” Some Answered Questions, p. 243

 

[CG Didymus]

I appreciate your thoughts, thanks.

Though, I think the incarnation of the Son of God, His amazing life on earth, and His resurrection to life after death which offers redemption and eternal life to all who trust Him is quite miraculous.

I’ve never considered that Jesus intended to create a religion, though many have turned what was supposed to be a living relationship with God through Christ into one. The first disciples and apostles seemed to understand this and it didn’t take them that long after His resurrection, the scriptures say they turned the world upside down.

You do know that Baha'is don't believe Jesus rose from the dead physically, just symbolically? They believe his body is dead, buried and his rotted away but his spirit lives on.

 

[CG Didymus]

Wonderful chapter indeed and it has all happened.

The two witnesses were Muhammad and Ali, they gave prophecy until the year AH1260 for 1260 years which is also the year 1844.

The 2nd Woe was the Bab and the 3rd to come quickly was Baha'u'llah.

This entire passage has been explained by God, via God's Messenger, in this day.

Regards Tony

Better explain all this again from Rev 11. As I recall you have quotes from Abdul Baha' about this. The problems for me are: I doubt they were clothed in sackcloth. I doubt if anyone who wanted to harm them died. The beast kills them, but that's not how Muhammad died and Ali died later. And who was the beast? The prophesy is specific on how many died in the earthquake. But... then it says that the 2nd Woe has passed? How was all this part of what The Bab did? Since Baha'is claim he was the 2nd Woe?
They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. Rev 11:

3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”
5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.
6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.
8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.
10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.
12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.​

 

[CG Didymus]

Jesus didn't write any of the gospels. We only have recording of what He said. The book of Revelation is no different in that regard. It's clearly Jesus speaking. The book of Revelation by the way is even called "the revelation of Jesus Christ" in Revelation 1:1.

I see that Trailblazer already posted some of the Baha'i explanation about the Two Witnesses. There is also a problem between Christians and Baha'is on who the "Lamb who was slain" is. The Baha'is answer I was given years ago was that The Bab is the Lamb that was slain. They say the Greek word is different the when Jesus is called a "lamb" and that he was crucified not "slain". Whereas The Bab was shot by a firing squad.

Other things they believe is that the Islamic leaders, the Umayyads and the Abbasids, were the beasts and the dragons. And it was one of the Umayyad leader that was the one that had a fatal wound. Plus, the number 666 they believe refers to the date when the Umayyads took power. Which I believe was 661AD. So the Baha'is add five years to that to make it 666. The five years comes from an estimated time of when Jesus was born.... that it wasn't year "0" but approximately 5 years before that. Too much for me to deep any deep research about. But by just scratching the surface I found a lot of things that were very problematic.

However, they do have the calculations of William Miller that eventually predicted that Christ would return in 1844. I still haven't seen a Christian tell me how his calculations were wrong.

 

[cataway]

the Baha'is think they know who the two witness are . sorry , but no

 

[TransmutingSoul]

However, they do have the calculations of William Miller that eventually predicted that Christ would return in 1844. I still haven't seen a Christian tell me how his calculations were wrong.

That would because to deny they can be used to point to the Bab, would also mean you would have to not use them for proving Christs first event. Both have the same foundation starting date of BC457, using the 70 and 69 weeks proves Jesus, using the 2300 year rebuild proves 1844, which also proves the year 1260 and gives clarity to over passages and ultimately prove Muhammad is foretold in the Bible.

I would ask, why would one not want to see that is so?

Regards Tony

 

[cataway]

I do not believe that hell is the grave. I believe that hell is the state of the soul that is distant from God, and conversely heaven is nearness to God. I believe that all souls are immortal so all souls continue to exist after the body dies and decomposes. Souls that were close to God will have eternal life as Jesus spoke of it. They gain eternal life through Jesus because that is how they know the one true God.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2” Some Answered Questions, p. 223

“Likewise, the rewards of the other world are the eternal life which is clearly mentioned in all the Holy Books, the divine perfections, the eternal bounties and everlasting felicity….The rewards of the other world are peace, the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 224-225

Those people who are distant from God do not have eternal life, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.” Some Answered Questions, p. 243

all i have to do is tell you . i dont have to make you believe .
Hell a word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew sheʼohlʹ and the Greek haiʹdes. In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from sheʼohlʹ 31 times and from haiʹdes 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheʼohlʹ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version sheʼohlʹ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once.