Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Indeed, that is what hell is, it is like being buried in the grave of ignorance of God. It is like a black pit.
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To Christians: When is Christ Returning?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
74x12
Well-Known Member
Bahai's pick out Bible verses that they think fit their beliefs. They ignore contradictory ones ... The Word of God is not a buffet line. (Matthew 4:4)
I believe in the God of Israel. The God of the Bible. So I believe the whole thing. Jesus said that not one jot or tittle will fail until all is fulfilled. That's how Jesus Himself viewed the scriptures.
From the Biblical perspective it is the satan/serpent that always tries to call God's Word into question. The age old question "Is it true that God hath said ...?" Which calls into question the Word of God. In the temptation Jesus answered satan always with "It is written ..."
So the Word of God has to be relied on completely.
I believe in the God of Israel. The God of the Bible. So I believe the whole thing. Jesus said that not one jot or tittle will fail until all is fulfilled. That's how Jesus Himself viewed the scriptures.
From the Biblical perspective it is the satan/serpent that always tries to call God's Word into question. The age old question "Is it true that God hath said ...?" Which calls into question the Word of God. In the temptation Jesus answered satan always with "It is written ..."
So the Word of God has to be relied on completely.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Actually, real fire has two functions. People who live in the city are far less likely to understand this, as they never work with fire (probably why more of them are atheists). First, fire purifies things. The song "How Firm A Foundation" mentions not once but twice that even if we see fires or Hell, we shouldn't be afraid. God will never forsake us, and we are told that flames will not consume us but rather refine the dross out. Second, fish makes ash. Ash is useful for making soap ( add water to filter out lye, then add fat or oil), and can also be mixed in with compost material or added straight to plants favoring acidic soil.
When the Bible mentions burning this is not an complete destruction, but something more akin to the Buddhist idea of rebirth, which as uses a flame metaphor. The garbage burns up and is refined until something new is made.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
With all due respect I think that is what Christians do.
cataway
Well-Known Member
well there is a difference in those that are ,and those that think they are.With all due respect I think that is what Christians do.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Does it? Well there you go... spell it out for the Christians here and see what they say.That would because to deny they can be used to point to the Bab, would also mean you would have to not use them for proving Christs first event.
I would ask, why would one not want to see that is so?
Regards Tony
cataway
Well-Known Member
gee ya only missed it by 70 yearsThat would because to deny they can be used to point to the Bab, would also mean you would have to not use them for proving Christs first event.
I would ask, why would one not want to see that is so?
Regards Tony
Yes and I say let them keep looking. Not up to me to change their mind.
Regards Tony
Had those conversations many time with my JW friend.
You may not be aware, but back in even the 1980's, 1844 was still seen as having fulfilled the Prophecy and was still quoted by the older JW following .
My guess is 1914 became popular after it became clear that it clashed with the Glory of God, that there was a good case for the Bab and 1844. As the conversations went real quite with my JW friends.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know what they will say, I know because they always say the same thing -- you are wrong.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Because they want it to be the same man Jesus, not Baha'ullah. It is as simple as that, nothing complicated.
cataway
Well-Known Member
did any thing world shaking take place in 1844? no , i checked . fact of the matter is the world went mad in the year 1914. with that information it is possible ,to back check ,to see where mistakes were made. it was actually figured out before 1914. some thing was going to happen . but what?? it turned out to be war. world war! which fit really well with what Jesus said would happen.;Had those conversations many time with my JW friend.
You may not be aware, but back in even the 1980's, 1844 was still seen as having fulfilled the Prophecy and was still quoted by the older JW following .
My guess is 1914 became popular after it became clear that it clashed with the Glory of God, that there was a good case for the Bab and 1844. As the conversations went real quite with my JW friends.
Regards Tony
Matthew 24:6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.''
Jesus also said Matthew 24:4
"Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many"
some would come saying they are the Christ others would come saying Jesus is the Christ but would misrepresent him ,saying things that are not true . call him God ,making him equal to God. its something very prevalent in so-called christian religions of today
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Maybe you did not check that thoroughly. Something earthshaking did happen in 1844 and it was in the headlines. People just did not know what precipitated it, not until much later when the Baha’i Faith was born.
What hath God Wrought? 24 May 1844
We live in the most remarkable of times. The transformation of the material conditions of humanity has a cause. Do we really believe that the human beings who came before us were incapable of what we see in the world today? Great civilizations have come before in history – yet none of them broke out of the same reality that has existed since the dawn of agriculture.
It is only in this time that humanity has passed into an entirely new reality. It has a cause. A cause larger than humanity itself.
In 1844, in Shiraz, the Bab, Baha’u’llah’s immediate forerunner, spoke these words:
The secret of the Day that is to come is now concealed. It can neither be divulged nor estimated. The newly born babe of that Day excels the wisest and most venerable men of this time, and the lowliest and most unlearned of that period shall surpass in understanding the most erudite and accomplished divines of this age.[1]
A short time before, on the other side of the planet on 24 May 1844, within a day of the Bab’s declaration of his mission, Samuel Morse, the inventor of the telegraph sent its first message from Washington to Baltimore. The message read as follows: What hath God Wrought? , citing a passage from the Bible.
cataway
Well-Known Member
well gee just for the sake of argument lets say it did . then we read Jesus' words
Matthew 24:8 “Look out that nobody misleads you; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many''
what Jesus said, did not have to come true in any particular order.
there are many that misrepresent who Jesus really is .saying he IS God or that he is equal to God. yet all that started l o n g before 1844.
yet once it caught on it is very pronounced today
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is why we should not believe any of the pretenders to be Christ, so if any man comes and says he is Christ, we should not believe him. Baha'u'llah did not claim to be Christ, He claimed to be the return of the Christ Spirit, a man with a new name.
Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Jesus Christ was Herald of the Kingdom, but Baha'ullah came with a new mission, a mission to complete the work Jesus started, to build the Kingdom of God on earth.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, that started a long time ago, at councils such as Nicaea.
Christians believed that Jesus was God because they knew He was more than an ordinary man, and they did not understand that He was a Manifestation of God, not God incarnate.
However, Jesus never claimed to be God or equal to God, He disclaimed that in many verses. He told people to worship only God yet to this day Christians still worship Jesus as God.
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
pingpongpal
New Member
The scripture in Colossians 1:5b, 6 says "the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you hear of and understood the grace of God in truth." Jesus says the end shall come when the gospel is preached the whole world in Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come." Paul in Colossians said that the gospel had already gone throughout the whole world, oikoumene. The Greek word which is translated world is oikuemene which means inhabited earth or specifically, the Roman Empire. I believe that when Jesus spoke of the end, He meant the end of the Jewish economy and the sacrificial system which would have been 70 AD when Jerusalem and the temple were burned. I believe this is the coming that Jesus is talking about in Matthew 10: 23 "But whenever they persecute you in this city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." He alludes to it again in Matthew 22: 7 "But the king was enraged and sent his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and set their city on fire." Therefore, I believe that there are many comings of Jesus when He comes to judge nations. The "Battle Hymn of the Republic" speaks of Jesus coming to judge our nation for allowing slavery: Mine have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord... The final coming or the second coming as many refer to it occurs when all of Jesus' enemies are made a footstool for His feet according to I Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. and Heb 10: 12,13 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,
waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. I believe that the church brings the world into Jesus Christ, then He comes. The church does not fail that Jesus completes the task as many believe. So I believe that Jesus is waiting for us to make His enemies a footstool for His feet.
JesusKnowsYou
Active Member
This is pure speculation on my part but I believe that the revelatory aspect of the Holy Spirit will convey the moment of the Lord's return to all the people on the Earth in real time.
They will see it as if they themselves were physically present, they will feel it in their hearts and know it in their minds.
Bearing testimony to our minds and hearts of the living reality of the Lord Jesus Christ has been one of the main purposes of the Holy Spirit since before the Earth was made.
No - I do not think or believe that.
I said that everyone will see and know Him.
I never said that everyone on Earth would decide to believe in or follow Him.
I never said that they would.
I believe that the non-believers will be a minority at that time - but I do believe that they will exist.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nobody can ever replace Jesus.
Baha'u'llah did not come to replace Jesus, He came to complete the work Jesus started.