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Featured To Christians: When is Christ Returning?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by loverofhumanity, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    In the 19th century the Adventists watched for His coming and even sold their possessions and waited on Mount Carmel in Ascension robes.

    It all ended in what many know as the Great Disappointment. Christ, they concluded had not returned.

    Christians often quote the Bible referring to rumours of wars and such calamities as heralding the Second Coming yet whenever these things have occurred like the Great Lisbon earthquake, the dark day and shooting stars 1833 and even Halleys Comet they still insisted He hadn’t returned.
    .

    Since then we’ve had the First World War Still He didn’t come in their eyes. The Second World War Hes coming soon they say. The World trade centre and Tsunami and - yes He’s nearly here!

    So it’s going on and on these delaying tactics and I believe it’s going to be the same with this virus. Christians are telling me now He’s almost here and when the virus has ended and Christ hasn’t floated down on a cloud in a magnificent light show then again we will be told He’s coming soon. This has become a regular denial no matter what sign occurs.

    So why do Christian leaders keep delaying the coming of Christ? What are they so afraid of? Yes no one knows the day or the hour until He has come. Then it will be a known fact.

    Could it have anything to do with the fact that He might bring a new Kingdom but appoint different leaders? The Jews were afraid of the Messiah as He was called King of the Jews so they feared for their temporal power. Is it also possible that priests and popes have feared for their temporal power even to the extent to be willing to deny Christ’s Return?

    I really think that it’s become so ridiculous that many no longer take the second coming seriously anymore because it keeps being predicted then put off and delayed. A picture of complete confusion.

    As to current circumstances Let’s reflect a bit. Did the flood come before or after Noah’s call to turn to God was ignored by the masses?

    To me personally, every indication is there is a type of ‘flood’ happening now which to me suggests that another Noah has already appeared and as usual has been laughed at, mocked and scorned.

    So it’s impossible another Noah or the Second Coming has already taken place? And the flood - is it once again upon us?
     
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  2. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    My idea, from reading what some Christians wrote, is, that some Christians believe, that Jesus will come if ALL humans have heard about Jesus, hence it is, that so many Christians are so big on evangelizing.

    My personal thought is "Heaven will be on Earth (Jesus has returned), not just when all people have heard of Jesus, but when all people are putting the Teachings of Jesus in practice. For starters: 1) Do not judge others (who have different views) + 2) Love thy neighbor as thyself (even if he believes differently)

    So, that might take a day or two, before the Christians are ready to receive Jesus; in my view.
     
    #2 stvdv, Mar 30, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  3. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Just to keep the Church from not completely going empty

    All leaders are only afraid of a few things:
    1) Loss of money
    2) Loss of power
    3) Loss of control

    Agreed. But still the people in the Churches buy this talk, so it's like economics ... when there is demand, there will be supply
     
  4. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I agree of course:D

    Not sure, maybe another Noah already came. When baby now, it takes ca. 20 years before ready to "do His thing", I think.
     
  5. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    We don't know when but we know it is near.
    It is a...

    [​IMG]

    Jesus Christ himself do not know when.
    Not even the angels in heaven do not know when.
    Matthew 24:36 Mark 13:32

    The important thing for a Christian is to make a check list:
    1) How sure am I that I am saved or unknowingly an antichrist?
    2) Do I know Jesus Christ the right way or the wrong way?
    3) Are my sins forgiven or unforgiven?
    4) Does Jesus know me or never knew me?
    5) Am I a sheep or a goat?
     
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  6. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Then that will never happen because there will always be people who have not heard of Jesus. The newly born? My understanding is that the knowledge of Jesus must have spread to all continents and all nations and that happened a long time ago.

    “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come” (Matt 24:14)
     
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  7. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    This is an interesting verse
    It contains the highest advaita wisdom, but I am sure 99% of the Christian will not see this
     
  8. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    That’s the problem with that view I believe. We will of course know once He has come. Not before. But once He has come we will know. But Jesus always said those with eyes to see and ears to ear yet we all have eyes and ears so He seemed to be speaking about spiritual eyes and spiritual understanding.


    All eyes will see Him, those eyes which are open of course and looking because He said to watch. If we all automatically saw His Coming then there’s no point telling us to watch as He would come like a thief and we could miss His Coming entirely like the zjews did the first time.

    And what about those who don’t ‘watch’ ? Simple. They miss His Coming. That’s my humble opinion.

    So I can see the scenario where the majority say He hasn’t come and a small minority who Did recognise Him are saying He has. Is this the separation of the sheep from the goats Jesus spoke of?
     
  9. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    It never stopped. Life on Earth always had wars, disasters and always Christ
    would be coming. Christ comes to individuals when they are capable to see Christ in them.
     
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  10. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I don’t think it is possible to read the book of Revelation and the conditions described there while coming to the conclusion that we are in the midst of a ” flood “ or God’s judgement or that Christ has arrived.

    When Christ returns I don’t think there will be any question, doubt or confusion. The confusion comes now because “Christian” leaders or false teachers too often have chosen to ignore the clear point in the Bible that no one knows the day or the hour (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32).

    My thoughts, from what I see in the scriptures, are that Jesus removes His church, composed of only those who are born again believers (Jews and mostly Gentiles/ non-Jews). When the last last person who will believe the gospel and place their faith in Christ, believes this will occur...
    For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of-the Gentiles has come in.
    Romans 11:25

    This happens unexpectedly as the scriptures say ... the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect ( Matthew 24: 44) and as a thief in the night ( 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4). There are other scriptures which indicate the “coming “ of Christ to remove the church to meet Him in the clouds is a different unexpected event from His “return” to the earth when every eye will see Him coming ( Matthew 24:30; Revelation 1:7) to save Israel, the world from total destruction and establish His kingdom and reign from Jerusalem.

    I see the scriptures indicating that the Day of the Lord begins when the church is removed and caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds (1Thessalonians 4: 16-17), God’s focus then is upon Israel and dealing with the sinful world, the Antichrist world leader who arises during the seven year tribulation, also called Jacob’s trouble. This Day of the Lord is completed upon the return of Christ to the earth.

    Just my thoughts. Maybe you would be interested in the following link...



    Pre- or Post-Trib Rapture?
     
  11. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I would say not before this has hapenned:

    This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
    Matt. 24:14

    But the end may be slow process that takes more than few seconds. So, be patient and don’t worry, it will come eventually. :)
     
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  12. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    a lot of you people are not going to like it
     
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I hope you do not mind if I respond to this even though I am not a Christian.

    In the New Testament, Jesus said we would see the Son of man coming in the clouds (Mark 13:26, Mark 14:62, Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64).

    The title Son of man ultimately comes from the Book of Daniel, where it refers to the Messiah, and is frequently used in the Gospels as a title of Jesus. Presumably the title is symbolic of the perfect humanity that Jesus represented.

    It was assumed by Christians that the Son of man referred to the same man Jesus who was resurrected and ascended into the clouds but there is no reason to believe that the title Son of man applies exclusively to Jesus.

    Jesus said that we would see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

    Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

    Jesus did not say "you will see me coming in the clouds."

    Jesus never promised to return, not once in the NT, so there is no reason to believe that Jesus would ever return. In fact, Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world and He was going to the Father.

    John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

    John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

    The common argument I get from Christians is that Jesus was resurrected, so that was a game changer because now Jesus is still alive and can return from heaven to earth.


    However, that is not a game changer because we still have no verses wherein Jesus ever promised to return to earth. Rather, we have verses where Jesus says His work is finished here and He is no more in the world.
     
  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    “Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?” (Matthew 24:3)

    This verse is found in the twenty–fourth chapter of Matthew. Christ then gave His disciples in the following words:

    “But he that shall endure until the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness … then shall the end come.” (Matthew 24:13)

    This was clear enough. The end would come, and Christ would return, when His Gospel was preached throughout the world.

    My next step was to discover when the Gospel of Christ was considered to have been preached throughout the world.

    A study of the spread of Christianity made by scholars of the 1840’s, convinced them that the message of Christ had, by their day, already encircled the globe. The Gospel was being taught in all the continents. By 1844 it was being taught even in the interior of Africa, not by solitary missionaries, but on an organized scale. A commercial history of East Africa states: “Christian missions began their activities amongst the African people in 1844. (Year Book and Guide to East Africa, Ed. by Robert Hale Ltd., London, 1953, p. 44)

    Dr D. L. Leonard, historian of the Mission movement, in his A Hundred Years of Missions, says of the spread of the Word of Christ and His Gospel: “… for the first time since the apostolic period, (there) occurred an outburst of general missionary zeal and activity.”

    He is speaking of the last years of the eighteenth century, leading to the nineteenth century, to 1844, and beyond. “Beginning in Great Britain, it soon spread to the Continent and across the Atlantic. It was no mere push of fervour, but a mighty tide set in, which from that day to this has been steadily rising and spreading.”

    Another account states: “In 1804 the British and Foreign Bible Society was organised. Students of the prophetic word felt at the time that these agencies were coming in fulfilment of the prophecy.” (Our Day in the Light of Prophecy, Spicer, p. 308.)

    This was a direct reference to the prophecy of Christ that He would return when His gospel was preached everywhere in the world.

    Before 1804, the Bible had already been printed and circulated in fifty languages. In 1816 the American Bible Society was formed. George Storrs in the newspaper, Midnight Cry, on 4 May 1843, stated that these two societies (British and American) with their innumerable branches were spreading the Gospel of Christ in every part of the world.

    G. S. Faber in Eight Dissertations, which was completed in the very year of greatest prophetic fervour, 1844, declares: “The stupendous endeavours of one gigantic community to convey the Scriptures in every language to every part of the globe may well deserve to be considered as an eminent sign even of these eventful times. Unless I be much mistaken, such endeavours are preparatory to the final grand diffusion of Christianity, which is the theme of so many inspired prophets, and which cannot be far distant in the present day.’

    M. H. Goyer writes in his book on prophetic fulfilment: “The British and Foreign Bible Society (for one example) has issued, since its foundation in1804, over 421 million copies of the Scriptures, in practically every country known throughout the globe.”

    In Our Day in the Light of Prophecy, Spicer wrote that the Gospel in his day had been spread ‘to ninety-five per cent of the inhabitants of the earth.’ He added: “It was in 1842 that five treaty-ports in China were open to commerce and to missions—advance steps in the opening of all China to the Gospel. In 1844 Turkey was prevailed upon to recognise the right of the Moslems to become Christians, reversing all Moslem tradition. In 1844 Alan Gardiner established the South American Mission. In 1842 Livingstone’s determination was formed to open the African interior.”

    Dr A. T. Pierson in Modern Mission Century wrote: “India, Siam, Burma, China, Japan, Turkey, Africa, Mexico, South America … were successively and successfully entered. Within five years, from 1853 to 1858, new facilities were given to the entrance and occupation of seven different countries, together embracing half the world’s population.”

    There were many additional references which made it clear that the Gospel of Christ, and its teachers, had entered every continent by the year 1844, spreading the Word of Jesus the Christ throughout the world.

    This was considered by the students of Scripture to be in exact fulfilment of the words of Christ given in Mark:

    “And the gospel must first be published among all nations.” (Mark 13:10)

    http://bahai-library.com/pdf/s/sears_thief_night.pdf
     
  15. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    some times to ''see'' means to understand . do you see what i mean ?
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No I do not see what you mean because there is no context.
    Understand what? o_O
     
  17. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.'' who's words ?
     
  18. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    The Pharisees and Sadducees claimed to know their scriptures yet not only missed recognising Christ but had Him crucified. I personally believe that Christians have made the same mistake and are flouting themselves as experts that couldn’t be wrong about the Second Coming yet they too have missed it completely and are in denial that they could ever be wrong like the Jewish priests.

    The message coming form over 40;000 competing Christians sects is that they are exclusively saved and others are not. It was this kind of closed mindedness that led the Jews to deny Jesus when He first came and it seems it has been repeated again today and led to Christians rejecting the Second Coming which I believe took place a long time ago.
     
  19. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    For one thing... I have yet to hear one Christian refute William Miller's calculations that put the date as 1844. So that's on them.

    Now just a couple of problems for Baha'is... do you even believe the Flood literally happened?

    Then we have the problems of how many "Christ's" are going to return. Were there wars and rumors of wars and famines and earthquakes and plagues before Muhammad came? Yes. Which proves what? Nothing... only that it's the dumbest prophesy ever. Those things have never stopped happening. So toss that out.

    What else was the "true" Messiah supposed to do? Did Jesus, Muhammad, The Bab, or Baha'u'llah fulfill those prophecies? Did they all fulfill all of them or did each just fulfill some of them? Was it prophesied there would be four "Messiahs"? And, for the most part, all of them would be rejected by the Jews? And why would they be rejected? I think the reason is that not one of them fulfill the prophecy about establishing peace. Only Baha'u'llah has a chance at someday having his teaching bring peace. But, right now, he hasn't even brought peace, just more wars and rumors of wars.

    Anyway, great thread.
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Those are the words of Jesus, but Jesus did not say "you will see me coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

    Jesus said 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.''

    Jesus did not say 31 And I will send out my angels with a great trumpet sound, and I will gather my chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.'

    Mark 13:24-26 ”But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

    Rev 6:12-13 “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.”


    These three events would take place successively, each one in turn heralding a closer approach of the footsteps of the Messiah, until, shortly after the last of the three, the star-fall, He would appear.....

    These prophecies gave already been fulfilled in the exact order predicted.

    1. The Lisbon earthquake, 1755. 1755 Lisbon earthquake

    2. The Dark Day, 1780. New England's Dark Day

    3. The Falling Stars, 1833. The Falling of the Stars
     
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