Time to revisit the veil question.

[firedragon]

Then why the dictates to cover up women in Islam?

Why do you claim it's because "Men are horny"? After claiming it and ridiculing other peoples religions with no care or decency, you cannot just ask "then why". It's a cheap thing to do.

When you make such a claim, prove it. Prove with research, study and scholarship that if men sieze to be horny this covering thing is not necessary, and if men have the capacity to be "not horny" in other countries or places where women go almost naked and its all nice and cool, and what ever options and choices there are. Make a proper analysis.

Lets see if you have any of that or are just looking to insult and be happy.

 

[Colt]

Why do you claim it's because "Men are horny"? After claiming it and ridiculing other peoples religions with no care or decency, you cannot just ask "then why". It's a cheap thing to do.

When you make such a claim, prove it. Prove with research, study and scholarship that if men sieze to be horny this covering thing is not necessary, and if men have the capacity to be "not horny" in other countries or places where women go almost naked and its all nice and cool, and what ever options and choices there are. Make a proper analysis.

Lets see if you have any of that or are just looking to insult and be happy.

You can do your own research about the issue sexual assault of women and boys among Muslim Men in the Middle East in particular. Arab men seem to be more cave man like which is reflected in their treatment of women.

This form may not want links to the many articles on the subject.

Sexual Assault During Hajj: Will #MosqueMeToo Lead to Reforms in Mecca? | Center for Religion and Civic Culture (usc.edu)

Sexual Assault During Hajj: Will #MosqueMeToo Lead to Reforms in Mecca?

 

[firedragon]

You can do your own research

Make a bogus claim, insult for growing up pleasure, then when asked for study, tell the other "do your own research". Too lame.

This form may not want links to the many articles on the subject.

Sexual Assault During Hajj: Will #MosqueMeToo Lead to Reforms in Mecca? | Center for Religion and Civic Culture (usc.edu)

It's good for cheap, lame children in big boots.

 

[Colt]

Make a bogus claim, insult for growing up pleasure, then when asked for study, tell the other "do your own research". Too lame.


It's good for cheap, lame children in big boots.

Your defensiveness suggests that you know about this issue? The degradation of women in Islam is an age-old historic fact!

Again, why do Muslims in some countries desire to keep their women's heads and even full bodies coverup up in public?

 

[firedragon]

Your defensiveness suggests that you know about this issue? The degradation of women in Islam is an age-old historic fact!

Again, why do Muslims in some countries desire to keep their women's heads and even full bodies coverup up in public?

View attachment 67342

Let me give you another keyword to do a google search.

"How could I spread hatred towards a set of people on the internet"

Good source of scholarship for you.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Again, why do Muslims in some countries desire to keep their women's heads and even full bodies coverup up in public?

You're asking the wrong question.
It would be wiser to ask "Why do pious Muslim ladies cover their female attributes, of their own free-will?"

..and no, the answer is not cultural ..
We didn't see the Queen of England displaying "her parts" like many westerners do nowadays.
It is about belief/faith, and not what you are saying.

We are fighting a losing battle in the world today.
Western secular values have spread worldwide.
Some govts. / regimes respond with "morality police".

They are clutching at straws, imo. Nobody can stop armageddon.

 

[stevecanuck]

I notice that you ignore my post #54

Despite legal requirements and prevalence in certain regions, most Islamic scholars and most contemporary Islamic jurists have agreed that Islam does not require women to cover their faces.
Burqa - Wikipedia

I have not ignored the fact that the topic is a subject of debate. In fact, if you look at the OP, you'll see this thread is based on that fact. However, you and others have ignored my very specific questions, so I'll repeat them:

- "I think it's safe to assume that a Muslim women would already be modestly dressed in her father-in-law's presence." Yes or no?

- "so to insist on even further coverage when outside the house is consistent with saying that she must bring her head covering down as far as her already covered bosoms." Yes or no?

- "which, by definition, would also cover her face." Yes or no?

 

[stevecanuck]

Always attack the worst case, ignore other versions and declare a win, because you have won, because your type of attack.

What are you on about? Show me an "attack". I'm simply quoting the Qur'an, giving my take on what less than clear passages say, and inviting comment.

 

[stevecanuck]

Then why the dictates to cover up women in Islam? It's the men who made the religion while women are mistreated and looked down on as second-class citizens.

All the LIV golfers should be forced to watch the actions of their new best friends. (Okay, way off topic, but still ....).

 

[stevecanuck]

You're asking the wrong question.
It would be wiser to ask "Why do pious Muslim ladies cover their female attributes, of their own free-will?"

The only thing you know for sure when you see a fully covered Muslim woman is that the man who controls her is pious. You will never know her true feelings because she would suffer badly if she were ever discovered to be admitting she doesn't want to dress like that.

 

[Colt]

You're asking the wrong question.
It would be wiser to ask "Why do pious Muslim ladies cover their female attributes, of their own free-will?"

..and no, the answer is not cultural ..
We didn't see the Queen of England displaying "her parts" like many westerners do nowadays.
It is about belief/faith, and not what you are saying.

We are fighting a losing battle in the world today.
Western secular values have spread worldwide.
Some govts. / regimes respond with "morality police".

They are clutching at straws, imo. Nobody can stop armageddon.

Before the Islamic revolution, by men and for men, women didn't seem to want to wear a sheet to go out in public?

 

[Colt]

Let me give you another keyword to do a google search.

"How could I spread hatred towards a set of people on the internet"

Good source of scholarship for you.

I googled religious hatred and came up with the book "Milestones" by Syed Qutb Shaheed and his Neo Islamic Fundamentalism.

 

[firedragon]

I googled religious hatred and came up with the book "Milestones" by Syed Qutb Shaheed and his Neo Islamic Fundamentalism.

Ah. Great research on the topic of "how to spread hatred". Maybe this book might help you spread some more hatred.

Good going. Good research.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I have not ignored the fact that the topic is a subject of debate. In fact, if you look at the OP, you'll see this thread is based on that fact. However, you and others have ignored my very specific questions, so I'll repeat them:

- "I think it's safe to assume that a Muslim women would already be modestly dressed in her father-in-law's presence." Yes or no?

- "so to insist on even further coverage when outside the house is consistent with saying that she must bring her head covering down as far as her already covered bosoms." Yes or no?

- "which, by definition, would also cover her face." Yes or no?

What is this? A kindergarten?
Don't you think it's rude to treat people as if they are in the dock?

No, no and no!
I am with the majority who consider face-covering as voluntary.
As far as I'm concerned, "what is apparent" includes the face.

If a woman gets stared at all the time [she might be very attractive etc.], she might prefer to cover her face.
Her choice.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, there are further considerations.
A woman should not be alone with a man[non-mahram] except in a public place.
[when technically she isn't alone]

..hence the "hijab verse", regards being behind a curtain etc.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The only thing you know for sure when you see a fully covered Muslim woman is that the man who controls her is pious. You will never know her true feelings because she would suffer badly if she were ever discovered to be admitting she doesn't want to dress like that.

That's total nonsense.
There are plenty of westernised Muslims in the world who don't give a hoot what anybody thinks.
..and there are still plenty of ladies who care what God thinks.

Your mind is poisoned, mate. You have absolutely no idea.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Before the Islamic revolution, by men and for men, women didn't seem to want to wear a sheet to go out in public?

Is Afghanistan the only nation in the world that has a large number of Muslims?
I don't agree with compulsion. It doesn't work.

The problems in Afghanistan are complex.
Village priests without a broad education due to poverty and Russia and US influence, corruption and so on.

The world is in a mess. Anybody can act arrogantly .. religious or otherwise.
Those that try to defame God, by pointing at people or struggling nations will come to know.
For SURE, they will come to know.

 

[stevecanuck]

No, no and no!

This is a perfect example of how apologists will disingenuously deny that which doesn't fit their narrative, regardless of how obviously absurd said denial is.

I asked three questions to which you answered "no", starting with this - I think it's safe to assume that a Muslim women would already be modestly dressed in her father-in-law's presence. Yes or no?

In order to stay in auto-denial mode, you felt obligated to answer a stunning "no". Really? Could it be more obvious that you're so invested in contradicting anything I say that you will actually suggest that a Muslim women would dress in any manner other than modest in front of her own father-in-law?

 

[muhammad_isa]

In order to stay in auto-denial mode, you felt obligated to answer a stunning "no". Really?

You haven't a clue.
It's alright if a man sees his daughter-in-law in her nightie.
You don't know what you are talking about.

..just give it up.

 

[stevecanuck]

That's total nonsense.
There are plenty of westernised Muslims in the world who don't give a hoot what anybody thinks.
..and there are still plenty of ladies who care what God thinks.

Your mind is poisoned, mate. You have absolutely no idea.

Then why can so many women in Muslim countries be found in older photos to NOT be fully covered?

If women were fully free to wear their own concept of 'modest dress', you know that many of them would shed the full-body covering.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If women were fully free to wear their own concept of 'modest dress', you know that many of them would shed the full-body covering.

Why would they do that?