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Time to revisit the veil question.

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
The death of Mahsa Amini in Iran and resulting demonstrations have people yet again debating what the Qur'an says about veiling. I had a closer look at two verses on the subject, and although a less ambiguous directive from Allah would have saved a lot of uncertainty, it looks to me as though the Qur'an does indeed encourage full-body covering, as opposed to merely 'modest' dress.

The word for word translation of verse 33:59 (The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran) says that believing woman should "draw over themselves their outer garments" so that they "should be known and not harmed".

The first underlined phrase seems to define an extra, outer layer of covering, and the second supports that interpretation by indicating that the degree of body coverage should be obvious enough to make Muslim women stand out from others.

Verse 24:31 is long-winded and harder to follow, but it also commands Muslim women to cover themselves to a greater degree than they do at home. They are told to, "draw their headcovers over their bosoms", and to not "display their adornment" except to family members and household staff. The inclusion of non-blood male relatives, such as fathers-in-law and nephews, in the list of those to whom a woman may "display her adornment" is crucial to defining the difference between acceptable dress in the home vs. when out. I think it's safe to assume that a Muslim women would already be modestly dressed in her father-in-law's presence, so to insist on even further coverage when outside the house is consistent with saying that she must bring her head covering down as far as her already covered bosoms, which, by definition, would also cover her face.

IMO, those verses are more suggestive of full-body veiling than not.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The only thing I have any opinion on is that according to Islam, men and women should dress modestly to avoid invoking lust.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
..so why is it disallowed for a lady to cover her face in Haj?

Because she's with ONLY Muslims. We dirty, lecherous infidels would never see her face and therefore be overtaken by uncontrollable lust.

No comment on the actual details of the post?
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
The only thing I have any opinion on is that according to Islam, men and women should dress modestly to avoid invoking lust.

Yeah, but in Denmark for our in effect culturally mixed young Muslims that is fun to watch how to do modest and lust in combination. Some of them for both sexes has that down to an art.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
The only thing I have any opinion on is that according to Islam, men and women should dress modestly to avoid invoking lust.

That is exactly the topic of this thread - the difference between modest dress vs. full-body veiling.

The fact that you didn't address a single point I made is noted.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
That is exactly the topic of this thread - the difference between modest dress vs. full-body veiling.

The fact that you didn't address a single point I made is noted.

Well, if you want to be sure it is modest, then only full-body will do and even that has to be be to a certain standard.

But for modern Western Muslims they can do both, modest and lust.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
No .. read it again..

Why is it disallowed for a lady to cover her face in Haj?

@stevecanuck says it's because there's no non-Muslims there,
which is obvious rubbish :)

Yeah, I have no opinion on that.
Now here is what I have observed. Face open, but otherwise full body clothing, but see through and inside body hugging clothes. So both modest and lust. I just love it.
 
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