Time is an Illusion

[ChristineM]

its just a blurb quote from a song. is my mind here in past present, or future present? seems it flows either direction.




ChristineM, "Another, related to the last is times arrow, entropy."


man can only repeat what is possible in nature. energy flows to and fro like the ocean

Possible possibly, occuring no. The start conditions were laid down 13.8 (ish) billion years ago.

Times arrow can only (possibly*) be reversed by altering start conditions. That aint gonna happen to the isolated system known as the universe.

* The experiment didnt reverse time, it reversed heat flow.

 

[Fool]

Possible possibly, occuring no. The start conditions were laid down 13.8 (ish) billion years ago.

Times arrow can only (possibly*) be reversed by altering start conditions. That aint gonna happen to the isolated system known as the universe.

* The experiment didnt reverse time, it reversed heat flow.

the experiment isn't supernatural. no it didn't reverse time but it did reverse entropy.

Entropy is the only quantity in the physical sciences (apart from certain rare interactions in particle physics; see below) that requires a particular direction for time, sometimes called an arrow of time.

yes i understand that it reversed heat flow.

MIT wouldn't print anything that they would consider bogus

Physicists have demonstrated how to reverse of the arrow of time

 

[Ponder This]

strange thing.....you make a declaration in your opening line
and then demonstrate reason that negates it

we measure distance.....the units are a cognitive device
we measure movement against the movement of something else (a clock)
time is a quotient
numbers.....
in your head

all motion is relative.....we do measurement to get a grip on the reality of it

'measurement' is 'the action of measuring something' or 'the size, length, or amount of something, as established by measuring' or 'a unit or system of measuring'.

If Time is a measurement, then what does it measure? Time isn't a measurement. Seconds are a measurement. What do seconds measure? Seconds measure Time.

What I ask, 'how much time'? Someone might respond, 'five seconds'. If you ask, 'what is a second', I might respond, 'the second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom' or I might say, 'it is 1/86400th of a day'. And maybe someone else will say, 'no, no, no, it was six seconds - not five'.

 

[`mud]

Time is the absence of `now` !

 

[Ponder This]

What is the frame of reference for seconds, hours, days, feet, meters, and yards? (the last two being out of order, by the way)

If you're declaring the observer unclear then you're declaring no measurement clear.

What?

There is more than one possible frame of reference. Classically, there is a coordinate system with a designated origin (a 'fixed point' in Space-Time).

The nature of the observer is a dilemma only because not everything is known about the observer. Somethings are known about the observer. Perhaps sufficient things are known about the observer to make measurements.

Units of measurement themselves are an interesting problem also. In modern times, our units of measurements tend to be defined in terms of their relation to what we believe are physical constants (such as the speed of light in vacuum).

Let's say you were living in the ancient world and you wanted to count out ten feet. You might use your feet because your feet are available for the task. Once you start to examine the nature of the observer, you start to realize that not everyone's foot is the same size. Now you make a standard foot for which an individual person's foot is an approximation.

As to whether or not measurements are clear, science acknowledges that no measurement is taken without error. Do you disagree?

 

[ChristineM]

the experiment isn't supernatural. no it didn't reverse time but it did reverse entropy.

Entropy is the only quantity in the physical sciences (apart from certain rare interactions in particle physics; see below) that requires a particular direction for time, sometimes called an arrow of time.

yes i understand that it reversed heat flow.

MIT wouldn't print anything that they would consider bogus

Physicists have demonstrated how to reverse of the arrow of time

Yes i already said that, actually the direction of heat treantra


Seems you did not read your own post
Quote
But a new experiment shows that, unlike heat dissipating from your coffee cup on a cold day, quantum particles can transfer heat energy away from cold particles and toward hotter ones, a reversal of the second law. If the second law can be reversed in that way, then it’s entirely possible that the arrow of time can be reversed, too.
Endquote

Or your link
Quote
The work raises the possibility of a new generation of devices in which the arrow of time runs backwards
Endquote

 

[Fool]

Yes i already said that, actually the direction of heat treantra


Seems you did not read your own post
Quote
But a new experiment shows that, unlike heat dissipating from your coffee cup on a cold day, quantum particles can transfer heat energy away from cold particles and toward hotter ones, a reversal of the second law. If the second law can be reversed in that way, then it’s entirely possible that the arrow of time can be reversed, too.
Endquote

Or your link
Quote
The work raises the possibility of a new generation of devices in which the arrow of time runs backwards
Endquote

i think you've missed something, "the possibility of a new generation of devices"

it doesn't say that time doesn't run backwards. the possibility that times runs backwards has already been proven using entropy.

the possibility of a new generation of devices is pending. proof that entropy is reversible has passed

 

[ChristineM]

i think you've missed something, "the possibility of a new generation of devices"

it doesn't say that time doesn't run backwards. the possibility that times runs backwards has already been proven using entropy.

the possibility of a new generation of devices is pending. proof that entropy is reversible has passed

What did you not understand about "The work raises the possibility of a new generation of devices in which the arrow of time runs backwards"?

 

[Fool]

What did you not understand about "The work raises the possibility of a new generation of devices in which the arrow of time runs backwards"?

a new generation of devices is now possible, because the arrow of time runs backwards.

 

[`mud]

hey ChristineM,
I don't think that `arrow` has been proven yet,
I think it's in the macro area and not a truth.
Maybe I'm wrong..I am getting rather old now !
I don't think the resonance holds throughout the sub-sets covered.

 

[ChristineM]

a new generation of devices is now possible, because the arrow of time runs backwards.

Nowhere is "because the arrow of time runs backwards" mentioned

 

[ChristineM]

hey ChristineM,
I don't think that `arrow` has been proven yet,
I think it's in the macro area and not a truth.
Maybe I'm wrong..I am getting rather old now !
I don't think the resonance holds throughout the sub-sets covered.

It is one of the fundimental laws of the universe, second law of thermodynamics.

There are theoretical paradoxes but generally speaking things dont get younger

 

[`mud]

hey ChristineM,
No real argument, tell it to Fool, time doesn't run backwards also.


Time does not really exist...all is movement...with no realistic reference.

 

[ChristineM]

hey ChristineM,
No real argument, tell it to Fool, time doesn't run backwards also.


Time does not really exist...all is movement...with no realistic reference.

Fool seems to be misinterpreting or is misrepresenting the experiment.

Time is man made in hours, minutes and seconds, thats subjective time. Without clocks it wouldn't exist

Its natural in that entropy increases. Always.

 

[paarsurrey]

Time is an Illusion

or relative. Thus the present always exists for every observer and the future/past is always in relation to some otherness?

Yes, I believe,time is an illusion in the sense that it has been created by G-d like space is a creation of G-d, but for Him these both have no reality/existence. The same way time and space are relative to the existence of G-d, else these both would have never existed, please.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

or relative. Thus the present always exists for every observer and the future/past is always in relation to some otherness?

Except the Immortal G-d neither present exists always nor any human observer, please.

Regards

 

[Thief]

'measurement' is 'the action of measuring something' or 'the size, length, or amount of something, as established by measuring' or 'a unit or system of measuring'.

If Time is a measurement, then what does it measure? Time isn't a measurement. Seconds are a measurement. What do seconds measure? Seconds measure Time.

What I ask, 'how much time'? Someone might respond, 'five seconds'. If you ask, 'what is a second', I might respond, 'the second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom' or I might say, 'it is 1/86400th of a day'. And maybe someone else will say, 'no, no, no, it was six seconds - not five'.

the clock ticks as you move
you are comparing the movement of the clock mechanism to what ever you do

and if you are doing nothing
the clock is still ticking....as the earth spins and orbits
and the measuring goes on

time is a quotient
a cognitive device invented by Man to serve Man

and if all the clocks were to fail (and they will)
movement will move on
just fine

 

[atanu]

or relative. Thus the present always exists for every observer and the future/past is always in relation to some otherness?

We exist in deep sleep sans a world and sans time. In dream, world and time come up. In waking again a different kind of world and time come up. The conscious self exists distinct to and through these three states. In my understanding, the space-time is a product of the conscious self, which however is different from the intellect based individual selves.

 

[Sir Doom]

I try to think of time as directionless. To me it is more like a field that reality is within. Everything within reality is what determines 'direction'. Time as a dimension only affects change. Consider the spacial dimensions do not tell us what the dimensions of any given object are, only that it has dimensions. Thus, what changes and how is determined by that which is changing (physics).

Our perception of time, now that's an illusion. The past is an imperfect construct of memory and the future is an imperfect projection the present is an imperfect combination of both that is fleeting at best.

Just another way our brain protects us from existential crisis.

 

[`mud]

Back to the OP;
Time is an illusion...
...or relative. Thus the present always exists for every observer and the future/past is always in relation to some otherness?

....I like that thought !

but....relative to what...what is that non-moving entity that is the `otherness`​