This thread is so gay

[Just_me_Mike]

I don't think he's doing that though. Not intentionally.

I understand the argument, and from an objective standpoint, I agree that society should probably start to phase this particular bit of slang out. If it offends gay people, then it makes sense to avoid it.

However, I want to underscore the fact that many people use it out of habit (you could say, "without thinking") and do NOT mean it as a slam against the gay community.

This is why I argue that we need not label these particular people as bigots. That's a strong term I reserve for those who truly hate and discriminate.

For the record, I hate "Soccer Mom," "Cougar," and "MILF". The first one is often said with a rather snide, I'm-better-than-you tone, and the second two reduce women to nothing more than a sex toy. I'd like to see all 3 terms disappear frankly. But I'm not going to assume the next guy who uses the term "cougar" is a sexist *******.

In my defense, I have been patient with Mball, and allowed him the chance to explain why he uses it. So far he has failed to explain how the concept of stupid has become synonymous with gay, and once established, if it at all is found to be slighting the gay community one should cease to use it.
Popular phrases don't mean much to me, it is just a sad state of human affairs we adopt things without thinking what they really mean.
I am not sure if Mball is a bigot outright, but the tendencies are there.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

The weather is Gay????? I have never heard such a thing, and what the hell does that even mean?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are several synonymous meanings I attach to the phrase "That's pretty gay" or That's so gay". It can mean, lame, stupid, dumb, shi**y, etc. None of those I associate with the gay community. Therefore there would be no need to assume offense, unless a member of that community is overly sensitive about it, and in that case it is their issue, not mine.

Exactly where do you think the expression came from?

We're not talking about a case like the word "niggardly", which is etymologically unrelated to another offensive word. In the phrase "that's so gay", there term does attempt to relate back to a root referring to homosexuality.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The weather is Gay????? I have never heard such a thing, and what the hell does that even mean?

It means that Njord likes Odin, maybe?

 

[RitalinO.D.]

incorrect

I wasn't saying you were, i was merely asking because of the way that first sentence was formed, it appeared that you were implying that, which is why i asked for clarification.

One must be truthful about how the concepts of lame, stupid, dumb became associated with the word gay. There are only a small number of options for that to have occurred. It certainly wasn't arbitrary.

But when has these words ever been associated with the gay community?

I'm failing to see how these words are or have become a commonplace description of the term gay.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

The weather is Gay????? I have never heard such a thing, and what the hell does that even mean?

It's called a slang expression. Used in place of say "This weather is so lame".
I find it surprising you have never heard that before.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But when has these words ever been associated with the gay community?

I'm failing to see how these words are or have become a commonplace description of the term gay.

How old are you, Ritalin?

I'm 34, and I'm old enough to remember the transition when "f____y" (can't say it directly because of our profanity rules, but the adjective form of the "f-word" slur against gay people) was used as a synonym for "lame" or "crappy", which then got replaced with "so gay" in popular speech. IMO, the link is clear.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Exactly where do you think the expression came from?

We're not talking about a case like the word "niggardly", which is etymologically unrelated to another offensive word. In the phrase "that's so gay", there term does attempt to relate back to a root referring to homosexuality.

Were still talking about context here. Not once have I ever used the phrase "That's so gay" to infer that the subject that the phrase was directed at, is somehow related to people attracted to the same sex.

As i stated before, if you are overly sensitive to the word, you're going to be offended no matter the context. Even when you know that the term can be used in a non-derogatory context to mean something completely different. My question is, why do you, or anyone else feel the need to instill that context on someone else?

Perhaps I have a biased view here, considering I have a different outlook at how what people say affects me. I don't get offended by words. As I stated before, I've been called cracker, and honkey by people that were most definitely using it in a hostile manner. It makes me laugh.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I wasn't saying you were, i was merely asking because of the way that first sentence was formed, it appeared that you were implying that, which is why i asked for clarification.




But when has these words ever been associated with the gay community?

I'm failing to see how these words are or have become a commonplace description of the term gay.

It's called a slang expression. Used in place of say "This weather is so lame".
I find it surprising you have never heard that before.

It might be hard to believe but there was a time that gay men were looked at as sick, diseased, weak, lame, pathetic. Which the community has make great strides forward to where we know it isn't a sickness it isn't lame or stupid, but at one time it was like that.
Does that answer your question about how those words became associated with the gay community. You can thank some priests, some pastors, some football coaches, and many many other ignorant men for that contribution.

 

[*Anne*]

I never looked at the term Cougar to describe a woman as a sex toy. I just looked at it as a term to describe a woman that preferred younger men. I don't see any sexist connotation to it.

There ya go. Excellent example. Though the word makes me flinch, I wouldn't assume anything bad about you because you used it. I get that it's slang.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

How old are you, Ritalin?

I'm 34, and I'm old enough to remember the transition when "f____y" (can't say it directly because of our profanity rules, but the adjective form of the "f-word" slur against gay people) was used as a synonym for "lame" or "crappy", which then got replaced with "so gay" in popular speech. IMO, the link is clear.

Well, I'll be 36 in 4 days, so I've been around long enough to know that some people do indeed use that phrase to mean exactly what you are inferring. However, in that same time frame, it has also become a slang term that is part of our language and to assume that everyone using it is homophobic and are out to offend every gay person is sort of silly. I'm a prime example. I am very for LGBT rights, including gays in the military/marriage, etc. I'm all for it. Using that phrase in no way makes me a bigot. Now, if I used it specifically to offend, then that is different. But I don't. And considering how many people support gay rights, I would imagine a majority of them don't either.

People will be offended by whatever you say. This is just one example of the plethora of terms, phrases or words that can and will be offensive. That's just how it is. Some are worse than others. Some have several meanings attached to them, and some of those meanings are not contextually offensive at all. Some are, as in the N-word. You cannot attach a different context to that word.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

There ya go. Excellent example. Though the word makes me flinch, I wouldn't assume anything bad about you because you used it. I get that it's slang.

But the n word use to be acceptable slang. It really did in many many circles of society. That just isn't a good enough defense to use certain phrases.
Poke poke

 

[Magic Man]

And does your use of the phrase (and with it, your tacit endorsement that the phrase is acceptable for use) make it more or less likely that someone will hear it elsewhere?

It shouldn't be either more or less likely.

BTW, I noticed that you skipped over part of my last post that addressed this point:

Yes, I did. I didn't think it was worth responding to.

Bingo! Now, step 2: does using the phrase "that's so gay" make the environment feel more or less accepting to gay people?

Neither.

Ah - so when you hurt him, it was his fault?

No. In this case, if he can't handle discussing this stuff, he shouldn't be here. It's the same reason I don't discuss a lot of this in real life. This is the place to discuss things like incest, religion, politics and other ideas that may expose you to opinions you wouldn't hear in normal conversation. But that's not the only reason I called him a drama queen.

You're splitting hairs. You hurt him with your argument that the phrase is acceptable, which is implied when you actually use it.

This goes back to what I just said above. It's quite a bit different me using the phrase in real life with someone who is offended by it. It's another thing to have a discussion about the use of the phrase on a site like this. This is supposed to be a place where people discuss topics that are generally taboo in everyday conversation.

It's a representative sample; the viewpoints there might be reflective of people you know. Or of people who your friends know, who you encourage to use the phrase by your own usage of it.

How do I encourage them to use it?

Are you sure? Can you see how someone would consider this sort of language to be unaccepting?

Sure. I can see how a lot of people see a lot of things in different ways.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Were still talking about context here. Not once have I ever used the phrase "That's so gay" to infer that the subject that the phrase was directed at, is somehow related to people attracted to the same sex.

So it's just a coincidence that the two words sound the same?

Actually, mball's example is the only one I've heard of where the expression makes sense: if the announcers in a hockey game are going on about Sidney Crosby to the point where it sounds like they have a man-crush on him, then that could be construed as kinda gay.

As i stated before, if you are overly sensitive to the word, you're going to be offended no matter the context. Even when you know that the term can be used in a non-derogatory context to mean something completely different. My question is, why do you, or anyone else feel the need to instill that context on someone else?

Because I care about the well-being of people, and because I think this is something that has the potential for real harm.

Like I said before, I don't think one use of the phrase "that's so gay" is going to drive someone to suicide all by itself, but I do think that it's an expression of a negative societal attitude to homosexuality that is a big part of why gay kids can have such a difficult time.

Perhaps I have a biased view here, considering I have a different outlook at how what people say affects me. I don't get offended by words. As I stated before, I've been called cracker, and honkey by people that were most definitely using it in a hostile manner. It makes me laugh.

Look at it this way: imagine yourself as a gay teenage kid trying to come to terms with his sexuality. You get no support (or maybe even outright animosity) from your family and church, maybe rejection by your lifelong friends, and as you're trying to figure out what it means to be gay in the midst of this isolation, you hear people nonchalantly equating "gay" with "inferior". How would you feel about yourself?

IMO, it amounts to society kicking a person when they're down.

If negatives just roll off you like water off a duck's back, great. However, I don't think it's reasonable to believe that all people are like that. Some people are in vulnerable situations, and this expression can do them real harm.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Ritolin I know many black people that use the N word in a positive manner these days. Example, they might say that ride is so N. Meaning it represents who they are in their own mind.
Their choice to say it, but I bet you'd never say that right?

It seems many are simply defending phrases based on only their perspective which may not be bad at times but seems to be wrong in this instance.

To each his own though...

 

[Magic Man]

In my defense, I have been patient with Mball, and allowed him the chance to explain why he uses it.

:spit: Come on, man. You don't really believe that, do you? Your first post came out with all guns blazing on the attack, and most of your subsequent posts haven't been any better.

I am not sure if Mball is a bigot outright, but the tendencies are there.

That is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard.

 

[*Anne*]

But the n word use to be acceptable slang. It really did in many many circles of society. That just isn't a good enough defense to use certain phrases.

Oh, I agree! Obviously, my view of "cougar" isn't anywhere near the category the N-word is in. My example is on a much, much smaller scale. Yet I used it because I think some people use "that's so gay" the same way they would use the term "cougar" or "MILF" ~ thinking it's not really a big deal and not meaning to offend anyone.

Poke poke

 

[RitalinO.D.]

So it's just a coincidence that the two words sound the same?

Actually, mball's example is the only one I've heard of where the expression makes sense: if the announcers in a hockey game are going on about Sidney Crosby to the point where it sounds like they have a man-crush on him, then that could be construed as kinda gay.


Because I care about the well-being of people, and because I think this is something that has the potential for real harm.

Like I said before, I don't think one use of the phrase "that's so gay" is going to drive someone to suicide all by itself, but I do think that it's an expression of a negative societal attitude to homosexuality that is a big part of why gay kids can have such a difficult time.


Look at it this way: imagine yourself as a gay teenage kid trying to come to terms with his sexuality. You get no support (or maybe even outright animosity) from your family and church, maybe rejection by your lifelong friends, and as you're trying to figure out what it means to be gay in the midst of this isolation, you hear people nonchalantly equating "gay" with "inferior". How would you feel about yourself?

IMO, it amounts to society kicking a person when they're down.

If negatives just roll off you like water off a duck's back, great. However, I don't think it's reasonable to believe that all people are like that. Some people are in vulnerable situations, and this expression can do them real harm.

I totally get what you are saying. I'm not trying to invalidate it. I just happen to look at things differently. No biggie. I was just giving my side as I see it.

 

[YmirGF]

In my view, using the word "gay" to describe something stupid is simply indicative of inherent homophobic bias. If that bias did not exist one would not be inclined to use the term in such a way. It would cease to have the imagined impact. It is the evolution of a term, for sure, but one that is soaked in heterosexual cultural bias. I find it especially troubling that a person like Mball, who is quite intolerance of intolerance of gays, would stoop to using the term. Apparently, by his own admission, he is not terribly concerned with the plight of gays.

Curiously, we also see many terms in use on RF that are quite unseemly. Terms like "Teabagger" and "bigot" are bandied about, at the drop of a hat. For example, I am the proud recipient of an infraction point for using the amusing and wholly justifiable concatenation of the words leftist and retard. Apparently those on the left are not the only ones with rather thin skins.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It shouldn't be either more or less likely.

So you don't think that usage perpetuates usage?

Yes, I did. I didn't think it was worth responding to.

And I think you're dodging the fact that what you do on this issue does hurt real people, despite your excuses.

Neither.

Wrong. It makes the person feel less accepted. We touched on this before: when a person feels hurt or offended, they don't feel accepted.

No. In this case, if he can't handle discussing this stuff, he shouldn't be here. It's the same reason I don't discuss a lot of this in real life. This is the place to discuss things like incest, religion, politics and other ideas that may expose you to opinions you wouldn't hear in normal conversation. But that's not the only reason I called him a drama queen.

Ah... so his offense wasn't because your position is genuinely offensive?

This goes back to what I just said above. It's quite a bit different me using the phrase in real life with someone who is offended by it.

Except that the sentiment that you explicitly expressed here is implicitly expressed when you use the phrase in real life, and that sentiment is what caused the offense.

How do I encourage them to use it?

By using it yourself.

Sure. I can see how a lot of people see a lot of things in different ways.

So... knowing that some people will find it unaccepting, you use it anyway. This is not "accepting" behaviour.