this makes me nervous

[pearl]

I think an EO is only valid during that particular presidency and can by the stroke of a pen be as easily dismissed by the next president. That was the first thing Trump did was to wipe out all of Obama's EO's as George W did with Clinton etc.

 

[Wu Wei]

I think an EO is only valid during that particular presidency and can by the stroke of a pen be as easily dismissed by the next president. That was the first thing Trump did was to wipe out all of Obama's EO's as George W did with Clinton etc.

But if that executive order could take out the 22nd amendment.....and what if the folks covered by the 15th and 19th Amendment were a threat to re-election.... Executive Order...those are gone too.

I do realize this is a worst case scenario and I suspect they will find that he cannot legally get rid of Amendments by Executive order...but if he can...from here on out and for Every President to follow...we are in trouble...and the Constitution would be just another old useless piece of paper

 

[Revoltingest]

I do my best to avoid political discussions like one would avoid the plague. I also suspect this thread will degrade into political arguing based on party affiliation and if you are or are not a Trump supporter.

I am not taking a political side here and as for Trump, that is not the issue that is making me nervous.

It is this that has me concerned. And it is not because it is Trump and it is not that Trump is going to try and do it nor what he is trying to do as it applies to immigrants and birthrights

Trump eyeing executive order to end birthright citizenship, a move most legal experts say runs afoul of the Constitution

Think about this for a second, with you politically shaded glasses off.

If a sitting president, regardless of party affiliation, can get rid of an amendment to the constitution with an executive order then which one of the Amendments is next on the chopping block simply because the President does not think it is right or his political party wants him to eliminate that amendment.....Guns become illegal, slavery is back, unreasonable search and seizure, right to a fair trial, excessive fines and cruelty ok...all by executive order. I realize they do not pay as much attention to the Constitution as they should in good ole Washington DC (on both sides of the political coin) but to be able to negate an amendment to the Constitution...all with an executive order from the President...that makes me nervous and could potentially take this country places we simply do not want to go.

Now to wait and see if it is actually legal for him to do it

A list of amendments of the Constitution just think with the stroke of a pen, from 1 man or woman....they could be gone... that I hope, is not possible

I don't worry about desires to do something doomed to fail.

 

[pearl]

But if that executive order could take out the 22nd amendment.....

Paul Ryan Dismisses Trump Plan To Void Birthright Citizenship Law By Executive Order

 

[Lyndon]

Paul Ryan is not running for re-election!!

 

[Shad]

It is this that has me concerned. And it is not because it is Trump and it is not that Trump is going to try and do it nor what he is trying to do as it applies to immigrants and birthrights

Trump eyeing executive order to end birthright citizenship, a move most legal experts say runs afoul of the Constitution

An EO can not repeal law nor SCOTUS ruling. The EO is challenging an interpretation of 14A via the executive branch which controls immigration. Ergo Trump is simply ordering immigration department to follow his interpretation (it is not really his but arguments used for over a century some which are completely legal). This of course will cause a legal battle which hopefully resolves the issue of illegal immigrant anchor babies.

If a sitting president, regardless of party affiliation, can get rid of an amendment to the constitution with an executive order then which one of the Amendments is next on the chopping block simply because the President does not think it is right or his political party wants him to eliminate that amendment.....Guns become illegal, slavery is back, unreasonable search and seizure, right to a fair trial, excessive fines and cruelty ok...all by executive order. I realize they do not pay as much attention to the Constitution as they should in good ole Washington DC (on both sides of the political coin) but to be able to negate an amendment to the Constitution...all with an executive order from the President...that makes me nervous and could potentially take this country places we simply do not want to go.

This is all spin based on a misinterpretation of 14A and ignorance of existing precedents. He can not change 14A. He is using an interpretation which has existed for centuries and one that has withstood legal challenges. Hysteria has run away with your mind.

Now to wait and see if it is actually legal for him to do it

There will be a legal battle no doubt.

A list of amendments of the Constitution

just think with the stroke of a pen, from 1 man or woman....they could be gone... that I hope, is not possible

More spin based on your hysteria and lack of knowledge. Birth right was never a thing until the 60s as it is treated now. Prior Native Americans were not citizens due to being a member of a tribe. It took an act of Congress to make them citizens which was passed in 24 I think.

 

[Audie]

Worries me, too. But I don't think this will actually happen.

Noooo. It cant happen here.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I do my best to avoid political discussions like one would avoid the plague. I also suspect this thread will degrade into political arguing based on party affiliation and if you are or are not a Trump supporter.

I am not taking a political side here and as for Trump, that is not the issue that is making me nervous.

It is this that has me concerned. And it is not because it is Trump and it is not that Trump is going to try and do it nor what he is trying to do as it applies to immigrants and birthrights

Trump eyeing executive order to end birthright citizenship, a move most legal experts say runs afoul of the Constitution

Think about this for a second, with you politically shaded glasses off.

If a sitting president, regardless of party affiliation, can get rid of an amendment to the constitution with an executive order then which one of the Amendments is next on the chopping block simply because the President does not think it is right or his political party wants him to eliminate that amendment.....Guns become illegal, slavery is back, unreasonable search and seizure, right to a fair trial, excessive fines and cruelty ok...all by executive order. I realize they do not pay as much attention to the Constitution as they should in good ole Washington DC (on both sides of the political coin) but to be able to negate an amendment to the Constitution...all with an executive order from the President...that makes me nervous and could potentially take this country places we simply do not want to go.

Now to wait and see if it is actually legal for him to do it

A list of amendments of the Constitution just think with the stroke of a pen, from 1 man or woman....they could be gone... that I hope, is not possible

Come on , it's fun getting the plague. It's what makes RF an exciting place like the old west where you had those Saloon brawls where the guy gets thrown out the window! *Grin*

Anyways just to be Civvilliessezd, I actually agree with you. I'll be against any executive order that could do that.

I don't think Trump could do that anyways, unless something was passed that would give him that authority. I would sure like to know the name of the person that would ever grant something like that without going to the public and Congress.

The thing is I really don't think he could do that anyways. It's clearly illegal and as far as I know the spread of executive orders do not have that kind of scope for such a change like that.

Anchor babies are definitely a problem but a solution certainly wouldn't be circumventing or altering the Constitution in respect to people born here. There's plenty of ways to getting around it , I'm sure by the simple act of telling the parents to go back to their country and make a decision themselves whether they want to leave their baby here, or take their child back with them would be deterrent enough for any repeated attempts to breed anchor babies on US soil.

I do think every person who arrives should be allowed to apply with the understanding that an answer may be no.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I do my best to avoid political discussions like one would avoid the plague. I also suspect this thread will degrade into political arguing based on party affiliation and if you are or are not a Trump supporter.

I am not taking a political side here and as for Trump, that is not the issue that is making me nervous.

It is this that has me concerned. And it is not because it is Trump and it is not that Trump is going to try and do it nor what he is trying to do as it applies to immigrants and birthrights

Trump eyeing executive order to end birthright citizenship, a move most legal experts say runs afoul of the Constitution

Think about this for a second, with you politically shaded glasses off.

If a sitting president, regardless of party affiliation, can get rid of an amendment to the constitution with an executive order then which one of the Amendments is next on the chopping block simply because the President does not think it is right or his political party wants him to eliminate that amendment.....Guns become illegal, slavery is back, unreasonable search and seizure, right to a fair trial, excessive fines and cruelty ok...all by executive order. I realize they do not pay as much attention to the Constitution as they should in good ole Washington DC (on both sides of the political coin) but to be able to negate an amendment to the Constitution...all with an executive order from the President...that makes me nervous and could potentially take this country places we simply do not want to go.

Now to wait and see if it is actually legal for him to do it

A list of amendments of the Constitution just think with the stroke of a pen, from 1 man or woman....they could be gone... that I hope, is not possible

I find it very difficult to see how this could happen. The President is sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, and that Constitution has embedded in it the means whereby it can be amended...and that process definitely does not include "by executive order."

Pretty sad, really, that the defender of the Constitution doesn't even understand the thing, not nearly as well as a foreigner like me! Hail to the Liar in Chief.

 

[Quetzal]

Anchor babies are definitely a problem but a solution certainly wouldn't be circumventing or altering the Constitution in respect to people born here.

Exactly.

 

[Curious George]

He is using an interpretation which has existed for centuries and one that has withstood legal challenges.

What exactly do you think the legal argument is, and what legal challenges do you think it has withstood? Are you referring to the dissent in United States v. Wong Kim Ark?

 

[Shad]

What exactly do you think the legal argument is, and what legal challenges do you think it has withstood?

He is dismissing an interpretation of the 14A which has not be ruled by Congress nor SCOTUS practiced by the executive branch since the 60s. The legal battle will be over if said dismissed interpretation is law. It isn't at this time. That is the legal battle will be about. If birth right includes anyone or specific people as per previous law and precedent.

Are you referring to the dissent in United States v. Wong Kim Ark?

Nope. Wong helps my point as the criteria of it was the parents were legal residents whereas illegals are not. You didn't read the case did you? You never notice the exclusions which were considered but not deemed applicable? Ergo birth right never existed as it is being treated now.

 

[Twilight Hue]

But if that executive order could take out the 22nd amendment.....and what if the folks covered by the 15th and 19th Amendment were a threat to re-election.... Executive Order...those are gone too.

I do realize this is a worst case scenario and I suspect they will find that he cannot legally get rid of Amendments by Executive order...but if he can...from here on out and for Every President to follow...we are in trouble...and the Constitution would be just another old useless piece of paper

Well for any change to the Constitution there would need to be a constitutional convention. That would be huge news should it ever come to the table.

 

[Wu Wei]

An EO can not repeal law nor SCOTUS ruling. The EO is challenging an interpretation of 14A via the executive branch which controls immigration. Ergo Trump is simply ordering immigration department to follow his interpretation (it is not really his but arguments used for over a century some which are completely legal). This of course will cause a legal battle which hopefully resolves the issue of illegal immigrant anchor babies.




This is all spin based on a misinterpretation of 14A and ignorance of existing precedents. He can not change 14A. He is using an interpretation which has existed for centuries and one that has withstood legal challenges. Hysteria has run away with your mind.



There will be a legal battle no doubt.


More spin based on your hysteria and lack of knowledge. Birth right was never a thing until the 60s as it is treated now. Prior Native Americans were not citizens due to being a member of a tribe. It took an act of Congress to make them citizens which was passed in 24 I think.

I'm actually not hysterical at all

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm actually not hysterical at all

But you do look agitated, Choppy.

 

[Shad]

I'm actually not hysterical at all

I do not mean freaking out hysterical but letting your emotions run wild thus the spin created regarding the EO. The very idea an EO can override 14A itself is nonsense and not the intention of the EO. That is the spin you created or swallowed from the article The EO covers an interpretation being used as policy under the executive branch which controls immigration and citizenship.

Simply put it is bait to force a legally battle at little cost to the administration while providing optics for mid-terms. Congress already has a proposed bill regarding anchor babies from the GOP.

 

[Wu Wei]

I do not mean freaking out hysterical but letting your emotions run wild thus the spin created regarding the EO. The very idea an EO can override 14A itself is nonsense and not the intention of the EO. That is the spin you created or swallowed from the article The EO covers an interpretation being used as policy under the executive branch which control immigration.

Not all that emotional either....mostly concerned...but still ultimately doubting the it could be done with an EO, but not 100% positive...the rest was hypothetical speculation, if it were possible...... not loosing sleep over it.

 

[Wu Wei]

But you do look agitated, Choppy.

I always look agitated

 

[Shad]

Not all that emotional either....mostly concerned...but still ultimately doubting the it could be done with an EO, but not 100% positive...the rest was hypothetical speculation, if it were possible...... not loosing sleep over it.

You are still talking about the spin and not what the EO actually is. It is not overriding the 14A it is overriding previous policy which an EO can do. Birth right has never been settled by Congress nor SCOTUS.

 

[Lyndon]

What part of "Born in the USA" do you not understand????