This is why I do not trust the police

[Earthling]

Hardly. You are merely projecting again. I am far from smug. I am willing to help the ignorant. You may have a well earned inferiority complex and this is a way of striking back at others for you. And you have a terrible understanding of the Bible. You make several basic errors in your approach to it that limits your ability to understand it. By the way, any sense of superiority that I have over you is only confirmed by your posts.

I don't think you fully appreciate my perspective on our relationship. Imagine this forum is a racetrack. Someone like @Deeje, to me, is a finely tuned machine, equipped to run the race, but her power source is external, and unresponsive. So she sits and waits. Someone like me is likewise, finely tuned and equipped to run the race, but I'm all beat to hell. My imperfections are transparent, but that isn't going to harm me in the race. You, are a polished machine. Very appealing to the eyes, but you're an empty shell. A model on the showroom floor. You can't even enter the race. You're not real.

And you have no idea how atheists work. Atheists know that they can't say I am sorry to an imaginary friend and everything will be okay. If I do something wrong it is up to me to make it right. Unlike too many Christians we do have a proper sense of right and wrong and how to try to make things better. No atheist is perfect, but hopefully we try to clean up our own messes.

You have no accountability. You intellectually shun it. It's repulsive to you because nothing is real. You're a dog and pony show.

Really? I would like to hear it.

A separation from, or a denial, if you will, of your masquerade. If I smile and play nice with you I enter the facade. I then have to maintain the pretense and give it merit of some kind.

Now see, this is the sort of attitude that will trap you in ignorance.

Interesting. Ignorance of what? General ignorance this time, or an adversarial position to your aforementioned facade? You see, nothing I say matters to you. You are artificial intelligence. You secrete tiny particles unseen by the naked eye; the stink of some semblance of knowledge which is really only, in a metaphoric sense, a fractured mirror reflecting the broken scenery of the quasi intellectualism of a bourgeois academia.

There is no substance. Only a vague and repetitious cry against the ever illusive ignorance that is nothing more than rebelling against your vapid and insipid ability to pontificate.

This is not a Christian attitude. Amazingly enough almost every atheist here follows the teachings of Jesus better than you do.

What are your qualifications to propose this?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't think you fully appreciate my perspective on our relationship. Imagine this forum is a racetrack. Someone like @Deeje, to me, is a finely tuned machine, equipped to run the race, but her power source is external, and unresponsive. So she sits and waits. Someone like me is likewise, finely tuned and equipped to run the race, but I'm all beat to hell. My imperfections are transparent, but that isn't going to harm me in the race. You, are a polished machine. Very appealing to the eyes, but you're an empty shell. A model on the showroom floor. You can't even enter the race. You're not real.

Projection again. Just because you have no ability to debate with me does not make me unreal. If you were not so afraid I could help you to learn why we know the stories of Genesis are mostly myths. I am sorry that your body does not work, but there is no reason that you cannot use your mind.

You have no accountability. You intellectually shun it. It's repulsive to you because nothing is real. You're a dog and pony show.

You could not be more wrong. It is Christians like you that avoid accountability. Realizing there is no invisible friend forces one to become so. It is rather amazing that you will not let yourself understand this. You should be able.to. Cognitive dissonance strikes again.

A separation from, or a denial, if you will, of your masquerade. If I smile and play nice with you I enter the facade. I then have to maintain the pretense and give it merit of some kind.

no facade. Why do you pay your own holy book no mind at all?

Interesting. Ignorance of what? General ignorance this time, or an adversarial position to your aforementioned facade? You see, nothing I say matters to you. You are artificial intelligence. You secrete tiny particles unseen by the naked eye; the stink of some semblance of knowledge which is really only, in a metaphoric sense, a fractured mirror reflecting the broken scenery of the quasi intellectualism of a bourgeois academia.

Your general ignorance of science, logic and morals would be a good starting point.

There is no substance. Only a vague and repetitious cry against the ever illusive ignorance that is nothing more than rebelling against you vapid and insipid ability to pontificate.

There is plenty of substance. Unfortunately you run away long before we can get to any. Do you think you can lay your fears to rest for at least a few posts?

What are your qualifications to propose this?

I can reason properly. I can support my claims with proper sources when needed. I have not seen you do that in your posts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You probably know some cops, you might want to ask a follow up question on the one that pulled you over. See if you can politely ask if they had a little talking to him. Cops, like everyone else, do not like to look foolish and the one that gave you a hard time made the rest of his comrades look bad.

In my experience, they don't care about looking good.
The history of the David Bisard case
Former Peru cop files $700,000 claim against city

 

[rocala]

Well, then, you're an idiot.

Maybe? However, I only go in for name calling when in face to face situations.

 

[Earthling]

Maybe? However, I only go in for name calling when in face to face situations.

Is that so. And racist isn't name calling?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I can see no good reason for physically detaining a person who is cooperating...it sounds to me like the police are operating under some sort of pressure to treat people as guilty before accepting them as innocent. I can accept that they ask for your information and run a background check but to make you do anything else seems to be outside of any reasonable procedure.

Right that’s my point. He could have had me stand outside to call the detective.

 

[Earthling]

Right that’s my point. He could have had me stand outside to call the detective.

If there was no probable cause for you to have been detaineded then it was illegal for the officer to have done so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If there was no probable cause for you to have been detaineded then it was illegal for the officer to have done so.

Probably cause for detainment is extremely broad. There are various degrees of it. Almost everyone who drives has been detained at one point or another. If you got pulled over for a traffic ticket you were being detained whether you realized it or not. You were not free to leave until he was done writing the ticket. Probably cause for detainment is a very low hurdle. The policeman will not be in trouble over that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Probably cause for detainment is extremely broad. There are various degrees of it. Almost everyone who drives has been detained at one point or another. If you got pulled over for a traffic ticket you were being detained whether you realized it or not. You were not free to leave until he was done writing the ticket. Probably cause for detainment is a very low hurdle. The policeman will not be in trouble over that.

That's true. Unlawful detainment would go past a period of time where a charge must be layed or you must be released.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

If there was no probable cause for you to have been detaineded then it was illegal for the officer to have done so.

Right. They were saying the detective to identify me. I mean identify me for what, an accident scene? It made no sense.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

While I somewhat support the point the OP is trying to make, isn't the generic assertion of not trusting (any) police exactly the same kind of profiling that is implied in police officers not trusting any black people?

No. Because one is on racial lines and the other is about professionalism and a history of corruption. For the former, I'm 6'0 230lb African-American with tattoos. One, I'm black, and two my size (I'm athletically built so to some officers I look intimidating). The latter, is in regards to the history of corruption, not just by Lo Angeles County Sherriffs, but also Los Angeles Police Departments. It is different to discern impartiality in law enforcement officers and one who conducts their job through a biased lens.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

@Subduction Zone Are you/were you a cop, or you just love cops?

 

[Subduction Zone]

@Subduction Zone Are you/were you a cop, or you just love cops?

I am not a cop but I have had police friends. I can see why you are angry, you ran into an incompetent cop. Power in the hands of the incompetent is always trouble. Hopefully he learned from his mistakes. If you are in a "bad neighborhood" you should realize that the police are often between a rock and a hard place. They have to enforce the laws, or the victims will scream bloody murder, but in doing so they often offend the populace. Sometimes innocent people are improperly detained, as you were.

I would suggest trying to find a solution instead of striking out blindly. If the police got to know people in your neighborhood do you think that they would treat them the same? Some would. My housemate had problems in her life and she passed that on to her kids. Two out of three are messed up permanently it seems and one got himself out of that life. The one that went straight has a girlfriend that always was straight and she was considering being a police officer. The daughter, who is still an addict, almost had a cow at that thought. She too has an irrational hatred of the police, she sees them as a threat to her addiction. People like that will never like the cops. If you got police to meet and greet people in your community, on an ongoing basis, one time only would just be for show. You will probably see improvement from both sides. Just spitballing, but it is better to find a solution than to bang your head against the wall.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I am not a cop but I have had police friends. I can see why you are angry, you ran into an incompetent cop.

I'm mad because I worked a 12 hour shift and I was tired. I'm doubly mad because I was in my hospital uniform which would indicate that I'm not doing any criminal activity and considering these officers go to my hospital to investigate trauma victims all the time I would of assumed the cop would cut me some slack. I'm also mad that I have to get stopped and asked if I'm on probation or parole just because I look at a cop. I think what irks me about cop lovers is the refusal to concede there being a racial component behind police work, not to mention a miscarriage of justice because cops who are "dirty" have some sort of immunity within the judicial system.

Power in the hands of the incompetent is always trouble.

It is not always the incompetent, but the competent as well.

Hopefully he learned from his mistakes.

Cops like that never learn. They move on. You're being too naive at this point. This is Los Angeles home to a corrupt police force with draconian tactics. You must not have really gotten the part where I was searched and detained in my work attire. Do you not understand how embrassing that is to be in that position in front of neighbors? Because of this experience this means in the next car wreck I'm more than likely NOT to assist because of this situation.

I would suggest trying to find a solution instead of striking out blindly.

This right here is the problem that I have. There is in excess amount of experiences where law enforcement went overboard but I'm supposed to allocate this to one individual? In the inner city schools we are taught to address law enforcement whose teachings resemble how a surf address their overlord. It further angers me that cop lovers try to tell me what to do as if I can change legislation. What your suggestion does is indirectly make me in the wrong by proclaiming that I'm doing things out of spite. I'm thirty Mother*********** six years old. I'm a professional. I've been racially profiled in an excess of over 20 years odf my life. Been at gun point. Some of my relatives who are former gang members now used to get picked up by cops and dropped off in rival gang neighborhoods. Where is the justice in that?

Instead of telling me what to do perhaps it would behoove you to simply read my account and accept it for what it is instead of telling me what to do because it it does it makes you look disingenuous. I mean hell, for example, do you tell a woman who has been raped maybe she shouldn't wear low cut skirts?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm mad because I worked a 12 hour shift and I was tired. I'm doubly mad because I was in my hospital uniform which would indicate that I'm not doing any criminal activity and considering these officers go to my hospital to investigate trauma victims all the time I would of assumed the cop would cut me some slack. I'm also mad that I have to get stopped and asked if I'm on probation or parole just because I look at a cop. I think what irks me about cop lovers is the refusal to concede there being a racial component behind police work, not to mention a miscarriage of justice because cops who are "dirty" have some sort of immunity within the judicial system.

Yes, there is no doubt that the cop that dealt with you screwed up. The guy was not too bright since I have never seen a "thug" wearing scrubs., I doubt if he had either. But you go to far when you try to paint all police this way or to claim there is a miscarriage of justice. You will be able to find some examples, but miscarriages of justice can be found both ways. But, yes, there is no doubt that there was a racial component involved in his stopping you.

It is not always the incompetent, but the competent as well.

That you would need to demonstrate.

Cops like that never learn. They move on. You're being too naive at this point. This is Los Angeles home to a corrupt police force with draconian tactics. You must not have really gotten the part where I was searched and detained in my work attire. Do you not understand how embrassing that is to be in that position in front of neighbors? Because of this experience this means in the next car wreck I'm more than likely NOT to assist because of this situation.

Then complain to a higher source. And yes, I understand how you were searched by a cop that should have known better if he could add 2 + 2 and get 4. Have you not been paying attention? I feel for you, but the past is the past. It would be better to work for a solution. Complaining on an internet forum accomplishes nothing.

This right here is the problem that I have. There is in excess amount of experiences where law enforcement went overboard but I'm supposed to allocate this to one individual? In the inner city schools we are taught to address law enforcement whose teachings resemble how a surf address their overlord. It further angers me that cop lovers try to tell me what to do as if I can change legislation. What your suggestion does is indirectly make me in the wrong by proclaiming that I'm doing things out of spite. I'm thirty Mother*********** six years old. I'm a professional. I've been racially profiled in an excess of over 20 years odf my life. Been at gun point. Some of my relatives who are former gang members now used to get picked up by cops and dropped off in rival gang neighborhoods. Where is the justice in that?

I am not sure that "an excess" is the right phrase to use. And once again I am not saying "forgive and forget". I am advocating that you work to be part of the solution. And with your attitude towards the police, who are working for you, you only make the situation worse. The cops are not overlords and you are not serfs (note spelling). And though what the police may have done to gang members is of course abhorrent, it is hard to feel to much compassion for gang members. That problem is largely of their own making. Again, if you want justice try to be part of the solution rather than identifying with the problem.

Instead of telling me what to do perhaps it would behoove you to simply read my account and accept it for what it is instead of telling me what to do because it it does it makes you look disingenuous. I mean hell, for example, do you tell a woman who has been raped maybe she shouldn't wear low cut skirts?

What good would just reading your account and saying "poor baby" do? I am far from disingenuous, I am trying to offer solutions. They may not be the right ones, but they are more than you have done to this point.

 

[Augustus]

And yet the vast majority of supposed abuses are not when investigated .

Often because they go all in to cover their own backs. Can't imagine more than a low single digit percentage of actual abuses ever get confirmed, and most of these are when the evidence is so overwhelming they can't get away with a cover up.

I was assaulted by 3 police officers including being punched in the face and having multiple kicks aimed at the leg I was limping heavily on. The latter was for walking away from them too slowly due to the fact I was limping heavily. Instead of just walking past me, they kicked at me every few seconds for about 300 meters.

Strangely enough they all lied about it when I reported them and made up a complete fantasy story and got others to confirm their entirely fictitious account of what happened.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

But you go to far when you try to paint all police this way or to claim there is a miscarriage of justice.

I've realized discussing this issue to a cop lover is like discussing the irrationality of racism to a klansman. It is not a complaint, its merely sharing an experience, something many of us do on the internet. But okay now that I've wasted a little over an hour with this dialogue I'll concede I wasted my time.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Often because they go all in to cover their own backs. Can't imagine more than a low single digit percentage of actual abuses ever get confirmed, and most of these are when the evidence is so overwhelming they can't get away with a cover up.

I was assaulted by 3 police officers including being punched in the face and having multiple kicks aimed at the leg I was limping heavily on. The latter was for walking away from them too slowly due to the fact I was limping heavily. Instead of just walking past me, they kicked at me every few seconds for about 300 meters.

Strangely enough they all lied about it when I reported them and made up a complete fantasy story and got others to confirm their entirely fictitious account of what happened.

I'm trying to get into this guy's head on the issue of why I don't trust cops. It's not a matter of simply my experiences but the stuff I read and have seen experienced by others.


ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY

If I was a p**** in high school and was bullied with no repricussion given a badge to do anything without impunity is a dangerous foe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've realized discussing this issue to a cop lover is like discussing the irrationality of racism to a klansman. It is not a complaint, its merely sharing an experience, something many of us do on the internet. But okay now that I've wasted a little over an hour with this dialogue I'll concede I wasted my time.

Just because I can see that the police are right far more often than they are wrong does not make me "cop lover". Your inability to see your monumental flaws only means that you are likely to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution. That is rather sad since this incident did give you some authority to help to cure the behavior of some policemen.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm trying to get into this guy's head on the issue of why I don't trust cops. It's not a matter of simply my experiences but the stuff I read and have seen experienced by others.


ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY

If I was a p**** in high school and was bullied with no repricussion given a badge to do anything without impunity is a dangerous foe.

I understand why, you simply refuse to approach this as an adult. And yes, you have read the claims of other people, many of whose claims could easily be false, and yet you still have nothing.

I will stand by my claim that when actually investigated the police usually do not come out as being in the wrong. Are you an advocate of body cams? I am. The protect both the police and the accused. LA is a fairly modern city. Don't the cops there have body cams?