Thinking about moving beyond Satanism.

[Saint Frankenstein]

So I'm thinking about doing something else now. I guess it just doesn't speak to me that much in the long term. I've tried LaVeyan Satanism and Theistic Satanism. The concept of the Adversary makes great sense to me but ultimately I view it as too tied to the Abrahamic religions. I used to be Catholic and I ended up rejecting that. So I went to Satanism because, at its root, it's a rebellion against the culture at large. But it still makes me think about Christianity because when I talk to other Satanists, much of what they talk about is blaspheming Christianity. I can understand the need for blasphemy but it gets old after awhile. Also, another big problem for me is the lack of historical sources. There's really not much grounding outside of medieval rumors and bits and pieces of occultism (which I am also somewhat bored with). Also, Theistic Satanists tend to have to tie their idea of Satan to pre-Christian deities in order to make it "work". A lot of us tend to end up looking to Prometheus, Set, Enki, Tiamat and other figures to ground our beliefs in. Otherwise, they tend to honor a reinterpreted form of the Christian or Islamic Satan. One criticism of that is why bother with Satanism when you feel drawn to pre-Christian deities in the first place?

So it seems that there is really not much to go on after awhile. There's other issues, too. Satanism seems to draw in a lot of people who are rather broken and some that are more shallow. There's a lot of in-fighting and people just can't agree with each other. In the beginning, it was empowering to liberate myself from dogma and other people's opinions. So Satanism does have its uses, such as freeing the psyche and focusing on your own growth.

Anyway, so I think I'm starting to move away from that. At this point in time, I'm very interested in Germanic Paganism. There's many things I admire about it. I love how the Gods are viewed more like family rather than ultimate authorities that you must humble yourself towards. I admire the emphasis on courage, honor and pride. I also love the shamanistic and animistic aspects of it. The reverence for Nature and the land is very inspiring. I love how the cosomology is illustrated through Yggdrasil.

One draw back, though, is that I'm not too familiar with the lore. Also, the language barrier makes things hard, as well. I also have a liking for Hellenic Paganism. I'm much more familiar with the stories and the language is easier to comprehend and pronounce. But the Greek deities seem to be less approachable. There also seems to be missing a shamanistic aspect. They don't have things like the Runes. It's also not tied to the beautiful Northern European landscape, as with Norse religion.

So, at this point, I'm really interested in Asatru. I'm trying to learn more about it. I also need to read the Eddas. That's what I'm drawn to now, but I have a habit of jumping into things, declaring my beliefs as such and then getting "bored" with it. I'm a pretty restless person and change my views often. But for now, this where my interests lie.

Advice? Opinions?

 

[crossfire]

I think we have at least one member here who is into Asatru.

Good luck in your continuing search!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think we have at least one member here who is into Asatru.

Yes, there are multiple Asatruars here.

Good luck in your continuing search!

Thank you.

 

[Treks]

There's a lot of in-fighting and people just can't agree with each other.

Said everyone regarding just about every religion.

Best wishes on your journey.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Said everyone regarding just about every religion.

Very true. But this is more pronounced in Satanism, since Satanism itself is a nebulous concept and so you kinda "make it up" as you go along. Not a good thing or a bad thing, necessarily. That's just how it is.

Best wishes on your journey.

Thanks.

 

[mimpibird39]

Norse mythology is awesome. Have fun with it! You can always practice both Germanic Paganism and Hellenic Paganism. Plenty of people worship gods from two or more pantheons. I actually have a dual Roman-Egyptian (maybe even Roman-Grecco-Egyptian) path myself. If you like runes, a lot of Celtic pagans and Druids use ogham sticks for divination. There's also Celtic Shamanism and Druidism.

Just to warn you, you'll probably find some pagans fighting among each other too (especially on tumblr ).

 

[Windwalker]

So I'm thinking about doing something else now. I guess it just doesn't speak to me that much in the long term. I've tried LaVeyan Satanism and Theistic Satanism. The concept of the Adversary makes great sense to me but ultimately I view it as too tied to the Abrahamic religions. I used to be Catholic and I ended up rejecting that. So I went to Satanism because, at its root, it's a rebellion against the culture at large. But it still makes me think about Christianity because when I talk to other Satanists, much of what they talk about is blaspheming Christianity. I can understand the need for blasphemy but it gets old after awhile. Also, another big problem for me is the lack of historical sources. There's really not much grounding outside of medieval rumors and bits and pieces of occultism (which I am also somewhat bored with). Also, Theistic Satanists tend to have to tie their idea of Satan to pre-Christian deities in order to make it "work". A lot of us tend to end up looking to Prometheus, Set, Enki, Tiamat and other figures to ground our beliefs in. Otherwise, they tend to honor a reinterpreted form of the Christian or Islamic Satan. One criticism of that is why bother with Satanism when you feel drawn to pre-Christian deities in the first place?

So it seems that there is really not much to go on after awhile. There's other issues, too. Satanism seems to draw in a lot of people who are rather broken and some that are more shallow. There's a lot of in-fighting and people just can't agree with each other. In the beginning, it was empowering to liberate myself from dogma and other people's opinions. So Satanism does have its uses, such as freeing the psyche and focusing on your own growth.

I enjoyed reading your description above. As just an observer that's how it has impressed me all along, and I've remarked that its just basically Christianity turned upside down, and it is rooted in trying to empower oneself against the dogmatic imposition of Christian symbolism. I have a term I've used to describe something I've observed those who are breaking themselves away from this kind of Christianity which I call therapeutic blasphemy. It's benefit is to separate and liberate oneself from the tyranny aspects of religious abuse, a mythic God damning all the hell for any little sin, and whatnot. It says 'hell no', to that, and empowers the individual.

But to make a religion out of that? No. It's still tied to its parent system, and is really just a transition. It stays stuck in its "anti" position, like those who identify as atheist in the sense of "no-God". It's still focused on God, in its mythic forms. Self-identifying in the negative, is not finding a new path. It's being stuck in transition, like identifying yourself as divorced all the time, rather than single.

Anyway, so I think I'm starting to move away from that. At this point in time, I'm very interested in Germanic Paganism. There's many things I admire about it. I love how the Gods are viewed more like family rather than ultimate authorities that you must humble yourself towards. I admire the emphasis on courage, honor and pride. I also love the shamanistic and animistic aspects of it. The reverence for Nature and the land is very inspiring. I love how the cosomology is illustrated through Yggdrasil.

May I make a suggestion? I think it's great to find symbols that resonate to positive spiritual goals, but you may wish to be eclectic about it, rather than necessarily immersing and embedding yourself into just one tradition. The real goal is your inner work, and the forms are simply tools and aides to help you realize that in yourself. Not growing up within a particular culture leaves you never really being able to get the full significance of the symbols. You can learn the language of another culture, but unless you become a part of that culture and your entire mind is rewired to think like them, the full and rich meanings of the language is lost in translation. That's not to discourage trying, but just something to be aware of.

Happy journey forward!

 

[Quintessence]

Some questions for self-reflection (that would help me help you as much as help you help yourself, potentially):

Why do you feel the concept of Adversary is tied to Abrahamic religions? Is it because these religions tend to be dualistic or is it something else? How do you feel about concepts like the "shadow self?"

You asked the question "why bother with Satanism when you feel drawn to pre-Christian deities." Think for a bit about your own question. I've got some ideas on that of my own, but I'll save them for the moment.

What is "shamanism" to you? What is "animism" to you? What are the "Runes" to you? What about the Greek deities feels unapproachable?

Do you think you want to attempt a historically authentic reconstructionist path or are you not interested in that kind of thing?

Another thing you'll want to really drill yourself hard on is why you have such an aversion to something connected to the Abrahamic faiths. I mention this because I tend to find such an aversion unhealthy. It speaks of baggage that needs to be left behind and resolved so you can see the beauty and benefits these religions have to offer. It shouldn't be something that holds you back or restricts you; it should be reconciled to the point you can draw on it as part of your past in a respectful fashion if you want to. If you had a genuinely abusive experience in the past I understand, but otherwise, I'd suggest trying to reconcile it in a more positive fashion that doesn't leave you not wanting to touch it with a twenty foot pole.

Lastly, as others have noted, if you're expecting to escape from infighting in the Neopagan community, you'll be disappointed. If you're expecting to not run into people who turn to the religion because they're "broken" you'll also be disappointed. Though honestly, I would say if you're expecting to escape from these things when interacting with any group of human beings regardless of who they are, you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I enjoyed reading your description above. As just an observer that's how it has impressed me all along, and I've remarked that its just basically Christianity turned upside down, and it is rooted in trying to empower oneself against the dogmatic imposition of Christian symbolism. I have a term I've used to describe something I've observed those who are breaking themselves away from this kind of Christianity which I call therapeutic blasphemy. It's benefit is to separate and liberate oneself from the tyranny aspects of religious abuse, a mythic God damning all the hell for any little sin, and whatnot. It says 'hell no', to that, and empowers the individual.

But to make a religion out of that? No. It's still tied to its parent system, and is really just a transition. It stays stuck in its "anti" position, like those who identify as atheist in the sense of "no-God". It's still focused on God, in its mythic forms. Self-identifying in the negative, is not finding a new path. It's being stuck in transition, like identifying yourself as divorced all the time, rather than single.

Thank you! That's what I was trying to say, but you put it much better than I did.

I'm not trying to insult Satanism or the Left Hand Path. I respect it, but that's just my feelings on it.

May I make a suggestion? I think it's great to find symbols that resonate to positive spiritual goals, but you may wish to be eclectic about it, rather than necessarily immersing and embedding yourself into just one tradition. The real goal is your inner work, and the forms are simply tools and aides to help you realize that in yourself. Not growing up within a particular culture leaves you never really being able to get the full significance of the symbols. You can learn the language of another culture, but unless you become a part of that culture and your entire mind is rewired to think like them, the full and rich meanings of the language is lost in translation. That's not to discourage trying, but just something to be aware of.

Happy journey forward!

That's a good point, too. I don't know where I'll end up, honestly. But life is a journey and I'm still searching for my truth and my home.

Thank you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Some questions for self-reflection (that would help me help you as much as help you help yourself, potentially):

Why do you feel the concept of Adversary is tied to Abrahamic religions? Is it because these religions tend to be dualistic or is it something else? How do you feel about concepts like the "shadow self?"

You asked the question "why bother with Satanism when you feel drawn to pre-Christian deities." Think for a bit about your own question. I've got some ideas on that of my own, but I'll save them for the moment.

What is "shamanism" to you? What is "animism" to you? What are the "Runes" to you? What about the Greek deities feels unapproachable?

Do you think you want to attempt a historically authentic reconstructionist path or are you not interested in that kind of thing?

Another thing you'll want to really drill yourself hard on is why you have such an aversion to something connected to the Abrahamic faiths. I mention this because I tend to find such an aversion unhealthy. It speaks of baggage that needs to be left behind and resolved so you can see the beauty and benefits these religions have to offer. It shouldn't be something that holds you back or restricts you; it should be reconciled to the point you can draw on it as part of your past in a respectful fashion if you want to. If you had a genuinely abusive experience in the past I understand, but otherwise, I'd suggest trying to reconcile it in a more positive fashion that doesn't leave you not wanting to touch it with a twenty foot pole.

Lastly, as others have noted, if you're expecting to escape from infighting in the Neopagan community, you'll be disappointed. If you're expecting to not run into people who turn to the religion because they're "broken" you'll also be disappointed. Though honestly, I would say if you're expecting to escape from these things when interacting with any group of human beings regardless of who they are, you're going to be disappointed.

Maybe I didn't explain my feelings well enough. I don't know. They're just based on my observations and level of knowledge as it is now.

Basically I am tired of dualism. That's true. I think that humans as well as the spiritual world are a lot more complicated than that. At this point, I don't really want much to do with the Abrahamic paradigm because it's so foreign to my worldview as it is now. I have many other reasons to be against it but I won't get into it lest I offend anyone.

Of course there will be in-fighting in any group. But at least there tends to be common ground in most of them. Satanism tends to be all over the place and there's barely agreement on much of anything. Some people like that but, to me, it tends to be compound my feelings of loneliness. I've gone through a long period of my life shutting myself away from other people. I'm just now starting to make changes in my life that involve reconnecting with others so I'm starting to place a higher value on community than I did before. Satanism tends to be very much a "lone wolf" path. For some, that works for them. But I want to reach out to others now.

 

[crossfire]

Maybe I didn't explain my feelings well enough. I don't know. They're just based on my observations and level of knowledge as it is now.

Basically I am tired of dualism. That's true. I think that humans as well as the spiritual world are a lot more complicated than that. At this point, I don't really want much to do with the Abrahamic paradigm because it's so foreign to my worldview as it is now. I have many other reasons to be against it but I won't get into it lest I offend anyone.

Of course there will be in-fighting in any group. But at least there tends to be common ground in most of them. Satanism tends to be all over the place and there's barely agreement on much of anything. Some people like that but, to me, it tends to be compound my feelings of loneliness. I've gone through a long period of my life shutting myself away from other people. I'm just now starting to make changes in my life that involve reconnecting with others so I'm starting to place a higher value on community than I did before. Satanism tends to be very much a "lone wolf" path. For some, that works for them. But I want to reach out to others now.

Tired of duality, eh? Ready for living color?
A virtual prism spectrum gift for your journey! :rainbow1:

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Tired of duality, eh? Ready for living color?
A virtual prism spectrum gift for your journey! :rainbow1:

Ooh, that is very lovely. Thanks.

 

[honeri]

Good luck in your continuing search!

 

[apophenia]

.

Advice? Opinions?

Spend some extended periods alone in the wilderness, with no communications or entertainment devices or books.

See what happens when the only stimulus is the natural (you know what I mean) world, and there is nothing you need to say to anyone.

Move beyond ism.

 

[Shia Islam]

So I'm thinking about doing something else now. I guess it just doesn't speak to me that much in the long term. I've tried LaVeyan Satanism and Theistic Satanism. The concept of the Adversary makes great sense to me but ultimately I view it as too tied to the Abrahamic religions. I used to be Catholic and I ended up rejecting that. So I went to Satanism because, at its root, it's a rebellion against the culture at large. But it still makes me think about Christianity because when I talk to other Satanists, much of what they talk about is blaspheming Christianity. I can understand the need for blasphemy but it gets old after awhile. Also, another big problem for me is the lack of historical sources. There's really not much grounding outside of medieval rumors and bits and pieces of occultism (which I am also somewhat bored with). Also, Theistic Satanists tend to have to tie their idea of Satan to pre-Christian deities in order to make it "work". A lot of us tend to end up looking to Prometheus, Set, Enki, Tiamat and other figures to ground our beliefs in. Otherwise, they tend to honor a reinterpreted form of the Christian or Islamic Satan. One criticism of that is why bother with Satanism when you feel drawn to pre-Christian deities in the first place?

So it seems that there is really not much to go on after awhile. There's other issues, too. Satanism seems to draw in a lot of people who are rather broken and some that are more shallow. There's a lot of in-fighting and people just can't agree with each other. In the beginning, it was empowering to liberate myself from dogma and other people's opinions. So Satanism does have its uses, such as freeing the psyche and focusing on your own growth.

Anyway, so I think I'm starting to move away from that. At this point in time, I'm very interested in Germanic Paganism. There's many things I admire about it. I love how the Gods are viewed more like family rather than ultimate authorities that you must humble yourself towards. I admire the emphasis on courage, honor and pride. I also love the shamanistic and animistic aspects of it. The reverence for Nature and the land is very inspiring. I love how the cosomology is illustrated through Yggdrasil.

One draw back, though, is that I'm not too familiar with the lore. Also, the language barrier makes things hard, as well. I also have a liking for Hellenic Paganism. I'm much more familiar with the stories and the language is easier to comprehend and pronounce. But the Greek deities seem to be less approachable. There also seems to be missing a shamanistic aspect. They don't have things like the Runes. It's also not tied to the beautiful Northern European landscape, as with Norse religion.

So, at this point, I'm really interested in Asatru. I'm trying to learn more about it. I also need to read the Eddas. That's what I'm drawn to now, but I have a habit of jumping into things, declaring my beliefs as such and then getting "bored" with it. I'm a pretty restless person and change my views often. But for now, this where my interests lie.

Advice? Opinions?

It's clear that what you are after is something OTHER than religion...
Why did not you try ANOTHER religion after leaving Christianity?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So I've basically decided to go with Hellenimos. I did some more thinking and studying of it and I decided that I agree with that religion the most. I like the Orphic teachings of rebirth and the evolution of the Psyche (soul) to Divinity and eventual Godhood. I always did have a deep respect for the Gods and Heroes of Hellas.

Well, I just did my first devotion and libations. I feel satisfied with it. It's the first religious ritual that I've done in quite a while. So I will stick with it and see where it goes.

 

[Dingbat]

So I've basically decided to go with Hellenimos. I did some more thinking and studying of it and I decided that I agree with that religion the most. I like the Orphic teachings of rebirth and the evolution of the Psyche (soul) to Divinity and eventual Godhood. I always did have a deep respect for the Gods and Heroes of Hellas.

Well, I just did my first devotion and libations. I feel satisfied with it. It's the first religious ritual that I've done in quite a while. So I will stick with it and see where it goes.

Congrats on finding a path that works for you. I am rather jealous as I am currently at a point where I feel spiritually disconnected. Always nice to see a seeker find something they are looking for.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Congrats on finding a path that works for you. I am rather jealous as I am currently at a point where I feel spiritually disconnected. Always nice to see a seeker find something they are looking for.

Thanks. Keep searching. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for. Follow your interests.

 

[Dingbat]

Thanks. Keep searching. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for. Follow your interests.

Ironically after this exchange there was a raven hanging around outside my house. What an odd omen though it is interesting as it fits the constant thoughts I have had about paganism/heathenism. Though I doubt I could seriously do any polytheistic worship it would solely have to be one god. Still fascinating as ravens never come down into the valley ever.

 

[apophenia]

Ironically after this exchange there was a raven hanging around outside my house. What an odd omen though it is interesting as it fits the constant thoughts I have had about paganism/heathenism. Though I doubt I could seriously do any polytheistic worship it would solely have to be one god. Still fascinating as ravens never come down into the valley ever.

Generally when birds are found in places they do not usually frequent, it is because their usual territory is no longer viable for them for some reason. Like after a wildfire, lots of birds need to relocate. Or if there is sudden population pressure - like when trees get chopped down so that there is less choice of nesting sites. So it probably is a kind of omen - the raven's traditional territory is being changed.