There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Spirit of Light]

So in order to believe these claims, I must set logical thinking aside.

That about says it all, doesn't it?

Spiritual practice does not always look "logic" to a newbee, so try to actually practice without thinking "I MUST LEARN THIS"

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Just to clerify i dont take anything you say personally. I gone past long time ago now.
All i doing is to expose your lack of understanding of spiritual and religious practice.

No matter how big and fancy words you use against theists, it all comes down to you trying to boost your ego with saying how wrong theists are, but still you havent looked in to what theists actually practice daily.

Do that, then we can continue speaking.

Well, I do believe I can do that in some sense, but then I have learned to doubt more than just religion. So that is what make a difference between non-religious people in practice.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well, I do believe I can do that in some sense, but then I have learned to doubt more than just religion. So that is what make a difference between non-religious people in practice.

Atleast you have a sense of understanding both sides of the discussion

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Spiritual practice does not always look "logic" to a newbee, so try to actually practice without thinking "I MUST LEARN THIS"

Well, the joke about logic as with evidence is that if you accept that they can have a limit, then you can prove that something is illogical, yet that is true. That is a fun one. So there is a world beyond the rational and another way for which, in some cases that the world makes sense.

 

[KWED]

I see evidence for a designer (God) in the design in creation.

That is simply question begging. Why do you think the world has been designed by someone?

I do not believe in the idea of the bread baking itself - i.e. natural processes designing everything.

That is just the argument from personal incredulity. We know that natural processes can give rise to complex forms and systems. Your lack of understanding of the facts doesn't change them.

I have millions of examples of this proof.

It is not "proof". It is merely your inability to understand or accept the natural explanations for things.

The other evidence is in the Bible, which is proof of divine authorship.

There is nothing in the Bible that proves it was authored by a god. Apart from anything else, you can't claim someone did something until you have shown that the person exists. Which you haven't.

The other evidence is the effect of the power of God, not only on lives, but also on activities of people who belong to God.

So every god is real then?
Or do you claim that only the effects of your god are real, while the experiences of other religionists are merely imaginary?

Another evidence is the contrast between those who serve God, and those who don't.

There are monsters and angels in both camps, so not sure what your point is there.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well, the joke about logic as with evidence is that if you accept that they can have a limit, then you can prove that something is illogical, yet that is true. That is a fun one. So there is a world beyond the rational and another way for which, in some cases that the world makes sense.

The only limit in spiritual practice is the person him/her/it self. The teaching is the same for everyone, but how each person are able to grasp the untold truth within the teaching would be different from person to person who practice.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm not a theist, but "proof of God" can easily be found. All one has to do is look at the influence God(s) has had on our society.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not a theist, but "proof of God" can easily be found. All one has to do is look at the influence God(s) has had on our society.

Well, yes, for the idea of "God" but that is to me cultural beliefs about God and not God as such. At least in some cases.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Well, yes, for the idea of "God" but that is to me cultural beliefs about God and not God as such. At least in some cases.

I can see where you're coming from, but let's, for a moment, draw an analogy the "idea of 'God'" and the "idea of anxiety."

One cannot see, hear, smell, feel, touch, or taste anxiety in the physical sense, but anxiety is quite real, as there is abundant evidence of how anxiety influences one's behaviors.

One cannot see, hear, smell, feel, touch, or taste "God" in the physical sense, but "God" is quite real, as there is abundant evidence of how God influences one's behaviors.

While there isn't observable physical evidence of either anxiety or "God," the evidence of the products of both is overwhelming.

 

[Polymath257]

You can not find God by use of science.

And how can you find *and verify* that you have found God?

 

[Spirit of Light]

And how can you find *and verify* that you have found God?

The only verification that happens is through wisdom f4om the teaching and personal experiences, can not be proven to others by facts or science.

A personal awakening

 

[SalixIncendium]

Invisible unicorns anyone?

Are you offering? I've been considering getting a pet.

What do they eat? Can they be house trained?

 

[Polymath257]

I do agree that by use of science you will not find God, but i do not agree that God does not exist.

What does it mean to exist?

 

[ElishaElijah]

And how can you find *and verify* that you have found God?

When you are born again and God makes you spiritually alive, at that point you start to be able to communicate with God. He started to speak to
Me through His Word, for example I had this hatred for my Dad I knew was wrong and didn’t know where it was coming from. I was asking God about it and one day reading Proverbs 9:

“Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you; Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This Word came alive and cut through to the root of my hatred for my Dad. I hated my Dad because I was a scoffer, he confronted me when I was wrong and I hated him for it, I had convinced myself I my hatred was justified by all these other reasons. The Holy Spirit showed me this. I was actually glad when He showed me this and the hatred gone at that moment. God does this regularly.
“For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Polymath257]

What you lack to be able to "see" God is faith. Religious/spiritual practice is only based on faith until spiritual wisdom b3gin to rise within the person.

As an atheist, you lack that and can not find God

Do you realize that faith can also lead one into error?

How do you determine if the object of your faith is valid?

 

[Polymath257]

When you are born again and God makes you spiritually alive, at that point you start to be able to communicate with God. He started to speak to

So it is a purely subjective experience? In that case, it is more likely that I am simply delusional, isn't it?

Me through His Word, for example I had this hatred for my Dad I knew was wrong and didn’t know where it was coming from. I was asking God about it and one day reading Proverbs 9:

“Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you; Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This Word came alive and cut through to the root of my hatred for my Dad. I hated my Dad because I was a scoffer, he confronted me when I was wrong and I hated him for it, I had convinced myself I my hatred was justified by all these other reasons. The Holy Spirit showed me this. I was actually glad when He showed me this and the hatred gone at that moment. God does this regularly.

That was definitely a subjective experience. Now, how do you know it corresponded with reality?

 

[Polymath257]

The only verification that happens is through wisdom f4om the teaching and personal experiences, can not be proven to others by facts or science.

A personal awakening

And people have 'personal awakenings' all the time and most of them are false.

How do I determine if mine is valid?

 

[Spirit of Light]

What does it mean to exist?

That God exist, in spirit or in different form than what humans see as existence

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Just to clerify i dont take anything you say personally. I gone past long time ago now.

You said in response to @Sheldon that he is "looking down on people". Not that he is looking down on "beliefs". That is pretty much making it personal.

No matter how big and fancy words you use against theists, it all comes down to you trying to boost your ego with saying how wrong theists are, but still you havent looked in to what theists actually practice daily.

Another thing theists tend to do is continually say that "we haven't looked into it" when we disagree.
As if it is the only option.

You are incorrect.

I did look into it. I formed my conclusions, which I share here.
The methodology is flawed. Faith is not a pathway to truth. On the type of "faith" YOU yourself are describing, one can believe literally anything. It's a methodology that inevitably ends up in believing falsehoods, because there is no mechanism to distinguish accurate claims from false claims.

If and when faith does lead to an accurate belief, it is just a coincidence. Kind of like how a broken clock is also correct twice a day.

It really is that simple.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And people have 'personal awakenings' all the time and most of them are false.

How do I determine if mine is valid?

I can not speak for other peoples awakening