• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Just because you can not see God does not mean God does not exist.

Well there you go, that's how easy it is to create a meaningless unfalsifiable idea. It's also a straw man fallacy of course, since I never remotely claimed this.

Btw about Unicorns...yes I believe they might exist, but not nessesary in this dimension we live in.

Well you can believe they are made of icing sugar if it makes you happy, but I'm not sure the ludicrously low bar you seem to have for belief is a compelling argument for your beliefs, quite the opposite in fact.

Other places unknown to humans may exist

Do you know what the law of non contradiction is? You just violated it in a single sentence, which means that sentence is irrational by definition. It's hard to believe anyone can't see a contradiction that obvious mind, so I may be falling for an elaborate windup?

Oh what the Hell, I'll bite, if this is unknown to humans. and you (one assumes?) are human, you can't rationally make any claims about it.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
...

Other places unknown to humans may exist
Do you know what the law of non contradiction is? You just violated it in a single sentence, which means that sentence is irrational by definition. It's hard to believe anyone can't see a contradiction that obvious mind, so I may be falling for an elaborate windup?

How is that a contradiction?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Well there you go, that's how easy it is to create a meaningless unfalsifiable idea. It's also a straw man fallacy of course, since I never remotely claimed this.



Well you can believe they are made of icing sugar if it makes you happy, but I'm not sure the ludicrously low bar you seem to have for belief is a compelling argument for your beliefs, quite the opposite in fact.



Do you know what the law of non contradiction is? You just violated it in a single sentence, which means that sentence is irrational by definition. It's hard to believe anyone can't see a contradiction that obvious mind, so I may be falling for an elaborate windup?

Oh what the Hell, I'll bite, if this is unknown to humans. and you (one assumes?) are human, you can't rationally make any claims about it.
I have wanted to say this for so long....do you know how much poop you are able to get in to your answers in RF? Your attempt on " False clames toward theists" are pathetic. Honestly you haven't got a single clue about what faith is...
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Choosing a normally good life is not inherently connected to the divine. That is simple intelligence. Choosing to live better than that is a divine choice.

What do you mean with a "better live then that" and how / why would it be connected to a "divine choice"?
I don't get it.

What's, for example, the threshold were "better" becomes "divine"?


When you choose to live at personal cost for the benefit of all, you are making a divine choice, not merely a human choice. You briefly ascend above mere human nature, and you show that there is something better than good. There is a level of goodness which we cannot normally achieve, because it is self destructive.

How is that different from simple altruism?

It is, for us, out of balance and not achievable -- what the ancients call heavenly, meaning it is beyond what we can achieve.

This makes no sense to me. If somebody does it, doesn't that in fact prove that it in fact is feasible / achievable?

Let me try to explain that God is not god nor related to gods. gods are beings or forces that are related to the physical world in some way. God is not a god. God is conceptual. Christian NT says "God is spirit" which is the same thing I think, although what divides us from concept may only be that we are limited. We are bound to certain rules and exist under the conditions of physical existence. We have passions. God doesn't, and God doesn't share our limitations or our interests. My understanding is that the only area in which God overlaps with us is in the conceptual realm.

If that "God" is only a concept, an abstract, then what does it in fact mean?
Sounds to me like you are using a lot of words to say virtually nothing. You thus could just call it altruism and be done with it, no?

So it is unhealthy to try to prove God exists. This is backwards and leads to people mistaking God for a god. Then they don't even have the concept, so what is the point?

Well, sure. If it is just a concept, then there is nothing to prove or support, because concepts only exist between our ears.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I have wanted to say this for so long....do you know how much poop you are able to get in to your answers in RF? Your attempt on " False clames toward theists" are pathetic. Honestly you haven't got a single clue about what faith is...

Well, if @Sheldon could sometimes back up some of his claims, we might get somewhere. But sometimes they come across as unevidenced dogma themselves.

To me how people claim some aspects of the everyday world has nothing to do with standard religion. But that is just me.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
What you lack to be able to "see" God is faith

Sure. With "faith" you can "see" anything. Including things that don't exist.
There is nothing that can't be believe on "faith".

I don't consider that to be a good thing. Faith is not a virtue. Faith in that sense is just gullibility imo.


Religious/spiritual practice is only based on faith until spiritual wisdom b3gin to rise within the person.
As an atheist, you lack that and can not find God

If that is the only way to "find god", then that god is indistinguishable from imagination.

Not only do I "lack" such faith - I actively and purposefully avoid it and stay away from it.
I don't consider such "faith" to be a good thing.

In fact, I could easily make a case to state that such "faith" is in fact immoral.

This "faith" is what con-men prey on.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Well, if @Sheldon could sometimes back up some of his claims, we might get somewhere. But sometimes they come across as unevidenced dogma themselves.

To me how people claim some aspects of the everyday world has nothing to do with standard religion. But that is just me.
It does not help him to be a master of fancy words if he have no clue about the topic, but only know how to look down on people who are different than him self.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I have wanted to say this for so long....do you know how much poop you are able to get in to your answers in RF? Your attempt on " False clames toward theists" are pathetic. Honestly you haven't got a single clue about what faith is...

We have a much better idea that you are willing to acknowledge.
In fact, you have just explained what it is.

The simple summary is that it is what allows you to believe unfalsifiable claims and / or claims that aren't in evidence.

On that kind of "faith", there is NOTHING you can't believe.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Sure. With "faith" you can "see" anything. Including things that don't exist.
There is nothing that can't be believe on "faith".

I don't consider that to be a bad thing. Faith is not a virtue. Faith in that sense is just gullibility imo.




If that is the only way to "find god", then that god is indistinguishable from imagination.

Not only do I "lack" such faith - I actively and purposefully avoid it and stay away from it.
I don't consider such "faith" to be a good thing.

In fact, I could easily make a case to state that such "faith" is in fact immoral.

This "faith" is what con-men prey on.
Well, yougiving the answer to your own claim of no God, in the sense that you dont even dare to look at the way spiritual teachings teach how to find God, so since you backing out even before you tried, you already lost the battle.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?


Dear Xavier Graham,

You will find no more worldly evidence of God than you will find worldly evidence of love. Both can only be “seen” in and through the actions of those who behold them in their hearts and minds. And, it is suitable here to recall that many are those who claim to love, yet in action prove that they do not. The same can be said for those who claim to live in God, but through their actions disprove it.


Humbly
Hermit
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
We have a much better idea that you are willing to acknowledge.
In fact, you have just explained what it is.

The simple summary is that it is what allows you to believe unfalsifiable claims and / or claims that aren't in evidence.

On that kind of "faith", there is NOTHING you can't believe.
You still dont understand that you must put away the "logic thinking" you learned by science
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
It does not help him to be a master of fancy words if he have no clue about the topic, but only know how to look down on people who are different than him self.

You, and theists in general I might add, tend to confuse "looking down on beliefs" with "looking down on people".

You take critcism of your beliefs as criticism on your person, because these beliefs are personal and emotional.

You would not consider criticism of, for example, theories of gravity that you accept, as an attack on your person, because those beliefs aren't personal or emotional. They aren't based on this personal notion of "faith". Instead, they are based on evidence.

I see this behavior all the time.
It's why in such debates, people like to throw around accusations of "ad hominin" while nothing of the sort is going on.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Well, yougiving the answer to your own claim of no God

I have never made that claim. Stop arguing strawmen.

, in the sense that you dont even dare to look at the way spiritual teachings teach how to find God, so since you backing out even before you tried, you already lost the battle.

This has nothing to do with "daring" and everything with understanding that the methodology is flawed and not worth my time and energy.

I have standards of evidence to justify beliefs and I see no reason to alter them.
You are asking me to give up my standards of evidence and lower them to a point where one could justify belief in literally ANYTHING.

This methodology is a good way of ending up with false beliefs.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
It does not help him to be a master of fancy words if he have no clue about the topic, but only know how to look down on people who are different than him self.

Let me honest or try to. It has nothing to do with @Sheldon as such. It has to do with that even logic has a limit for what you can do with it. And some people don't understand the limit of logic or even use logic in a moral sense.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?
Of course, we will each have our position. I see it this way, two doctors look at the same evidence but come up with two different diagnosis.

Likewise, we look at the same evidence but come to two different philosophical worldviews.

I like the way Paul expressed it in Romans 1 when he said:

"It is not that they do not know the truth about God; indeed he has made it quite plain to them. For since the beginning of the world the invisible attributes of God, e.g. his eternal power and divinity, have been plainly discernible through things which he has made and which are commonly seen and known, thus leaving these men without a rag of excuse. They knew all the time that there is a God, yet they refused to acknowledge him as such, or to thank him for what he is or does. Thus they became fatuous in their argumentations, and plunged their silly minds still further into the dark."

So we look at the world and come to two different conclusions.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
You, and theists in general I might add, tend to confuse "looking down on beliefs" with "looking down on people".

You take critcism of your beliefs as criticism on your person, because these beliefs are personal and emotional.

You would not consider criticism of, for example, theories of gravity that you accept, as an attack on your person, because those beliefs aren't personal or emotional. They aren't based on this personal notion of "faith". Instead, they are based on evidence.

I see this behavior all the time.
It's why in such debates, people like to throw around accusations of "ad hominin" while nothing of the sort is going on.
Just to clerify :) i dont take anything you say personally. I gone past long time ago now.
All i doing is to expose your lack of understanding of spiritual and religious practice.

No matter how big and fancy words you use against theists, it all comes down to you trying to boost your ego with saying how wrong theists are, but still you havent looked in to what theists actually practice daily.

Do that, then we can continue speaking.
 
Top