Well I see they are sound statements.
They are also the quandary we face when judging those that claim a Message.
Regards Tony
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There is no argument to be used against a Messenger
Well I see they are sound statements.
They are also the quandary we face when judging those that claim a Message.
Regards Tony
I see no quandary, I see a person saying 'i am gods messenger, believe me'.
Without falsifiable evidence that god sent the messenger what you have is either a liar, delusional or a schizophrenic.
They One and all do make the Claim and it is by their fruits we come to know them.
One can not be a false claimant, if there are no claims.
It is also the same for us, if we claim faith in a Messenger, we will be known by our fruits.
Regards Tony
You forgot the most logical choice.
Or they speak naught but the Truth.
Regards Tony
That's a cop out. If you have Truth then it applies to everyone. If you have Truth then you can answer the questions about it. If you are only offering a compromised "truth" that is only valid because people have decided it's true, then it isn't what you are implying when you refer to a God, because that is a word that has a presumption of applying to everyone. That's a terrible Truth. It's deceptive. Who would want it? Why expose that your "truth" is compromised and limited by personal whim?
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I would expect a real messenger to be humble and focus on anything but themselves.
Without falsifiable evidence they speak.
There is no way of determining if it's truth or not.
I see that is the only way we can determine if it is Truth. Why, because we are not the embodiment of that Truth but the Messengers are, that is a consequence of being given such a claim.
This is what they face, it is recorded in the Holy books the struggles they face with the knowledge of the trust they have been given.
So if we are shown by a Messenger what it is to be the embodiment of Truthfulness, we will be able to judge that against our own actions.
If we are told Truthfulness is the foundation of all virtues, then we can judge that against our own actions and against the actions of humanity as a whole. The Messengers will be the standard of that virtue.
Anyway, in the end we need the virtues to unfold for humanity, to enable us to embrace a unity of purpose. So let's hope that truthfulness wins through.
Regards Tony
Agreed. Then that is a standard we can look for in all those that make that Claim.
So Humility is on the list to look out for.
Regards Tony
ppp
Well-Known Member
Yeah. I would expect a real messenger to take a subtle and anonymous approach; rather than found a cult of personality.
Sounds like circular double speak to feed confirmation bias
Coincident isn't it?
BTW. We all struggle at some point
First you need to confirm the messenger is truthful. And so far no claimed messenger of god has provided falsifiable evidence that they are messengers of a god.
Why? Assume the claimed messenger is lying then the whole faith is built on a lie. Assume the claimed messenger is schizophrenic then the whole faith is built on mental illness.
What virtues, what purpose?
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Except little white lies... like Abraham telling an Egyptian King that Sarah was his sister and not his wife. Oh, so when Baha'u'llah said that Noah taught his message for 950 years, that is true? No, there's always things that just aren't believable about some of these messengers. Or...the writers that told the story got it wrong. Do you believe that? Like when the writers have Jesus talking about demons and Satan and casting demons out of people, they got it wrong?
Who says that a messanger of God has to claim to be a messanger of God?
It is all relevant to our capacity of understanding CG.
Yes all the Messengers are Truthful and Trustworthy, no shadow of doubt.
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
You have to prove this. Give us even one single point as to how to differentiate between one who is called a prophet and a charlatan.
Wildswanderer said, "Let's not forget that Satan also has messagers and they lie for him." (Post # 71)
I see much humility in what Bahaollah wrote.
Yeah, exactly. They can do their work without claiming anything. If they are really messengers of any God, then God will make their words come true. No Indian sage or social reformer made any such claim.
Basically God does not even require their help. God can do whatever he desires on his own. Because of this, I doubt if there were any messengers.
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firedragon
Veteran Member
Nah. that's the epitome of a burden of proof fallacy.
Yes that will be so, when it is Baha'u'llah speaking as a man like us.
When it is God speaking through Baha'u'llah, God does not speak with humility.
Regards Tony