There is no argument to be used against a Messenger

[TransmutingSoul]

He couldn’t handle TWO PEOPLE. THE ONLY TWO PEOPLE WHO EXISTED.

The story of Adam and Eve is highly symbolic.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I will leave that up to you CG, all the best in that search.

Regards Tony

Here's a little bit of the things I found about Krishna in the Baha'i writings. The quotes mentioning Zoroaster and Buddha are also interesting.

12. As regards your study of the Hindu religion: The origins of this and many other religions that abound in India are not quite known to us, and even the Orientalists and the students of religion are not in complete accord about the results of their investigations in that field. The Bahá'í writings also do not refer specifically to any of these forms of religion current in India. So, the Guardian feels it impossible to give you any definite and detailed information on that subject. He would urge you, however, to carry on your studies in that field, although its immensity is wellnigh bewildering, with the view of bringing the Message to the Hindus. The task of converting this section of the Indian population is a most vital obligation, although the Guardian is fully aware of the many difficulties that it presents. Nevertheless the friends should do their best to make as many converts among the Hindus as they possibly can.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 17 April 1936)

17. Your question concerning Brahma and Krishna: such matters, as no reference occurs to them in the Teachings, are left for students of history and religion to resolve and clarify.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 14 April 1941)

18. Zoroaster lived about a thousand years before Christ. There is no exact date in the teachings regarding the beginning of His Dispensation. The personages in Zenda-Avesta cannot be absolutely relied upon, as the Avesta is not to be regarded as the authentic compilation of the writings of the Prophet.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 30 July 1941 to a National Committee and an individual believer)

19. Confucius was not a Prophet. It is quite correct to say he is the founder of a moral system and a great reformer. The Buddha was a Manifestation of God, like Christ, but His followers do not possess His authentic writings.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 26 December 1941 to the National Spiritual Assembly of Australia and New) Zealand)

20. In the Bahá'í teachings it states that all the Prophets have foretold a Promised One Who is Bahá'u'lláh. We cannot be sure of the authenticity, word for word, of any of the past Holy Scriptures except the Quran, as they were either not written down during the Prophet's lifetime or have been changed in the course of time and the originals lost; what we can be sure of is that when Bahá'u'lláh or the Master stated that Zoroaster foretold a Promised One's coming, it is correct. The Zoroastrians have no way of contradicting this assertion of ours, as they themselves know their scriptures are not in the original form, and therefore not absolutely authentic.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 22 June 1943)
​

So, the Zorastrian writings aren't authentic. Nor what the Buddhists have. And Baha'is can't be sure of any of the Scriptures except the Quran. Here's one more thing.

25. As there were no followers of The Báb or Bahá'u'lláh derived from the religions of the Far East in Their days, this may be the reason that They did not address any Tablets directly to these people. Also we must remember that every religion springs from some root, and just as Christianity sprang from Judaism, our own religion sprang from Islam, and that is why so many of the teachings deduce their proofs from Islam.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 5 March 1957)​

The Baha'i Faith didn't "spring" from just Islam. They "sprang" from all of them. At least that is what Baha'is claim with their concept of progressive revelation.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, but God renews them applicable to each age. Part of the law is acceptance of God's Covenants and the Major Covenant is that God never leaves us without guidance.

So the Jew, in light of the Covenants, is now required to practice the Law as given in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas. In the time of Muhammad the Jew would have fulfilled the Covenants by embracing Muhammad and the Law given in the Quran.

Regards Tony

It's just this "abrogation" thing. It's as if the social laws given in one religion, in one area, in one culture, would no longer apply. How do you make the Laws of Moses work in the religions that came before it? Then Buddha came after Moses, so what social laws did Buddha brings that should have replaced the social laws of the Hebrew Bible?

 

[CG Didymus]

The story of Adam and Eve is highly symbolic.

Regards Tony

Or highly mythical? I know that implies that the story is man-made. Is that the problem Baha'is have with calling some of these stories... myth? Whereas, by calling the stories symbolic, Baha'is can still say they came from God?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Here's a little bit of the things I found about Krishna in the Baha'i writings. The quotes mentioning Zoroaster and Buddha are also interesting.

12. As regards your study of the Hindu religion: The origins of this and many other religions that abound in India are not quite known to us, and even the Orientalists and the students of religion are not in complete accord about the results of their investigations in that field. The Bahá'í writings also do not refer specifically to any of these forms of religion current in India. So, the Guardian feels it impossible to give you any definite and detailed information on that subject. He would urge you, however, to carry on your studies in that field, although its immensity is wellnigh bewildering, with the view of bringing the Message to the Hindus. The task of converting this section of the Indian population is a most vital obligation, although the Guardian is fully aware of the many difficulties that it presents. Nevertheless the friends should do their best to make as many converts among the Hindus as they possibly can.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 17 April 1936)

17. Your question concerning Brahma and Krishna: such matters, as no reference occurs to them in the Teachings, are left for students of history and religion to resolve and clarify.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 14 April 1941)

18. Zoroaster lived about a thousand years before Christ. There is no exact date in the teachings regarding the beginning of His Dispensation. The personages in Zenda-Avesta cannot be absolutely relied upon, as the Avesta is not to be regarded as the authentic compilation of the writings of the Prophet.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 30 July 1941 to a National Committee and an individual believer)

19. Confucius was not a Prophet. It is quite correct to say he is the founder of a moral system and a great reformer. The Buddha was a Manifestation of God, like Christ, but His followers do not possess His authentic writings.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 26 December 1941 to the National Spiritual Assembly of Australia and New) Zealand)

20. In the Bahá'í teachings it states that all the Prophets have foretold a Promised One Who is Bahá'u'lláh. We cannot be sure of the authenticity, word for word, of any of the past Holy Scriptures except the Quran, as they were either not written down during the Prophet's lifetime or have been changed in the course of time and the originals lost; what we can be sure of is that when Bahá'u'lláh or the Master stated that Zoroaster foretold a Promised One's coming, it is correct. The Zoroastrians have no way of contradicting this assertion of ours, as they themselves know their scriptures are not in the original form, and therefore not absolutely authentic.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 22 June 1943)
​

So, the Zorastrian writings aren't authentic. Nor what the Buddhists have. And Baha'is can't be sure of any of the Scriptures except the Quran. Here's one more thing.

25. As there were no followers of The Báb or Bahá'u'lláh derived from the religions of the Far East in Their days, this may be the reason that They did not address any Tablets directly to these people. Also we must remember that every religion springs from some root, and just as Christianity sprang from Judaism, our own religion sprang from Islam, and that is why so many of the teachings deduce their proofs from Islam.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 5 March 1957)​

The Baha'i Faith didn't "spring" from just Islam. They "sprang" from all of them. At least that is what Baha'is claim with their concept of progressive revelation.

That is why it is important to know the entire Message of Baha’u’llah.

Replies to individual questions can have a short precise answer, that is correct in the context of the question asked. To answer in full is to provide the entire revelation, or at the minimum a monumental essay.

This is what we must consider when reading the Baha'i and all past scriptures. Also knowing the accuracy of every 'Word' should not be a focus, especially the older the scriptures are prior to the Quran.

Translation is an art and very prone to adding interpretation.

Buddhism is a good example, look how many practice it now, after it became a fad amongst spiritualist. It has become a plaything for many.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's just this "abrogation" thing. It's as if the social laws given in one religion, in one area, in one culture, would no longer apply. How do you make the Laws of Moses work in the religions that came before it? Then Buddha came after Moses, so what social laws did Buddha brings that should have replaced the social laws of the Hebrew Bible?

Consider what metephor the Bible offers when it is written that we will have a 'New Heaven' and a 'New Earth' at the end of an age. That all things are made new.

What that is, is the new Message and the New Laws that are the fruit of that Message.

Abrogation for me is that new start. We do not have to dwell on the changes required in the past, our aim is for the future.

"The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements....."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 213

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Or highly mythical? I know that implies that the story is man-made. Is that the problem Baha'is have with calling some of these stories... myth? Whereas, by calling the stories symbolic, Baha'is can still say they came from God?

This may require an understanding of what both Baha'u'llah offered and what Abdul'baha explained.

Personally I see it as the birth of the Spiritual Capacity of Humanity. Adam (the first Messenger, an example of perfect humanity) and Eve the Soul of man. When read in that light, we can see the struggle within each of us between our potential divinity and our animal self, by use of our given capacity of rational soul/mind.

In that light we can also see what the symbolic meaning of being born again is. It is the transcending of the animal self to embrace the Spirit of that perfect humanity, (Messengers) embracing those born of the Holy Spirit.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

How effective were they the first time?

I think bringing billions and/or millions of people together in a common cause is no small feat. Even with Muhammad He appeared amongst barbaric nomadic tribes who were always at war with one another and united them into one nation with laws and great civilisations with arts and sciences sprung out of Islam and Christianity.

But now we live in a world where a universal solution is required to unite the contending and conflicting races, nationalities and religions and Baha’u’llah has appeared and called for a further widening of the circle from nationalism to internationalism and calls on humanity to establish an all inclusive order based on human rights and justice.

He says: Let your vision be world embracing rather than confined to your own selves, It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.

So we still keep our own religion or no religion (atheist and humanists) and our love for our own country and culture but just widen the system to include all humanity. He says our common denominator is our humanity. That justice and human rights must be for all.

Now many object and maintain this cannot be achieved. But the Baha’i World Community is proof that a world governing body elected democratically can run the affairs of over 360 national entities peacefully without any wars or oppression and has been offered to the UN as a model upon which a future world civilisation can be built.

 

[loverofhumanity]

When the turmoil gets so bad that things look as if there is no hope, who do Baha'is say the world will turn to? After the lessor peace has been going on for a while, what will be the final, necessary steps for the world to achieve the Most Great Peace?

Hi CG. I really appreciate your very good questions as they make me think and question my own understanding. Much of what you post is very true I believe and often you put things better than I possibly could. So always please understand you have my deepest respect.

As far as my understanding goes the Lesser Peace will be the political unification of humanity which will improve things a lot as there will be no more war.

But there still will be things like drug addiction, domestic violence, alcoholism, crime, general unhappiness as the realisation dawns that happiness cannot be acquired from material things alone. Can prejudice against another’s race, religion or nationality really bring us happiness? So Peace will rule but not inner peace just no wars.

The Most Great Peace as I understand it is the ‘spiritualisation of humanity’ as opposed to just a political unity. This spiritualisation will involve acceptance of all people as brothers and sisters. Previously, the only force capable of bonding people so closely has been religion, so in order for people to move into a deeper relationship than just a common political one, I believe religion will be a major factor as it always has been.

But the bottom line to the question you asked, regardless of the Baha’i views is that the destiny of humanity is in its own hands. Humanity chose the two world wars over Baha’u’llah and maybe even a third war. So all along, it is humanity calling the shots and choosing which path to walk and they have chosen against following Baha’u’llah so far and so if they ever do choose it will be their choice and their choice alone.

God has allowed the world to go its own way and so it does. Baha’is keep appealing that there’s a better way but the world rejects it.

So it doesn’t matter if Baha’is believe that the world will eventually turn to Baha’u’llah but what is important here is that it will have to be humanity’s choice just like now it chooses not to accept Him.

 

[CG Didymus]

Consider what metephor the Bible offers when it is written that we will have a 'New Heaven' and a 'New Earth' at the end of an age. That all things are made new.

Again, the Bible and the NT are being thought of as one thing. Judaism has their beliefs about what the Messianic age will be like, and the Christians have their beliefs about the new Earth and new Jerusalem that will come down from heaven when Jesus returns.

But then Islam has theirs. Buddhism and Hinduism has theirs. The reality of what is happening now, more than 150 years after "the Christ" returned as Baha'u'llah, we don't have anything new. There is no Messianic age. The old age is still crumbling. Baha'is have their explanation why that is, but where in any of the prophesies in any of the other religions does it say that Kalki, that the Maitreya, that Jesus, or the Mahdi or whoever would come, die and the world would get worse? I've asked this question several times.

So again, what are the Scriptures Baha'is use to support their belief that the Messiah comes, dies, and the old world continues to crumble and get worse while the "new world" slowly, very slowly, starts building up?

What that is, is the new Message and the New Laws that are the fruit of that Message.

In the Baha'i communities, how well are these new laws working? What is the fruit of these new laws? Is there still lying, cheating, adultery, and all the other evils that plague society still happening within the Baha'i community? Are Is the behavior of Baha'is significantly different than non-Baha'is? If not, what is the fruit of the message?

Abrogation for me is that new start. We do not have to dwell on the changes required in the past, our aim is for the future.

I don't think there is a strong enough connection between the different religions to even think that they a progression of teachings about one God and from one God. So, I think it's something that we should "dwell" on to see if this belief and teaching of the Baha'i Faith is true.

So, let's look at the social laws of each religion and see how the next one "abrogated" them. Any order you think is correct will be fine. If we put Hinduism first, then what were those laws. What next? Maybe Judaism? They have lots of laws and instructions on how to do animal sacrifices. How does that tie in and abrogate the laws of Hinduism? Then what? Zoroastrianism or Buddhism? Whichever... What laws did they bring and how did they abrogate the laws of Judaism? Then we get to Christianity. What were the new laws that were brought by Jesus? Then Islam, why is there so many Sharia laws? And those laws were the newest and truest laws of God until the Bab in 1844?

But you know what I believe that the people in that particular culture, at that particular time, made up their own laws and beliefs about the Gods. Later cultures could have adapted or adopted some of the laws and beliefs of other cultures or made up their own mythology about the Gods and what laws those Gods demanded the people to follow. The Baha'i explanation doesn't cover or account for all the different people and cultures that had their own Gods and religion and their own laws. It only has the major religions in it. And then the Baha'i Faith doesn't even believe the stories in those religions are literally true. Which makes it too easy for Baha'is to say anything they want about those other religions.

If that works for you, fine. And I can see why Baha'is wouldn't want to "dwell" on it.

 

[CG Didymus]

God has allowed the world to go its own way and so it does. Baha’is keep appealing that there’s a better way but the world rejects it.

And why would an all-knowing God let the people of the world go their own way? Especially when the stories in so many religions, like Judaism, have God intervening to guide them and almost force them to follow and obey his laws.

And prior to the Baha'i Faith, which religion should the people of the world follow? According to Baha'i beliefs, are any of them are going in the right direction? Do any of them have the right beliefs and practices? Yet, all those religions "appealed" and exhorted the people of the world to believe and follow their teachings, their wrong teachings.

The largest religion, Christianity, compared to what Baha'is say is true, are one of the furthest religions from the truth... with their belief in the Trinity and in Satan and in their beliefs about salvation. Yet... they appeal like crazy. "Come to Jesus all you sinners and be saved! Don't be deceived by Satan. Jesus is the only way!" Should their interpretations of the Bible and the NT be rejected? I would think that most all Baha'is would say "yes"... that those beliefs are wrong... that those Christians have taken the Scriptures too literal and have added in their own wrong interpretations. So, "no", appeals from religions about there being a better way isn't always true and should be rejected.

Now the question is... why believe the Baha'i Faith is any different? The basic things like, "Okay, you say your prophet was sent by God, prove it. And while you're at it prove there is a God," These are important and legitimate questions. Because, even Baha'is, don't believe many of the things taught as being true in the other religions. We need proof and evidence. And that's where even Baha'is are stuck and can only say, "Well, I believe", "I take it on faith" or "I researched it and I'm convinced it is true." And then you're asked, "What is it that convinced you?" And, to them, the answer is always, "That is not proof. That is subjective not objective evidence."

So, we continue asking the same types of questions and we get the same types of answers. But there is one important thing going on... It is the way Baha'is answer. Is it with respect and humility? Not always. Unfortunately, some Baha'is sound almost like a radical fundamentalist, that believes they are the only one that knows the truth. That never comes off right. It almost always does nothing but push people away. If Baha'is really do have the truth, I think they have to be the ones that find ways to build bridges and help bring people together.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If that works for you, fine. And I can see why Baha'is wouldn't want to "dwell" on it.

I hope you fine what you are looking for CG.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And prior to the Baha'i Faith, which religion should the people of the world follow?

Babi Faith and prior to that Islam.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

And why would an all-knowing God let the people of the world go their own way? Especially when the stories in so many religions, like Judaism, have God intervening to guide them and almost force them to follow and obey his laws.

And prior to the Baha'i Faith, which religion should the people of the world follow? According to Baha'i beliefs, are any of them are going in the right direction? Do any of them have the right beliefs and practices? Yet, all those religions "appealed" and exhorted the people of the world to believe and follow their teachings, their wrong teachings.

The largest religion, Christianity, compared to what Baha'is say is true, are one of the furthest religions from the truth... with their belief in the Trinity and in Satan and in their beliefs about salvation. Yet... they appeal like crazy. "Come to Jesus all you sinners and be saved! Don't be deceived by Satan. Jesus is the only way!" Should their interpretations of the Bible and the NT be rejected? I would think that most all Baha'is would say "yes"... that those beliefs are wrong... that those Christians have taken the Scriptures too literal and have added in their own wrong interpretations. So, "no", appeals from religions about there being a better way isn't always true and should be rejected.

Now the question is... why believe the Baha'i Faith is any different? The basic things like, "Okay, you say your prophet was sent by God, prove it. And while you're at it prove there is a God," These are important and legitimate questions. Because, even Baha'is, don't believe many of the things taught as being true in the other religions. We need proof and evidence. And that's where even Baha'is are stuck and can only say, "Well, I believe", "I take it on faith" or "I researched it and I'm convinced it is true." And then you're asked, "What is it that convinced you?" And, to them, the answer is always, "That is not proof. That is subjective not objective evidence."

So, we continue asking the same types of questions and we get the same types of answers. But there is one important thing going on... It is the way Baha'is answer. Is it with respect and humility? Not always. Unfortunately, some Baha'is sound almost like a radical fundamentalist, that believes they are the only one that knows the truth. That never comes off right. It almost always does nothing but push people away. If Baha'is really do have the truth, I think they have to be the ones that find ways to build bridges and help bring people together.

Hi CG.

Firstly, God is the judge not Baha’is so God judges through His Manifestations and we Baha’is accept whatever They decree as we believe it is from God.

Tell me, how did the Jews believe in Moses or the Christians in Christ or Muslims in Muhammad when they have never met any of These Messengers?

It’s their scriptures. The Jews follow and believe in the Torah, the Christians the Gospels and the Muslims the Quran as none of these ever met the Prophets. The Baha’is believe in Baha’u’llah because of His Writings as we too have never met Him.

Now in all these religions it is said in their Holy Books that in the future a Messiah will appear and at the end of the age a Promised One will come to judge all humanity. This is in their own Holy Books.

Why do they accept their own Holy Books but not the Holy Writings of Baha’u’llah? Most I believe have not investigated but instead followed whatever their clergy has told them. So when Jesus came the Jews followed their leaders who said He was an imposter and the same with Christians. When Muhammad appeared only about seventy Christians believed, the others choosing to follow their clergy. With Muslims too they follow their religious leaders and denounced the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

If you seek proof of Moses refer to the Torah and of Jesus, the Gospels and of Muhammad, the Quran for there is no other proof and nobody has met Them. So too if you want proof Baha’u’llah is from God, read and study His Writings because these are the proof as in all the other religions.

You keep saying that the Baha’is are telling other religions they have it wrong. No that couldn’t be further from the truth. It was Christ Who told the Jews that if they believed in Moses they would have accepted Him. Muhammad in the Quran said there was no such thing as the trinity or a physical son of God. And again it is Baha’u’llah Who admonishes the leaders of religion for rejecting Him saying that to reject Him is to also reject their own Messenger as Baha’u’llah was foretold in their own Holy Books but they choose to listen to their clergy instead of following God’s Word.

So this is God judging mankind not Baha’is.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the Baha'i communities, how well are these new laws working? What is the fruit of these new laws? Is there still lying, cheating, adultery, and all the other evils that plague society still happening within the Baha'i community? Are Is the behavior of Baha'is significantly different than non-Baha'is? If not, what is the fruit of the message?

Best to go meet some Baha'is to find out CG.

But for me, it is good to remember one of the best lessons the Bible has to offer, that is a metephor, given in a way that it is clear what it is actually saying.

Matthew 7:3-5 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

We all live in a world that is crass materialism CG, some can change overnight, some it takes a lifetime, some do not manage a full change.

Such is life and our choices.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't think there is a strong enough connection between the different religions to even think that they a progression of teachings about one God and from one God. So, I think it's something that we should "dwell" on to see if this belief and teaching of the Baha'i Faith is true.

We have ventured into that in the past CG. I would suggest you find a scripture that talks of a core value and see if you can find that same teaching across all other faiths. There was an 18000 reply long post where I suggested the participants try this, that we would find the same fruit across all faiths, albeit in slightly different wording.

I have a big audit at work at this time. Also renovating the bathroom. Maybe I should retire to devote time to such questions? But who knows if we will have a house tomorrow? The world full of other faiths still waits for a fulfillment? All I can do as a Baha'i is life of peace and unity that I see has already been offered in fulfillment of all other expectations.

Then I remember, there is no retirement in the Baha'i Faith, we have a responsibility to endeavour to support our own selves, why we can. Imagine, there is one problem solved already, how to fund an aging population.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Babi Faith and prior to that Islam.

Regards Tony

You really think Islam had the teachings and the beliefs that the whole world needed? Christians, Jews and all the people that believed in all the other religions should have accepted Islam?

 

[CG Didymus]

It’s their scriptures.

Let's just look at the Christian Scriptures, the NT. I don't see anywhere that it supports any other religion other than Judaism, and Christians veered a long way away from Judaism. Satan, hell, and salvation seems to be what it's all about. They connect their Scriptures onto the Hebrew Bible, but they don't follow it.

You keep saying that the Baha’is are telling other religions they have it wrong.

Okay, what other religion, other than the Baha'i Faith, do Baha'is believe to be teaching and practicing the truth from God? I don't think Baha'is believe any of them have the truth, are teaching the truth, and are practicing the truth. Am I wrong?

 

[rational experiences]

The past just human history. Two humans. Human egotism.

A man an adult. Is a first man human. Then a father.

Who is a human theist scientist...as his story?

A son of a Father as a man and human. Adult.

Which makes all men wrong. If you cared to be honest.

A human man's consciousness is human and the man human by type. Men chose science life sacrifice. Confessed they had.

As a baby is innocent as compared to his adult man life.

So you can only ever be wrong. For having invented all theories science.

As in nature you don't own nor control any history of space or about space.

So we travel back consciously to position adult man who sacrificed life on earth by human choice. Gods sciences.

As he said all the greatest highest bodies in creation by theism gods.

Satan burning alight terms.

Now you are consciously involved as human man living. Light is that term. So you live in evil by terms the light. Which is not gods highest in science.

Ignored relative warned advice.

Now you theory about immaculate heavens as no light.

No such scientific term.

As God O earths one entity mass was historic alight as one origin burning mass.

In fact humans were told never theory any heavens status as O earth owned it.

O planet is the fixed position of a human man thinking. States no science is exact terms.

Asides from telling men the heavens owns no containment container so you can't hold manipulate or contain it.

An already human man taught directive.

All history what men of science caused for human lying is ignored by the men who still lie coerce to practice human science today.

Is the destroyer.

Father owned his children with mother naturally. Equal mutual.

If humans can't say I'm you're extended family we're equal. Then you all own a changed mind condition. Not conscious of your own being.

Is the exact fact we now all face.

Humans are national. As DNA is nation based. So humans grand parents elder in each tribe need to unite in a chosen venue. To begin to sort out every human misdemeanour we ever chose.

If an advocate says I'm needed then advocate for us wont you right now. And stop just talking about it.

And if your brother keeps arguing to take you away from your advocacy see it's exact human self destructive behaviour only and ignore him.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You really think Islam had the teachings and the beliefs that the whole world needed? Christians, Jews and all the people that believed in all the other religions should have accepted Islam?

Yes it did, but it was never destined to do so.

Regards Tony