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Featured The Value of Obedience

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Deeje, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Oh yes, the "wonderful" world of stereotyping Jews and their leaders. The above is just so pathetic.
     
  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find instead of clergy rules, biblically it is Jesus setting the rules. - John 13:34-35.
    Corrupted clergy even use the pulpit as a recruiting station so parents will sacrifice their young on the Altar of War.
    They equate sacrificing for country as being the same as sacrificing on the 'spiritual' Altar of God.

    I find ' caring for the poor ' (physically) is outlined for us in Jesus' illustration about the good neighborly Samaritan.
    We are to broaden out, or widen out in showing love to one in distress on a one-on-one basis as we can.
    In the BIGGER picture we are to care for the 'spiritual needs' of all as Jesus taught at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
    This is because letting others know about the good news of God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 is what will bring lasting relief and healing to all nations as mentioned at Revelation 22:2.

    So, foremost on our minds is telling others that Jesus is the good shepherd at the coming time of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
    This is because Jesus, Not clergy, as Shepherd will separate people at this coming ' time of separation ' on Earth.
     
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  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I don't get why you say stereotyping Jews.....
    Jesus went to the Jews, Jesus gave the Jews the very 'first' choice to join him in heavenly rule over Earth.
    History shows in the year 70 the Roman armies came against un-faithful (Not faithful) Jerusalem.
    The religious leaders (Not the Jews in general) were so corrupted that Jesus pronounced many ' woes ' against them and gave them the reasons why for those 'woes' as recorded in the 23rd chapter of Matthew if you care to read.
     
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  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find instead of a secular day (12/25), Jesus set up the day ( Nisan 14) as the day set aside for thanking God for his gift of Jesus, so there's the recognition and praise to his God and Jesus that Jesus died for us. - Luke 22:19.
    So, according to Jesus the only RED-letter calendar day for Christians is the Jewish Spring month of Nisan the 14th day.
     
    #44 URAVIP2ME, Nov 16, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
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  5. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    If you can't see it, then it's obvious what the problem is.
     
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Do you worship on the weekend? any other day of the week?

    Think about it.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I notice you did Not mention what the obvious is, care to elaborate _______
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    metis, I was hoping you would make a reply to the ^ above ^.
     
  9. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    When did the Jews determine that childbirth was an “occult practice”?

    Careful, we agree on something! :)

    Great, but what does that have to do with Jews or Christians?

    Are you claiming the US and Australian governments record our birthdays for the same reason? How about my employer? I would hate to think the “real reason” they wanted my birthday was to engage in ancient, God dishonoring astrological practices.


    Aaah…so a bar mitzah, bat mitzah, or upsherin are not based on cultural or social but pagan spiritual practices.

    Who knew? :rolleyes:


    Those who believed in the Messiah did:

    But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Luke 2:10

    This “good news” was the birth of Jesus.

    It was “good news” that caused “great joy for all the people” back then and it is “good news” that causes “great joy for all the people” right now.

    Jehovah Witnesses are one of the few religious denominations who glumly attempt to twist the joyful good news of Christ's birth into a “bad news” day.
     
  10. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    Well, I’m just as serious as you can be about Christmas.

    Of course, but if you’re going to point and shout “Pagan!” here and there, it’s best to make sure you’ve removed “pagan” from your own eye prior to removing it from others.

    Apparently the Watchtower eagerly followed suit, posting the names of false gods on their Kingdom Halls whilst vilifying "Christendom" for "pagan" practices.

    That’s simple enough. How about First month, Second month, or Third month fourth day? On your Kingdom Halls you can post “Services held First and Fifth day of every week at 7:00” or something similar.

    But this goes to my whole point. There are no "pagan practices" in Kingdom Halls unless it's inconvenient to do so.

    That’s good to hear. Neither do we, even on Christmas.


    Christians do not allow pagan practices to dictate what they can and cannot do on a particular day. In other words, if pagans walk across the street every Thursday we wouldn’t think about whether “true Christians” should walk across the street on Thursday. If they worship on Wednesday we do not have to reconsider whether we should worship on Wednesday. Likewise, if pagans celebrate a particular holiday it would not preclude us from celebrating something else on that particular day. We would only be engaging in trifle legalisms worthy of the Pharisees.

    Christians are not bound by Satan but have their freedom in Christ (Galatians 5:1, 2 Corinthians 3:17, John 8:32). Jehovah Witnesses, by their actions, show the converse.

    Absolutely! It’s part and parcel of the "good news" mentioned in Luke 2:10 and one which Christians have carried to the entire world.

    As the picture in post 29 shows, Kingdom Halls follow the same “appalling example”.

    As for your assertion that you didn’t invent the calendar, it is also true Christians didn’t invent the feast of Saturn. That didn’t stop Witnesses from claiming Christians were celebrating Saturn, so I see nothing to prevent a claim that you’re celebrating Thor.

    As they say, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
     
  11. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    Then you’re not voting for Jehovah’s Kingdom by writing in “Jehovah”,

    Is it your conscience that prevents you from voting for Jehovah or is it the Watchtower? I can't find a "Don't vote for Jehovah" verse in my bible.

    Either way it’s apparent Satan’s “Don’t vote for Jehovah!” campaign is just as effective in your neck of the woods as it is here.

    Where did Jesus tell his disciples to vote with their feet…just not anywhere near a voting booth?

    Do you realize that every time someone tallies a vote with “Jehovah” on it, it’s a “witness to the nations”?

    Apparently there aren't that many “false Christians” in the United States as I don’t recall Satan winning an election or receiving much in the way of votes.

    However I agree Satan was very successful at keeping Jehovah Witnesses from voting for Jehovah. I’m sure Satan and the Watchtower would agree it’s a bad idea. Sort of like the candidate who organizes one of the largest door to door campaign in history, knocking on doors and asking folk to support their candidate, and when election time comes they tell them to "vote with your feet" by staying home. I can't conceive of any campaign like this, and if your candidate is Jehovah as you claim, why wouldn't you vote for Him???

    There is nothing in scripture that says you can’t vote for Jehovah or His kingdom at a voting booth. In fact, the message would seem quite the opposite…vote for Him whenever and wherever you can. So if "No part of the world" doesn't prevent you from witnessing at my front door, then "No part of the world" shouldn't prevent you from witnessing in a voting booth. Can you kindly explain how voting booths became "part of the world" whereas front doors, bus stations, street corners, laundromats and the like did not?

    Unfortunately the Watchtower’s inconsistent rationale just doesn’t make any sense.
     
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  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I agree with you on that.
     
  13. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Oh my goodness metis.....I don't know where to start...

    IMO, all of your responses are based on emotional knee jerks, not Biblical facts. It is easy to see why a "theological" education does not prepare one for Bible debates. You seem to have a good knowledge of church doctrines but very little knowledge of scripture...both Jewish and Christian.

    "Ethics"? I have showed you examples of "community responsibility" in Israel's history but apparently you choose to ignore them. When individuals or leaders disobeyed their God, he withdrew his spirit from the collective until the issue was settled and the offenders were punished. What kind of morality is that? The kind that God has demonstrated in the Hebrew Scriptures on many occasions. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with them.
    You do understand that these responses condemn the God you are supposed to be defending....you accuse him of being unethical and immoral....

    So recounting the faults of Israel as recorded in their own scripture is anti-Semitic? Jesus constantly reminded his nation of their accountability, but they chose to ignore him. The majority chose to stick with their comfortable old religious system, not believing that their leaders would lead them away from true worship...but Bible history reveals that this is what they had always done.

    When the people were before Pilate who was presenting their "king" to them, they said "we have no king but Caesar". Then, in deciding who should be released, they chose a common criminal to be spared, declaring that the blood of Jesus could comfortably rest upon their head and also upon the heads of their children. (Matthew 27:25) They got their wish. Is that anti-Semitism?

    Have you created your own version of God, metis? Jesus roundly condemned all the sects of Judaism that were teaching false ideas. Do you honestly think that God is unloving by removing those who continue in a course of wilful disobedience? How many times were prophets sent to correct God's nation......only to have them ignore the counsel and silence the messenger. It was a pattern of rebellion with them as Jesus said. (Matthew 23:37-39)
    Is that anti-Semitic? It's the plain truth? Be realistic...please. Denial just make you seem completely uninformed.

    Jesus himself said that for his disciples, two Commandments applied...... "to love God with one's whole heart, mind and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves"..... he said that this was the foundation of the whole law. The principles of the law would always apply, but the letter of the law would not. The "new covenant" no longer required a written law. (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

    Jesus did not support two conflicting systems of religion. He made his disciples choose. We have similar choices to make.

    I am a Christian metis. In that I lose my national identity. I am a citizen of God's kingdom and I have no desire for dual citizenship. For Christians this is not possible. Being no part of the world's rulership means not supporting its ambitions or agendas. This is what divides people, yet Christians are part of one family, regardless of what piece of dirt they occupy. They cannot be divided by anything....not by beliefs, practices or political loyalties.

    If you knew the scriptures, you wouldn't need to ask that question.
    The people wanted a visible king so that they could be like the nations around them. They were basically saying that they didn't want Jehovah to be their invisible king any longer. Read 1 Samuel ch 8 and tell me why God said to fulfill their demand.

    Most people living under a democracy would agree, but as a system, it never really fulfills the will of the people. It might be better than other forms of government systems that people have tried, but none have achieved success in avoiding corruption or in serving the needs of the majority. Surely you don't assume honesty in any human government.....and you must see the failures of governments to support their most vulnerable citizens.

    Tell that to the God who has had all his activities recorded for our benefit. You think he was unjust in destroying a whole world of mankind in the flood of Noah's day? But he saved the whole city of Nineveh after Jonah preached to them. It was an incredibly wicked city. Was God a "schizophrenic and genocidal maniac" or was there a sound reason for his actions? Do you know God at all?

    When God sentenced his nation to wander in the wilderness, was it because all of them were guilty of offences, or were the whole nation sentenced because of the offences of some rebellious older ones. 40 years would have seen those older offenders die off in the wilderness, so that a newer generation under the leadership of Moses (and Joshua after him) would inherit the Promised Land.

    It appears to me that people like yourself reinvent God to suit their own sensibilities. God is who he is, and it is up to us to support his teachings without the need to modify his personality to suit our own.
     
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  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The Law per Jeremiah 31:31-34 was to be written on their hearts. "on their hearts I will write it" You have a tendency to rewrite Scripture to fit your own viewpoint. I think that path leads to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13). You may fool yourself, but in the end, it may make you feel better for the short term, but the final destination is not looking good.
     
  15. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    You keep the sabbath, then? Are you Jewish?

    Are you circumcised? Because that’s as much of the Law as keeping the sabbath is.

    But, you know, you don’t have to be. — Acts of the Apostles 15.
     
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  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Any denomination or religion that ignores well-established history and science must logically be basically bogus, so no amount of song & dance, like with the above, changes the simple fact that the JW fantasies are simply about as real as the stories found in "Grimm's Fairy Tales".

    Besides that, you don't even operate out of basic logic as you're so utterly inconsistent. To say that what I covered in my last post were "emotional knee jerks" is simply another product of your fiction and dishonesty as you have no idea of what my mood was. And then you claim to believe in the Bible, but you actually pick & choose what to believe in based on what your JW teachers have brainwashed you to believe.

    And then, instead of directly dealing with a point in response, you ramble and ramble and ramble some more instead of directly dealing with the point. Maybe instead of trying to impress people, maybe just get to the point.

    In closing, as I have so often had to point out to you, Jesus said to "judge ye not", but as with your post above, you simply have no desire to follow what Jesus taught on that. Nor do you have any knowledge or desire to actually study Church history or known science, instead much preferring to blindly believe in the fairly tales your leaders have taught you.

    Until you find a church that teaches honesty and the need for study, you will just be led around by the nose while paying the JW leadership to lie and distort. Fortunately, most denominations don't teach their flock to ignore basic science and basic Christian history, so you might decide some day to maybe check some of them out. When you left the Anglican church and joined the JW's, you left a respectable church and joined a cult that's long been bent on being holier-than-Thou in a very arrogant, highly judgmental, and very disturbing way. Instead of teaching love and cooperation, they teach division and isolation. Instead of teaching the value of objective study, they brainwash their flock and teach them not to ever go to another church's service or even read their literature. I can go to a JW funeral, and I have, but you can't go to a funeral in another church.

    That's called "brainwashing", Deeje.
     
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  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't want to put too much weight on your foundational Acts, written by some unknown author, who was probably an associate of the false prophet Paul. By the way, do you abstain from "fornication", from "blood", such as transfusions, and things contaminated by idols (Acts 15:20)? 1 Corinthians 8: 7However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.

    And by the way, Act 15:16-18 misquotes Amos 9:11-12. It is about Jacob coming into possession the "remnant of Edom and all the nations who are called by my name". That does not happen until the "awesome day of the LORD", which is per (Joel 2:31-32) and Matthew 24:21, the "great tribulation". The "house of Israel" and the "house of Ephraim" have yet to be reunited and reestablished on the land "I gave to Jacob" (Ezekiel 37:15-25). The nations/Gentiles do not come under submission until the "Word of God" puts them there by means of the "rod of iron" (Revelation 19:15).

    Amos 9: 11“In that day I will raise up the fallen booth of David,
    And wall up its breaches;
    I will also raise up its ruins
    And rebuild it as in the days of old;
    12That they may possess the remnant of Edom
    And all the nations who are called by My name,”
    Declares the LORD who does this.
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    There is a special meaning for the 25th of December, for it is the birthdate of Sol Invictus, the god of Constantine. the sun god, representing the "dragon" (Revelation 13:4), who gave his authority to the beast, in that case, the Roman emperor, Caesar and Augustus Caesar. When one worships the beast, they worship the "dragon" and vice a versa (Revelation 13:4). Those that do, remain in the grave another 1000 years (Revelation 20:4-5).
     
  19. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The failure to support the most vulnerable citizens falls on their neighbors, not government. Government will not be put on the right or left hand of the "king" (Matthew 25:33-34). The government does not fulfill the will of the people because generally only less than 50% even bother to vote. Most of the ones that vote, have had their votes bought by either a new cell phone (circus), or by a loaf of bread. Non voters have no standing to complain about the results. They only support the results by paying taxes. Now if they were poor, they would not be required to pay federal or state taxes. Maybe you should sell your possessions and give to the poor, and follow me (Matthew 19:21).
     
  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    That is the kettle calling the pot black. My pre ecumenical council nuns taught that I couldn't go into a Protestant church, and that my protestant friends were going to hell. The Catholic Inquisition burned people alive who did not toe their line, and tossed the Jews out of the country if they wouldn't convert. The pope gave permission to the Conquistadors to kill and make slaves of those who would not convert to their way of thinking. The JWs may have their issues, but they didn't burn people alive. Like the false prophet Paul, they simply turn them over to Satan.
     
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