The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[Prophet]

Can you cite evidence for this? And whatever you do, don't confuse the effects of war with acts of genocide.

I don't think I confuse war with genocide. Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't the Torah claim that God said to put to death women and children (and livestock) from at least a few defeated countries? Is that war or genocide?

Also, can you provide evidence for this: "And Jewish soldiers DID think their superiors were Gods?"?

I was attempting to show CMike the absurdness of his position. It is not a position I hold.

 

[metis]

I don't think I confuse war with genocide. Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't the Torah claim that God said to put to death women and children (and livestock) from at least a few defeated countries? Is that war or genocide?

Yes, it's in there alright, not that I believe it, but...

Actually I was thinking in terms of modern day Israel with your post, so sorry to misinterpret what you said.

 

[Prophet]

Yes, it's in there alright, not that I believe it, but...

Actually I was thinking in terms of modern day Israel with your post, so sorry to misinterpret what you said.

What don't you believe? That the genocide spoken of happened or that it was ordered by God?

 

[metis]

What don't you believe? That the genocide spoken of happened or that it was ordered by God?

I am not a literalist, nor do I believe the scriptures are inerrant.

 

[Brickjectivity]

You don't appear to patronize me, though you showed me minimal respect when you accused me of arguing dishonestly in my refusal to accept a fundamentalist teaching you wanted to pound down my throat baselessly. It is Jews you patronize in the same way all well-meaning liberal nitwits talk down to mentally retarded people. You think you show them respect by holding them to lower standards, but where I come from, this isn't respect.

I'm still enjoying the conversation. We were arguing about Christianity's point of view of Judaism. You suddenly put everything into a secular context, perhaps so that you could derail the conversation. You said you were getting 'Bored'. In addition you said that you somehow knew some 'Hidden position' that I held. How am I expected to account for what you imagine is my hidden position?

When baseless accusations and insults have been made against me by you and others, I don't recall complaining too much--I'm happy to demonstrate that they amount to nothing but slander by demonstrating said baselessness. You identified earlier that false religions can't take an insult--how about false individuals? Do they handle insult well? Objectively, how well do you think you are handling insult?

I still demand a retraction, because you tried to drive a wedge between me and other posters here. It was a pretty slick debate tactic, just sliding under the rules. I'm not insulted though. I'm still talking to you, but I still think you're naive to attribute hate to you-know-whom. That seems to be something that has definitely annoyed you.

Furthermore, You complain that I argue without basis, in an argument that is, itself, without basis. Welcome to the deep end of the pool, where if you make an assertion without support it is going to be exposed.

You entered into a discussion that was about Christianity and/or Judaism. Then you changed the basis in your own mind. It was never a discussion about secular opinions. My position is this: that Christians are vulnerable in any conversation about prophesies in the Bible, that defending Jesus from criticism is itself both ridiculous and counterproductive and that Christians are discouraged by Jesus from criticizing the Holy Spirit, which the Law of Moses is a dispensation of (according to Christianity). My end game is to help, someday, all of the Christians who are giving money to charlatan healers, neglecting responsibilities to take care of themselves, and just generally being harmed by their lack of study. That position has never been hidden, and whether I think Judaism is real or not has no bearing on it.

 

[CMike]

I don't think I confuse war with genocide. Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't the Torah claim that God said to put to death women and children (and livestock) from at least a few defeated countries? Is that war or genocide?



I was attempting to show CMike the absurdness of his position. It is not a position I hold.

I have great comfort that we don't hold the same positions.

As I stated the whole nation was evil.

Let me add to it. There was also Sodom and Gamorah. Also, G-D destroyed almost everything in the world during the flood at Noah's time.

Amalek earned special privledges.

 

[CMike]

And Jewish soldiers DID think their superiors were Gods? Is your point that you think Jews are dumber or more gullible than Germans?

The Nazi party as a whole, and particularly the SS, were deeply indoctrinated, religious people who believed their cause was just. Their justification for the extermination of the Jewish race was driven by religious devotion to insane beliefs. The Jews were no different when they were able to take power. Israel exterminated people with the same thoughtless devotion "to God".

:sarcastic

Oy vey.

The jews didn't actually do anything.

The Amalekites attacked the jews for the intention exterminating them just like the Nazis tried. They lost.

The Amalekites tried to destroy the jews simply because they were jews just like the Nazis.

So yes there are comparisions between the Amalekites and the Nazis, you just have the wrong people that you are comparting to.

 

[Prophet]

I'm still enjoying the conversation. We were arguing about Christianity's point of view of Judaism. You suddenly put everything into a secular context, perhaps so that you could derail the conversation. You said you were getting 'Bored'. In addition you said that you somehow knew some 'Hidden position' that I held. How am I expected to account for what you imagine is my hidden position?

I still demand a retraction, because you tried to drive a wedge between me and other posters here. It was a pretty slick debate tactic, just sliding under the rules. I'm not insulted though. I'm still talking to you, but I still think you're naive to attribute hate to you-know-whom. That seems to be something that has definitely annoyed you.

I confess annoyance with stupidity on a regular basis, but you'll have to forgive me if I believe your enjoyment of this conversation is feigned. If I were demonstrated to be so impotent in debate that I must demand retraction of an opponent's claims in lieu of my ability to demonstrate said claims' falsity, like you, I'd feel terribly insecure.

I made a very simple case which would require a similarly simple debunking. You objected to my insensitive attacks on Moses, attacks you can be demonstrated to excuse when levied upon Jesus. When I inquired about your rationale for this moving standard, you said that false religions can't handle insult while true religions can. From this, I can deduce that you believe Judaism is a false religion, you believe Christianity is a true religion, and that this wedge you've invented is a product of your own superiority.

Furthermore, this superiority you imagine doesn't even have a basis in reality. When I questioned your interpretation of Jesus' teaching of that we should not question the law, you started making irrelevant defenses, like saying that the Law of Moses was different in some vague way which conveniently can't be debated. You don't want Jesus' teachings questioned either where you don't feel it to benefit your world view--that's biased. Piling on, if Mosaic Law is so much different, why are the gospels are absolutely full of Jesus questioning unjust law? Your position reduces to "because Jesus told me so".

You entered into a discussion that was about Christianity and/or Judaism. Then you changed the basis in your own mind. It was never a discussion about secular opinions. My position is this: that Christians are vulnerable in any conversation about prophesies in the Bible, that defending Jesus from criticism is itself both ridiculous and counterproductive and that Christians are discouraged by Jesus from criticizing the Holy Spirit, which the Law of Moses is a dispensation of (according to Christianity). My end game is to help, someday, all of the Christians who are giving money to charlatan healers, neglecting responsibilities to take care of themselves, and just generally being harmed by their lack of study. That position has never been hidden, and whether I think Judaism is real or not has no bearing on it.

Do you really think that? Because when I called your interpretation of Jesus message into question you told me:

You are in a discussion about Christianity, so Jesus isn't a name drop, and you know it. How does Kung Fu teach anything but fighting? There's your analogue. Jesus says Moses laws are special, so in Christianity they are.

From where I'm sitting, your religion is at least as false as theirs.

 

[Prophet]

I have great comfort that we don't hold the same positions.

As I stated the whole nation was evil.

Let me add to it. There was also Sodom and Gamorah. Also, G-D destroyed almost everything in the world during the flood at Noah's time.

Amalek earned special privledges.

As Nazi Germany stated, the whole Jewish race was evil. That's how they got many of their people who were otherwise right acting individuals to commit acts of genocide. Moses employed the same strategy of labeling his enemies as evil to relieve his people of their natural empathic drive.

Propoganda 101

 

[Brickjectivity]

I confess annoyance with stupidity on a regular basis, but you'll have to forgive me if I believe your enjoyment of this conversation is feigned. If I were demonstrated to be so impotent in debate that I must demand retraction of an opponent's claims in lieu of my ability to demonstrate said claims' falsity, like you, I'd feel terribly insecure.

So sorry to draw you into the cesspool of my own narcissism.

I made a very simple case which would require a similarly simple debunking. You objected to my insensitive attacks on Moses, attacks you can be demonstrated to excuse when levied upon Jesus. When I inquired about your rationale for this moving standard, you said that false religions can't handle insult while true religions can. From this, I can deduce that you believe Judaism is a false religion, you believe Christianity is a true religion, and that this wedge you've invented is a product of your own superiority.

I don't object to you not liking Moses. (Its cuter if you say 'Moshe'.) You said I wasn't being tough enough on Jews and too hard on Christians, like I should be sending out chocolates or something. I didn't say what you say that I said. I said that what I say is that saying anything against any Baal should not be condemned, because if that Baal is really a Baal at all it can defend itself. If I'm not attacking Judaism, maybe its because I'm not worried about Jews and think they can take care of themselves. You cannot deduce anything about what I believe, and really it is not polite to keep trying. I'm still waiting for you to admit that I am allowed to believe something other than what you think I believe.

Furthermore, this superiority you imagine doesn't even have a basis in reality. When I questioned your interpretation of Jesus' teaching of that we should not question the law, you started making irrelevant defenses, like saying that the Law of Moses was different in some vague way which conveniently can't be debated. You don't want Jesus' teachings questioned either where you don't feel it to benefit your world view--that's biased. Piling on, if Mosaic Law is so much different, why are the gospels are absolutely full of Jesus questioning unjust law? Your position reduces to "because Jesus told me so".

I've got nothing against debating the law of Moses, but its schizophrenic to do in a Christian context. In a conversation about Christianity you said that references to Jesus were merely namedrops. I mean, come on, if you can't refer to Jesus in a conversation about Christianity then what the hell? I told you that it is counterproductive to defend Jesus against criticism. Either he can defend himself or he can't. Why does it matter to you what I believe? It only matters if you are trying to manipulate me. Good luck with that.

Do you really think that? Because when I called your interpretation of Jesus message into question you told me:
From where I'm sitting, your religion is at least as false as theirs.

Again you want to make this about what I believe and probe what I believe. Don't you have your own beliefs?

 

[Prophet]

So sorry to draw you into the cesspool of my own narcissism.

I don't object to you not liking Moses. (Its cuter if you say 'Moshe'.) You said I wasn't being tough enough on Jews and too hard on Christians, like I should be sending out chocolates or something. I didn't say what you say that I said. I said that what I say is that saying anything against any Baal should not be condemned, because if that Baal is really a Baal at all it can defend itself. If I'm not attacking Judaism, maybe its because I'm not worried about Jews and think they can take care of themselves. You cannot deduce anything about what I believe, and really it is not polite to keep trying. I'm still waiting for you to admit that I am allowed to believe something other than what you think I believe.

My beliefs with regard to how hard we should be on Christianity and Judaism were never were stated. However, by the way I talk, I think it can be inferred that I actually believe you are not being tough enough with regard to EITHER religion. Now, that is just an opinion based upon my own tendencies, not a viewpoint that I'd defend, and I was willing to give Moses a pass.

The viewpoint that I defend is that you demonstrably argue for judging these religions by two standards, the Christian one being much higher. When I asked why, you said false religions can't take an insult. What else can one infer from this except you think Judaism is a false religion? I have such a simple case that it makes itself.

I've got nothing against debating the law of Moses, but its schizophrenic to do in a Christian context. In a conversation about Christianity you said that references to Jesus were merely namedrops. I mean, come on, if you can't refer to Jesus in a conversation about Christianity then what the hell? I told you that it is counterproductive to defend Jesus against criticism. Either he can defend himself or he can't. Why does it matter to you what I believe? It only matters if you are trying to manipulate me. Good luck with that.

This Christian context argument is a figment of your imagination. Perhaps you alone are debating about what Christianity comprises (not that it matters), but the conversation I'm at least attempting to have with you and others here is about which views are valid and which are invalid. I sincerely doubt this conversation is about Christianity for the Jews here.

I believe you are overemphasizing the "Jew friendly" elements of what you believe to be Jesus' message, elements you have no reasonable backing for, and you're defending them against me with "Jesus told me so" as if your interpretation of the Bible was handed down from heaven by God himself to stifle debate, all to make you a less threatening proselytizer to Jews.

Again you want to make this about what I believe and probe what I believe. Don't you have your own beliefs?

I'm touched by your concern, but I assure you that I'll be just fine are when the tables are turned.

 

[CMike]

As Nazi Germany stated, the whole Jewish race was evil. That's how they got many of their people who were otherwise right acting individuals to commit acts of genocide. Moses employed the same strategy of labeling his enemies as evil to relieve his people of their natural empathic drive.

Propoganda 101

Amalekites actually did stuff that were evil.

They attacked the jews right after they got out of Egypt for the purpose of destroying them. They hated jews because they were jews.

The jews in Germany did not attack non jews for the purpose of killing them.

Good grief. This isn't that difficult to understand.

 

[Porque77]

The commandments of G-D are in the Torah.

The only and true Torá is the Torá of the Gospel.

Jesus, falsely acted like he was god, and wrote his own commandments.

Jesus did not acted falsely. He was God and showed it to his disciples with many miracles.

The apostles gave their lifes for all what they saw and heard from Jesus Christ.

The commandments that Jesus Christ taught were the true commandments of God.

And it's rather rediculous that you quote Isaiah, a jewish prophet, take his words out of context, and try to use them to attack what is in the Torah.

The prophets are one thing y the laws are other thing very different. Jesus Christ remembered to the prophets and the prophets prophesied the coming of Jesus Christ.

The Torah, the five books of Moses, are far more important than prophets.

Moses and the prophets talked about Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God, and the Gospel's Law is the true God's Law.

Moses talked about Jesus Christ and the prophets too. The scriptures says so:

"The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him". (Deuteronomy 18:15-19)

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this". (Isaiah 9:6-7)

 

[Brickjectivity]

The viewpoint that I defend is that you demonstrably argue for judging these religions by two standards, the Christian one being much higher. When I asked why, you said false religions can't take an insult. What else can one infer from this except you think Judaism is a false religion? I have such a simple case that it makes itself.

In fact I did not proceed to judge either religion at all nor did I suggest doing so. Additionally what I said was that Jesus said not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit of which the law was a dispensation. Therefore Christians should not condemn the Law of Moses. You insisted this was 'Name dropping' Jesus. I was obviously commenting about the Christian attitude towards Moses Laws -- a huge deal in this thread and married to the opening topic.

My beliefs with regard to how hard we should be on Christianity and Judaism were never were stated.

What you have stated continually is that you think you can read my mind and want to tell me what is in it. You are trying to kill me by feeding my ego until it explodes with shards of it tearing through my heart and various organs, with lots of blood everywhere. Its like you want to flatter me to death with all of the attention you've given me. What have I done to deserve such ill favour?

This Christian context argument is a figment of your imagination. Perhaps you alone are debating about what Christianity comprises (not that it matters), but the conversation I'm at least attempting to have with you and others here is about which views are valid and which are invalid. I sincerely doubt this conversation is about Christianity for the Jews here.

I believe you are overemphasizing the "Jew friendly" elements of what you believe to be Jesus' message, elements you have no reasonable backing for, and you're defending them against me with "Jesus told me so" as if your interpretation of the Bible was handed down from heaven by God himself to stifle debate, all to make you a less threatening proselytizer to Jews.

Do you mind if I call you "Inspector Gadget?" There is this little hammer that keeps popping out of your hat when I try to be nice. I believe you are overestimating my abilities. How am I overemphasizing 'Jew friendly' items? Should there be equal time where I present Jew hating things?

Also, I never said that Jesus told me anything. Jesus told Christians not to blaspheme. Therefore Porque77 should not say that the law has been changed, because Porque77 is Christian. Its straight up, and it causes problems for Christians when they avoid studying the law. Its a huge cultural loss. Just because you don't value it you are somehow not grasping that concept. It is a part of the Christian education or was.

I'm touched by your concern, but I assure you that I'll be just fine are when the tables are turned.

And I am bloated with pride because of your close curiosity. Who knew that I was such a genius that I could actively undermine/bolster Judaism, bolster/undermine Christianity and not know it myself?

 

[Prophet]

Amalekites actually did stuff that were evil.

They attacked the jews right after they got out of Egypt for the purpose of destroying them. They hated jews because they were jews.

The jews in Germany did not attack non jews for the purpose of killing them.

Good grief. This isn't that difficult to understand.

Tell me about the atrocities committed by Amalekite babies.

 

[Prophet]

In fact I did not proceed to judge either religion at all nor did I suggest doing so. Additionally what I said was that Jesus said not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit of which the law was a dispensation. Therefore Christians should not condemn the Law of Moses. You insisted this was 'Name dropping' Jesus. I was obviously commenting about the Christian attitude towards Moses Laws -- a huge deal in this thread and married to the opening topic.

Any element of religion which raises charges like blasphemy or heresy cannot deal with insult or controversy. These are charges you raise when your religion is so insecure it cannot deal with disagreement rationally and instead must rest on authority.

I feel it is my responsibility to call into question any story in which an enlightened teacher is attributed with a teaching that stifles debate and assumes the Bible as you interpret it was handed down from the heavens by God. You have but one questionable interpretation of one questionable verse going up against pages and pages of Jesus doing exactly what you say he forbids.

What you have stated continually is that you think you can read my mind and want to tell me what is in it. You are trying to kill me by feeding my ego until it explodes with shards of it tearing through my heart and various organs, with lots of blood everywhere. Its like you want to flatter me to death with all of the attention you've given me. What have I done to deserve such ill favour?

You called me dishonest for not accepting your fundamentalist tenet of Christianity in a debate tactic that was dishonest in itself. I don't play nice with hypocrites.

Do you mind if I call you "Inspector Gadget?" There is this little hammer that keeps popping out of your hat when I try to be nice. I believe you are overestimating my abilities. How am I overemphasizing 'Jew friendly' items? Should there be equal time where I present Jew hating things?

Also, I never said that Jesus told me anything. Jesus told Christians not to blaspheme. Therefore Porque77 should not say that the law has been changed, because Porque77 is Christian. Its straight up, and it causes problems for Christians when they avoid studying the law. Its a huge cultural loss. Just because you don't value it you are somehow not grasping that concept. It is a part of the Christian education or was

You're trying to mischaracterize Jesus into a law abiding citizen when he had a ministry marked by civil disobedience. If your depiction of Porque77's worldview is correct, his premise is correct and his conclusion that we should avoid Torah study is moronic. Even if the Torah is completely wrong, it should still be studied for the context and knowledge of culture. I've already debated you about supposed added benefits to Torah study which you aggrandized to a ridiculous extent, claiming it will cure social ills with no support.

And I am bloated with pride because of your close curiosity. Who knew that I was such a genius that I could actively undermine/bolster Judaism, bolster/undermine Christianity and not know it myself?

Admission that you believe Judaism to be a false religion unable to stand in the face of harsh cross-examination, disagreement, blasphemy, heresy, or what have you would make the strategy that I outlined fail. You throw around accusations of dishonesty pretty cavalierly. And now you're not the only one accusing. Play dumb all you want.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Any element of religion which raises charges like blasphemy or heresy cannot deal with insult or controversy. These are charges you raise when your religion is so insecure it cannot deal with disagreement rationally and instead must rest on authority.

I feel it is my responsibility to call into question any story in which an enlightened teacher is attributed with a teaching that stifles debate and assumes the Bible as you interpret it was handed down from the heavens by God. You have but one questionable interpretation of one questionable verse going up against pages and pages of Jesus doing exactly what you say he forbids.

I think you are getting lost in your own typos. The thread isn't about the viability of Christianity or whether it is a secure religion or insecure. Its about Christian attitudes towards the law of Moses, whether the 'Scribes changed it' and Jesus point of view is applicable. You don't like that Jesus said not to blaspheme, but that doesn't really have anything to do with this thread.

You called me dishonest for not accepting your fundamentalist tenet of Christianity in a debate tactic that was dishonest in itself. I don't play nice with hypocrites.

I said you should stop playing mind reader and telling me what you think I believe and falsely representing me, too. I didn't conclude that you were dishonest, and you inferred that it meant you were dishonest. Maybe you were feeling guilty.

You're trying to mischaracterize Jesus into a law abiding citizen when he had a ministry marked by civil disobedience. If your depiction of Porque77's worldview is correct, his premise is correct and his conclusion that we should avoid Torah study is moronic. Even if the Torah is completely wrong, it should still be studied for the context and knowledge of culture. I've already debated you about supposed added benefits to Torah study which you aggrandized to a ridiculous extent, claiming it will cure social ills with no support.

Now finally you bring up an interesting objection. So Jesus was civilly disobedient? Fine, but that's no reason for Christians to think that they don't need to study.

Admission that you believe Judaism to be a false religion unable to stand in the face of harsh cross-examination, disagreement, blasphemy, heresy, or what have you would make the strategy that I outlined fail. You throw around accusations of dishonesty pretty cavalierly. And now you're not the only one accusing. Play dumb all you want.

You accuse me of being someone that you've made up in your head and you again falsely represent me. I have made no such admission.

 

[Prophet]

I think you are getting lost in your own typos. The thread isn't about the viability of Christianity or whether it is a secure religion or insecure. Its about Christian attitudes towards the law of Moses, whether the 'Scribes changed it' and Jesus point of view is applicable. You don't like that Jesus said not to blaspheme, but that doesn't really have anything to do with this thread.

You're presenting a weaker form of my argument in order to defeat it. You are attempting to say that I disqualify your teaching on basis that I merely don't like it. I disqualified it on demonstrably more:

1) Jesus entire ministry was spent challenging misapplication of Mosaic Law, directly contradicting this "teaching".

2) The entire concept of blasphemy is fundamentalist. It is merely religious speak for disagreement. Making disagreement a crime is an abuse of power.

3) The process that gave us the canonized Bible was highly contentious; it is naive to believe that Jesus said every word that was attributed to him. If beings are so gullible as to accept a statement on basis that it is attributed to a famous name, there would be much to gain by falsely attributing one's own statements to Jesus.

I said you should stop playing mind reader and telling me what you think I believe and falsely representing me, too. I didn't conclude that you were dishonest, and you inferred that it meant you were dishonest. Maybe you were feeling guilty.

Well, let's quote you actually:

You are in a discussion about Christianity, so Jesus isn't a name drop, and you know it. How does Kung Fu teach anything but fighting? There's your analogue. Jesus says Moses laws are special, so in Christianity they are.

And I know it?!

You are putting all Christians in a small box with your blanket judgements about Christianity. Imagine how metis would feel if you demanded that she recant either her distaste for genocide, or her identity as a true or observant Jew, "because Moses said". This is exactly how I feel about you pushing your unsupportable drivel on "all true Christians". I AM a Christian. You don't get to make me not a Christian because I don't agree with you no matter how many times you say "because Jesus said".

You're the one who read my mind and somehow figured out, against everything that I was saying, that I was being purposefully intellectually dishonest by not blindly accepting teachings you attribute to Jesus. Keep on reading my mind wrong and objecting when I read yours right back to you, hypocrite.

Now finally you bring up an interesting objection. So Jesus was civilly disobedient? Fine, but that's no reason for Christians to think that they don't need to study.

Finally? I brought up Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, MLK, and Jesus when you disregarded this point last time.

 

[Brickjectivity]

You're presenting a weaker form of my argument in order to defeat it. You are attempting to say that I disqualify your teaching on basis that I merely don't like it. I disqualified it on demonstrably more:

#1 is not really well established, and Jesus was not focused on correcting the misapplication of things depending upon your point of view. Its not an open shut case like you present. #2 Blasphemy doesn't require fundamentalism in my opinion. #3 Ok, so you don't think that Jesus believed Moses law was sealed by that time. It actually doesn't leave much room for discussion, since the thread is predicated upon the assumption that Moses laws were sealed in Jesus eyes. That is Porque77's entire plaint against the people he calls 'Scribes', that they altered laws. Are you arguing that the threat is moot?

And I know it?!

Semantics. In a discussion about Jesus, 'Jesus' can't be a name drop. You were just playing with me there.

I brought up Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, MLK, and Jesus when you disregarded this point last time.

Its easy to overlook things or make mistakes in such a long discussion.

 

[Porque77]

The only and true Torá is the Torá of the Gospel.

Jesus did not acted falsely. He was God and showed it to his disciples with many miracles.

The apostles gave their lifes for all what they saw and heard from Jesus Christ.

The commandments that Jesus Christ taught were the true commandments of God.

The prophets are one thing y the laws are other thing very different. Jesus Christ remembered to the prophets and the prophets prophesied the coming of Jesus Christ.

Moses and the prophets talked about Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God, and the Gospel's Law is the true God's Law.

Moses talked about Jesus Christ and the prophets too. The scriptures says so:

"The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him". (Deuteronomy 18:15-19)

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this". (Isaiah 9:6-7)