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The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Porque77, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Porque77

    Porque77 The Gospel is God's Law

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    Dear friends, I have studied the writings of the prophets, and I found several quotes that make me think what happened to God's Law.


    The writings of the prophets tell us that God's law was changed.


    The prophets tell us that the scribes had changed the God's Law

    The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

    "... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8: 7-9).

    "Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

    "And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

    "He says, therefore, the Lord: Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

    And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

    "Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
    This people honors me with their lips;
    But their heart is far from me.
    But in vain they do worship me,
    Teaching for doctrines commandments of men"
    (Matthew 15.7-9


    Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. The Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.
     
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  2. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    That's rather silly since all Jewish law comes from the 5 Books of Moses from G-d

    Jewish prophets only prophesied they didn't change or alter Jewish law.

    Since Jewish law comes from G-d, Jesus had no authority to change it.
     
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  3. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Which of the Torah commandments do you think he was referring to that made the final cut here?
     
  4. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    What Jesus is referring to is more or less along the Lines of the Talmudic and Pharisaic traditions that aren't actually in the text, and this was likely the case in Isaiah's time.

    Maybe if you actually read it you'd catch that.
     
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  5. Porque77

    Porque77 The Gospel is God's Law

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    I, examining the Gospel, I have seen that Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament. The Gospel says:

    "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. Nevertheless I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of prostitution, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced, commits adultery" (Matthew 5:...)


    "Again you have heard that it was said by them of old not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. Nevertheless I tell you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for is the footstool of his feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because you can not do a single white or black hair. But let your ' Yes, yes, no, no, because what is more than these cometh of evil" (Matthew 5:...)

    The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") WAS ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

    "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

    "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.... " (Matthew 5...)

    The Jews, often beheaded or hanged his enemies, and not only to them, but then, as says the laws of the Old Testament, entered the conquered peoples and in many cases children and women were slaughtered... Jesus Christ commands us to love our enemies.


    Other Old Testament laws abolished by Jesus Christ:

    "If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be dead". (Leviticus 20: 10)

    "And the daughter of any priest, if she fornicate, dishonor his father; she shall be burnt with fire" (Leviticus 21: 9


    That Is not what Jesus did with the adulterous woman in the Gospel Example:

    "And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.

    But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life". (Juan 8: 3-12)

    ABOUT THE SHABBAT'S LAW OF THE OLD TESTAMENT

    Says the Old Testament:

    "And while the children of Israel in the wilderness , they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and put him in prison, because was not declared what should be done to him. and the Lord said to Moses: man dies, all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp. congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him, and died, as the LORD commanded Moses" (Numbers 15: 32-36)

    That's not what Jesus commanded us:

    "At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did when he and those with him were hungry, how he entered the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful to eat neither he nor those who were with him, but only for the priests ? or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? for I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)


    "Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
    9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
    10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
    11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.........

    16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
    17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
    18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. "
    (John 5: 8-18)
     
  6. Porque77

    Porque77 The Gospel is God's Law

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    Well, that's what you say. But Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life". These words tell us clearly that Jesus Christ is God. Then, He had all authority.

    I do not see that Jesus Christ came to change the law of God. What I see is that Jesus Christ came to show us the true Law of God.
     
  7. Porque77

    Porque77 The Gospel is God's Law

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    The Gospel says:

    "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

    Jesus Christ says that this is the Law. Then?...
     
  8. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Did you not understand the question or are you deliberately avoiding it?
     
  9. Porque77

    Porque77 The Gospel is God's Law

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    likely?

    I do not see that the prophet Jeremiah speaks to us of the Oral Law. He tells us that the law was changed by the pen of the scribes. Jeremiah was referring to the written law:

    "...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

     
  10. Porque77

    Porque77 The Gospel is God's Law

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    I understood the question perfectly. But I say you are who does not understand that Jesus Christ gives the true Law. So I wrote this the Gospel says.

    The Gospel says:

    "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

    Jesus Christ says that this is the Law. Then?...

     
  11. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    He lied.

    There is only one G-D, and it's certaintly not jesus.
     
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  12. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    Prophets speak about prophesies. There were times when jews did bad things and were punished , and there were times jews did good things and were rewarded.

    However, jewish law comes from G-D.
     
  13. nazz

    nazz Doubting Thomas

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    That is not true at all. The Oral Torah does not and neither does much rabbinical law.

    But they did challenge it.
     
  14. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Jesus said the Law of Moses was binding for all time. Every iota. No exception. Those who teach to break the least of the commandments shall be called the least in the Kingdom. He summarized them all as doing to others what you would have to done to you, that does mean that now the commandments are void and replaced. Many commandments are about your relationship to God.

    Do you believe Christians are allowed to marry their sisters and commit indecent acts with animals? That's where your logic leads to. Every time I take on an antinomian, they have ABSOLUTELY NO DEFENSE for that.
     
  15. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Is there a reason you consistently refuse to provide a single example of the current Torah that you think they were talking about or do you seriously just not understand what I'm asking?

    I think English is not your first language so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

    I'm asking you to point out one of the laws that you think the scribes made up or changed that the prophets were talking about that ended up making it into the final version of the Torah.
     
  16. Porque77

    Porque77 The Gospel is God's Law

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    Well, that's what you say. But I see that Jewish law does not match the law of the Gospel, and the Law of the Gospel is the true Law of God because Jesus Christ tells us that this is the Law and the Prophets:

    "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)
     
  17. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    It's silly.

    God gave Moses a body, and great power. And he accomplished a lot. He made great laws, and even reforms to his own laws and understanding. He was a king. Both Moses and Aaron were human bodies. And so, godly wisdom and power came and went from them. They saved many, and were unable to save any of them completely. Many were slain, or died under Moses, Aaron, and what Jews call the everlasting law.

    This law is inefficient in both past and present conditions. It is broken continually, and has created war internally and externally. And so blasphemy occurs. And it occurs against those they conquer(ed).

    The sons of this law continue to produce elitism and destruction. Even so that the Ark was lost, and the House of God, defiled. Even so that they become lazy in striving toward righteousness, because they believe Abraham, and Moses, and Solomon, And David, And Elijah are elites. They are worshipped as the uncommon humanly bodies which need to be resurrected from death, or maintained in offspring for the sake of all future mankind.

    It's silly.

    Recognise what God has done. But don't neglect His work now. His footstool is bloodied and unclean. And evil is on the hearts of men continually, again.

    So what has He planned next? And when will this cycle of degradation, death, rebirth, and growth change or be repented?

    And what sort of Messiah could accomplish it? And maintain?
     
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  18. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    Eye for an eye means that if you hurt someone by mistake you compensate that person with money.


    Turning to get hit on the other cheek is certainly not a jewish idea.

    I think if you act that way the person will then kick you in the balls.

    What is the point? Does it show you are a good person that you take punishment? How is that a godly thing to do?

    If the nazis come to get you, you can bless them and turn the other check, and end up dead.

    I will show jewish values and defend yourself.

    In fact according to the talmud if you know someone is coming to kill you, you have a duty to get up earlier and kill him first.

    The only time women were killed is when the entire nation was corrupt or when women were part of the plot to destroy the jews.


    The Torah makes it virutally impossible to implement the death penalty.

    A jewish court that gave out the death penalty once in 70 years was considered a blood thirsty court.

    The criteria was so high to implement it, it was nearly impossible to implement.

    Again it shows a poor udnerstanding of jewish law.

    Also, that's a rediculous concept. G-D commanded to set up a court system. No person is perfect, and you don't have to be perfect to be a judge. If that was the case we would have lawlessness.

    If you actually took the time to read the case, you would see that this person did it in spite of the shabbos.

    He also did it publically and to rebel.

    Never happened.

    According to jewish law you can violate the sabbath to save a life.

    If it really wasn't that urgent and could of waited, then it should wait.

    However, sabbath laws can be violated to save a life.



    Nonsense again. The jewish court didn't even exist at that time. It only exists when they have their own government.

    And even if there was a jewish court as I mentioned the criteria was so high it made it impossible to implement execution.

    Obviously the Fictitious Christian Bible had a lot of hatred and made up stories about jews.

    The reason for that is that the jews didn't buy what jesus was selling.

    Jesus was a false prophet to the jews.
     
  19. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    Deuteronomy - Chapter 13 (Parshah Re'eh) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

    From Dvarim 13

    1. Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.

    Therefore, anything jesus said to contradict G-D's words from the Torah was false, and a challenge to G-D, the real G-D.
     
  20. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    Circular logic.
     
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