The problems with Islam and possible solutions?

[Trailblazer]

Allah is All-Forgiving, and as grievous a sin as disbelief or going astray in fundamental matters of belief is, I believe Allah is Capable of overturning His Prescription that the disbelievers will reside in Hell forever.

I agree that Allah is Capable of overturning His Prescription.

"... we must always remember that our existence and everything we have or ever will have is dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty, and therefore He can accept into His heaven, which is really nearness to Him, even the lowliest if He pleases. We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, January 12, 1957)

Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File

 

[stevecanuck]

Allah is All-Forgiving, and as grievous a sin as disbelief or going astray in fundamental matters of belief is, I believe Allah is Capable of overturning His Prescription that the disbelievers will reside in Hell forever.

There are literally hundreds of verses that say unbelievers will burn in Hell.

 

[stevecanuck]

I agree that Allah is Capable of overturning His Prescription.

"... we must always remember that our existence and everything we have or ever will have is dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty, and therefore He can accept into His heaven, which is really nearness to Him, even the lowliest if He pleases. We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, January 12, 1957)

Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File

Correct, but you must accept Islam before you die. If you wait until the resurrection and see the gates of Hell, it will be too late. There will be no forgiveness on Judgement Day.

 

[Trailblazer]

Correct, but you must accept Islam before you die. If you wait until the resurrection and see the gates of Hell, it will be too late. There will be no forgiveness on Judgement Day.

I accepted Islam when I became a Baha'i, because that is an absolute requirement. It is the Christians that you should be worried about.
I do not know if there will be any forgiveness on Judgment Day, only God knows that.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are literally hundreds of verses that say unbelievers will burn in Hell.

By unbelievers are you referring to anyone who has not accepted Islam or are you referring to atheists?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

There are literally hundreds of verses that say unbelievers will burn in Hell.

And there are also verses which suggest that Allah may will it otherwise, i.e. 6:128 and 11:107.

 

[stevecanuck]

I accepted Islam when I became a Baha'i, because that is an absolute requirement. It is the Christians that you should be worried about.
I do not know if there will be any forgiveness on Judgment Day, only God knows that.

If you accept Islam, then you accept the qur'an, and the qur'an says point blank that waiting until Judgement Day will be too late.

 

[stevecanuck]

By unbelievers are you referring to anyone who has not accepted Islam or are you referring to atheists?

Anyone who "belies our signs (disbelieves the qur'an)" is a disbeliever.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you accept Islam, then you accept the qur'an, and the qur'an says point blank that waiting until Judgement Day will be too late.

Waiting to do what until Judgement Day? What will it be too late to do?

 

[Trailblazer]

Anyone who "belies our signs (disbelieves the qur'an)" is a disbeliever.

That is pretty much everyone in the world except Baha'is and Muslims.

 

[stevecanuck]

And there are also verses which suggest that Allah may will it otherwise, i.e. 6:128 and 11:107.

Good find. Yes, those verses do appear to contradict all the others.

However, the fact that some verses contradict others brings up the problem of consistency. IMO, this is just more proof that the qur'an was authored by a mortal (Mohamed) rather than a god.

 

[stevecanuck]

Waiting to do what until Judgement Day? What will it be too late to do?

Accept Islam. "do not die without being a Muslim".

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Good find. Yes, those verses do appear to contradict all the others.

However, the fact that some verses contradict others brings up the problem of consistency. IMO, this is just more proof that the qur'an was authored by a mortal (Mohamed) rather than a god.

Allah has given a stern warning to disbelievers that they will burn in the Hellfire for their disbelief, but holds out the possibility that He will forgive them. So perhaps Hell is not eternal after all.

 

[stevecanuck]

Allah has given a stern warning to disbelievers that they will burn in the Hellfire for their disbelief, but holds out the possibility that He will forgive them. So perhaps Hell is not eternal after all.

You've actually brought up another subject. Once a person's destination has been determined, it is definitely for eternity. Either way.

 

[Trailblazer]

Accept Islam. "do not die without being a Muslim".

I accept the Qur'an as true, so why do I need to accept Islam and become a Muslim?

 

[Shakeel]

No, that is true, and that is why I will always argue that Allah knows best.

You chose to ignore the main part of my argument then.. I'm not surprised.

We don't say, Allah knows best, so that we can say whatever we want without any responsibility as to its correctness. That is simply abusing the words.

And Allah says in the Qur'an that disbelievers go to hell for an eternity.

5:37 "Their wish will be to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom: their penalty will be one that endures."

2:167 "...And they are never to emerge from the Fire."

7:40 "Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals."

43:74 "Indeed, the criminals will be in the punishment of Hell, abiding eternally."

What is the point of saying, "I don't know if that's [that which is said in the Qur'an and repeated numerous times] true," and then adding, "Allah knows best," that's obviously hypocritical.

 

[Shakeel]

You've actually brought up another subject. Once a person's destination has been determined, it is definitely for eternity. Either way.

Rather the scholars say that the sinners who are believers may or will be taken out of hell sometime, but nobody wants to go to hell for any period of time.

 

[Shakeel]

I accepted Islam when I became a Baha'i,

No, you rejected Islam when you became a Baha'i.

Why?
This is why, for example:

I do not know if there will be any forgiveness on Judgment Day, only God knows that.

And there are also verses which suggest that Allah may will it otherwise, i.e. 6:128 and 11:107.

Are there any scholars who think that? Because there a many who do not even consider such an interpretation. Mainly because it contradicts a myriad of other verses in the Qur'an and a myriad of hadiths as well, in addition to that it can be interpreted in other ways.

 

[Shakeel]

Waiting to do what until Judgement Day? What will it be too late to do?

To repent.

That is pretty much everyone in the world except Baha'is and Muslims.

You are right here proving how you don't believe in the Qur'an and yet you say this? Do you really expect people to believe that?

Allah has given a stern warning to disbelievers that they will burn in the Hellfire for their disbelief, but holds out the possibility that He will forgive them. So perhaps Hell is not eternal after all.

And you have rejected a myriad of verses and hadiths in favor of two to make yourself feel better.

I accept the Qur'an as true, so why do I need to accept Islam and become a Muslim?

Accepting the Qur'an is basically becoming a Muslim. You have not accepted the Qur'an and you're making it very clear.

And why accept Islam?

Because the Quran tells you to and you supposedly believe in it.

3:85 "And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."

 

[danieldemol]

7:40 "Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals."

Just out of curiosity what translation of the Quran are you using?