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Featured The problems with Islam and possible solutions?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Link, May 4, 2021.

  1. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    (1) Cutting off their hand, is metaphorical prose. It means prevent them from stealing until they repent and reform themselves.
    (2) Slavery was never allowed. What was to be done with war captives, was they were to be ransomed or freed during war but once the war terminates, there are no captives, and hence all to be freed. Malakat aymanihim refers to marriage and muta, and when put side to side with marriage, is hence, referring to Muta.
    (3) If verses can seen not to cancel one another, but in light of each other, explain one another, then the latter should be upheld. The punishment for adultery per one verse means confining them to their house till death takes them or God finds a way out for them. It's possible lashes is metaphorical and refers to the amount of time required to be in the house. Each day, is hence, metaphorically a lash. The verses then would be saying the same thing, one from view point of how many days, and the other from the general vantage point and where about. The other requirement is that believers ought to witness their punishment and hence, their identity revealed in public and their sin become known.
    (4) Verses about apostates, shows, if they are not fighting the believers of that time, and offer peace, to be let go.
    (5) The reason why women get less inheritance, is obvious, the man is required to give dowry to a woman, and at the same time, God wants men less influenced by the wealth of the women when seeking a woman, but not the other way. There are reasons for that, but mainly, to do a lot with how women judge character better and read emotions better. Men are already influenced primarily by looks, while women by character, and hence adding wealth motivation for men regarding women, will make a bad situation worse.
    (6) The reason why a woman is emphasized to seek a 2nd witness in particular case (this doesn't refer to witnessing crimes), is because women brains work differently in memory and remember things by association better and are better emotionally for that. One woman can easily remind another woman if they were both there, while, if a man forgot something, chances are another man reminding him of it, will make him assume the other man is lying (in the case of financial dealings and money).
    (7) The reason why hell is forever and harsh, is because, God is the severest in punishing where it's proper, just as he is the most compassionate and forgiving in places of compassion and mercy. This easily seen as everything comes from God, even anger yet anger because it's used selfishly often and out of Satanic or irrational reasons has a bad reputation. But Anger and retribution, itself, has a proper place as well.
    (8) Why disbelievers deserve it is because goodness is love that is guided and loves things as they truly are and seeks to know God and his beloved chosen and the believers. The opposite is hate and envy towards God's light, and the holy kings and their believers. The latter deserves hell as it's oppressive, dark ,and evil.
     
  2. Shakeel

    Shakeel Active Member

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    People who twist the scripture because they're too weak to accept the truth can be a problem indeed.
     
  3. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Your apologetics do not convince or even impress me.
     
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  4. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    While I like much of the interpretation in the OP, the historical record shows otherwise Amputation in Islamic Law - WikiIslam

    Now if you want to assert that the Hudud punishments have evolved and that today we should read the Quran etc from a different perspective, I'll agree with you. Or if you are a Quran-only Muslim, it's another matter.

    But that needs to be done in the light of acknowledging history.
     
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  5. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Islam is much more than that today. Islam has become more of a political tool than a religion. The wars in Middle East, and so many divsions between different Muslims, has caused so much suffering for Many Muslims, such as Syrians, Afghanistan people, Irakies, Iranians, Pakistanis, etc, and some of these problems have come to North America, and Europe's. The problem is much deeper than just some Shariah Laws.
     
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  6. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    The OP demonstrates one of the problem with all "revealed" religions:

    One human being is claiming to know the word of god more than another human being does. By what means does anyone support the claim that THEY have the correct interpretation of a scripture?
     
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  7. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    The problem with Islam is its inability to deviate from scriptures even where that deviation is demonstrably beneficial.

    The solution: admit that it's all man-made, then all positive deviation from scripture becomes acceptable.

    In my opinion.
     
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  8. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    I am not a Quran only Muslim, but historically, the sorcerers who were polytheists and didn't believe in Mohammad (s) are who ruled the Muslims, and they wished for Islam to lose it's prestige.

    There is hadith from Imam Ali (a) against maiming, there is one from Imam Reda (a) against slavery.
     
  9. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    You bring a good point. According to words of Ahlulbayt (a), the Quran was twisted (in meaning) and the Sunnah changed, and laws of Islam corrupted, after the Prophet (s). Yet we see that Shiites practically agree with Sunnism on everything except a few minor laws, but what I'm proposing is more in line, that the Quran was interpreted wrongly. The Sunnah and laws severely changed.

    Something to keep in mind Quran always advocated to stay true to human nature and don't lose our human nature, stay as a reasonable human being, and the truth will become apparent to us if we do.
     
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  10. Shakeel

    Shakeel Active Member

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    That's miles away from the truth. They differ on fundamentals of Islam.
     
  11. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    We disagree on the fundamentals and foundations of guidance, but what I'm saying, then it doesn't make sense that we disagree on that, and our shariah is basically the same except with a few minor differences. What I'm proposing is more in line with the many hadiths about severe corruption to the laws of Islam the hadiths of Ahlulbayt talk about.
     
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  12. Shakeel

    Shakeel Active Member

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    I don't understand that sentence, but I do understand that 95% of what you say are lies. Nothing else really matters. If you don't want Islam, you are free to leave it.
     
  13. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Of course, Shi'a views on Imam Ali are very different than Sunni views.

    But for my edification, please provide references to the two hadith you mentioned.

    I also think most people (including to some degree me) don't know what constitutes proof of a crime such as theft. https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1956&context=clevstlrev seems to cover the 4 Sunni schools.

    And even beyond it, we need to remember that by the standards present in Christian England, the punishment for theft in Islam, even amputation, was much more civilized than executing the criminal Bloody Code - Wikipedia
     
    #13 sun rise, May 5, 2021
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
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  14. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    As for not mutilating/maiming/cutting of parts of the body:


    My advice to you is to be conscious of Allah and steadfast in your religion. Do not yearn for the world, and do not be seduced by it. Do not resent anything you have missed in it. Proclaim the truth; work for the next world. Oppose the oppressor and support the oppressed. I advise you, and all my children, my relatives, and whosoever receives this message, to be conscious of Allah, to remove your differences, and to strengthen your ties. I heard your grandfather, peace be upon him, say: "Reconciliation of your differences is more worthy than all prayers and all fasting."
    Fear Allah in matters concerning orphans. Attend to their nutrition and do not forget their interests in the middle of yours.
    Fear Allah in your relations with your neighbours. Your Prophet often recommended them to you, so much so that we thought he would give them a share in inheritance.
    Remain attached to the Quran. Nobody should surpass you in being intent on it, or more sincere in implementing it.
    Fear Allah in relation to your prayers. It is the pillar of your religion. Fear Allah in relation to His House; do not abandon it as long as you live. It you should do that you would abandon your dignity. Persist in jihad in the cause of Allah, with your money, your souls, and your tongue.
    Maintain communication and exchange of opinion among yourselves. Beware of disunity and enmity. Do not desist from promoting good deeds and cautioning against bad ones. Should you do that, the worst among you would be your leaders, and you will call upon Allah without response.
    O Children of Abdul Mattaleb! Do not shed the blood of Muslims under the banner: The Imam has been assassinated! Only the assassin should be condemned to death. If I die of this stab of his, kill him with one similar stroke. Do not mutilate him! I have heard the Prophet, peace be upon him, say: "Mutilate not even a rabid dog."
    Source: Najul Balagha

    Here is the online source: Imaam Ali (AS) (hussainimission.info)
     
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  15. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    No, we really don't need to. Islam claims to be a religion revealed as guidance for the end times as well. We can't have the Shariah and say it's outdated. Either it's a guidance or not.

    My suggestion is that it's been misinterpreted (Quranic laws) and Sunnah changed but we can refer back to Quran and hadiths that give insight.

    There are also the following hadiths which supporting that any physical punishment (like lashing) doesn't have a place in Islam:

    ‘Ali, The Commander of the Faithful, says:

    “The intelligent person gets guidance through politeness, it is only the animals that cannot be corrected without beatings."4

    Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq says:

    “Whoever whips another person once, Allah will shower the fiery whip against him."5

    The Prophet of Islam said:

    “Use love and affection in education and upbringing and don’t have access to cruelty because a wise mentor is better than a cruel one."
     
  16. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Good for you.

    Meanwhile, the oppression, violence and trampling of human rights in brutal theocracies continue and terrorist cells around the world continue their holy mission.
     
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  17. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Imagine if Muhammad put that in the Quran instead of the bit about 100 lashes. You would have no need for all the mental gymnastics to pretend one says the other.

    Also I find it ironic that all the hadith which portray Muhammad's character in a bad light are said by certain Muslims to be fabricated, whereas any that don't are said to be authentic. That is cherrypicking and not an historical approach.
     
  18. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    Salam

    Imam Ali (a) stated this about the Quran:

    But the Prophet left among you the same which other Prophets left among their peoples, because Prophets do not leave them untended (in dark) without a clear path and a standing ensign, namely the Book of your Creator clarifying its permission and prohibitions, its obligations and discretion, its repealing injunctions and the repealed ones, its permissible matters and compulsory ones, its particulars and the general ones, its lessons and illustrations, its long and the short ones, its clear and obscure ones, detailing its abbreviations and clarifying its obscurities.

    In it there are some verses whose knowledge1 is obligatory and others whose ignorance by the people is permissible. It also contains what appears to be obligatory according to the Book2 but its repeal is signified by the Prophet’s action (sunnah) or that which appears compulsory according to the Prophet’s action but the Book allows not following it.

    Or there are those which are obligatory in a given time but not so after that time. Its prohibitions also differ. Some are major regarding which there exists the threat of fire (Hell), and others are minor for which there are prospects of forgiveness. There are also those of which a small portion is also acceptable (to Allah) but they are capable of being expanded.
     
  19. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    In other words your dogmatic Muhammad did not always practice what He preached in my opinion.
     
  20. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    It means there is context and parables in Quran, and so you have to resort to it's own verses and the family of the reminder to remove ambiguity in which something can appear to be a command but really it's not.
     
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