The period after death

[YmirGF]

I have had a bit of an "aha" moment and am concertizing my ideas about the period following the initial death experience. For those who are not up to speed, it is my contention that, upon physical death, the individual experiences whatever they believe will happen after physical death. This is wide open, in those terms and includes anything and everything people can imagine, including nothingness.

Now this "aha" moment wasn't about that period of the death experience. The "aha" moment was about the period directly following this experience and it is that part that I wanted to get your ideas. In short, what I am envisioning is that the events unfolding after physical death happen in at least three stages.

1. The body croaks and the initial subjective death experience occurs.
2. The intial death experience is past and one gets used to their new surroundings
3. After getting reacquainted with the root assumptions of the current system, the individual is able to get out and explore.


Does you religion or your own personal beliefs include details about the post death experience? Please note: This is a discussion area and therefore peoples comments are not open to debate. There will be no requests for evidence, thank you, very much.

I guess why I am asking is that I perceive a period wherein the individual is getting used to their new environment and is not able to wander too far, lest they disturb the locals, as it were, at least, not at first.

Understand that I am not interested if you agree or disagree. That isn't the point of this discussion. The point of this discussion is to compare ideas of what happens after physical death.


Any thoughts?

 

[Smoke]

I'm inclined to think that when you die you're just dead.

However, as I've mentioned before, I'd like very much to believe as you do. It seems to me much better than what I've heard from any religion, including my own.

Since I don't actually know for sure, I'd like to think your belief is at least possible.

 

[Caladan]

As smoke said 'when dead you are dead'. in general thats what I think. in your death you release your body back to nature, and if I may be poetic, to the great cycle of life, in this metaphoric sense you are never lost, from earth and back to the earth.

 

[Zardoz]

...I guess why I am asking is that I perceive a period wherein the individual is getting used to their new environment and is not able to wander too far, lest they disturb the locals, as it were, at least, not at first.

Understand that I am not interested if you agree or disagree. That isn't the point of this discussion. The point of this discussion is to compare ideas of what happens after physical death.


Any thoughts?

According to Jewish belief, up to one year the spirit remains with the body, as it is attached to it. This is why in our tradition one waits a year before laying the headstone, as to not show disrespect.

 

[Caladan]

According to Jewish belief, up to one year the spirit remains with the body, as it is attached to it. This is why in our tradition one waits a year before laying the headstone, as to not show disrespect.

Many Jews do not believe in the afterlife, but that this is the only existence we have, with Judaism putting all its weight on the details of this existence, and how to guard and develop the community here on earth.

 

[Caladan]

Unlike Islam and Christianity, the Jewish scriptures and also literautre have little to say about the afterlife. on the other hand like I said above, Judaism is all about this physical reality.

 

[Buttercup]

This subject is the first one I've read in a long time that has had enough power to tempt me to post again....as arrogant as that sounds.

The mystery of what happens after one's death has seductively wound in and out of my thoughts countless times over the last year. I've had numerous conjectured discussions with my husband and friends about what happens after we leave this life. And, even though we can never know the solid answer to the question, it's a completely and utterly fascinating topic nonetheless.

My current opinion on the after life is that, there is one. I'm also inclined to think that the soul or energy or spirit of some people sticks close to their former life - at least for awhile. I've read and listened to far too many first hand accounts of people being visited by previously living humans to discount the idea altogether.

The question that nags at me these days is why do some "spirits" stick close to home and some seem to move on and out to the far beyond? Do we make the choice to move to a "higher" place at some point? Do failings from our former life keep us from 'lifting off'?

I'm eager to talk about it all. Thanks, Paul!

 

[Alceste]

I have had a bit of an "aha" moment and am concertizing my ideas about the period following the initial death experience. For those who are not up to speed, it is my contention that, upon physical death, the individual experiences whatever they believe will happen after physical death. This is wide open, in those terms and includes anything and everything people can imagine, including nothingness.

I used to think that as well. Given that we are all endowed with exactly the same psychological and biological aptitude, there are only two possible perspectives that accommodate the diversity of human opinion on life after death: 1) They are all correct. 2) They are all incorrect. The popular proposal that one of these beliefs is correct and all others are false is absolutely ludicrous, IMO. A child's fantasy.

I could go either way now but the truth of the matter is I don't know (and neither does anybody else). I've got the dilemma that if I go with 1, the implication is that subjective preconceptions of death determine afterlife experience. What does that mean for a person who "just doesn't know"? Am I supposed to just pick something arbitrarily? And if I do that, am I not risking a downward spiral into the mentality that my arbitrarily chosen afterlife belief is "true" and all others are "false"?

It's quite a conundrum. This is what led me to lean toward option 2: all beliefs are incorrect. Trying to work out the details of who goes where in an afterlife that is determined by our subjective preconceptions became too absurd for me to maintain the opinion that what we believe death is has anything at all to do with what death is.

 

[YmirGF]

I used to think that as well. Given that we are all endowed with exactly the same psychological and biological aptitude, there are only two possible perspectives that accommodate the diversity of human opinion on life after death: 1) They are all correct. 2) They are all incorrect. The popular proposal that one of these beliefs is correct and all others are false is absolutely ludicrous, IMO. A child's fantasy.

I could go either way now but the truth of the matter is I don't know (and neither does anybody else). I've got the dilemma that if I go with 1, the implication is that subjective preconceptions of death determine afterlife experience. What does that mean for a person who "just doesn't know"? Am I supposed to just pick something arbitrarily? And if I do that, am I not risking a downward spiral into the mentality that my arbitrarily chosen afterlife belief is "true" and all others are "false"?

It's quite a conundrum. This is what led me to lean toward option 2: all beliefs are incorrect. Trying to work out the details of who goes where in an afterlife that is determined by our subjective preconceptions became too absurd for me to maintain the opinion that what we believe death is has anything at all to do with what death is.

Your post may be quite helpful in allowing me to pin this down in my own mind. Let me mull the "I don't know" group for a bit and see what I can dream up. To be honest, I thought about it, but decided that peoples ideas are more fixed than they may realize. I dropped the idea there and didn't follow through with the possibility of genuine "I don't know's". Food for thought that does have some tantalizing implications. My gut reaction is that such individuals may be in the best position to experience what comes after, as what I am perceiving is a period of dissolving previous beliefs based on new information.

 

[Buttons*]

I'll have to come back to this thread, but I've been thinking it over for sure. For now, I'll just say that when I hit 12, I actually, for the first time, considered death. Even though I was Christian at the time, I could only come up with two fantasies:

1) A retirement home full of old people - most people that die are old... right? (haha, 12 year old logic) And obviously it's ultra crowded because SO many people have died throughout the years.... and omg, the animals would all be up there too! (Because... well, they were baptized in my church... why wouldn't they be in heaven?) It would have to be and endless space... but it would just be a blank white space....

2) At 14, I meditated on it once. (I didn't know anything about meditation, but looking back, that's what it was.) Silence. The ultimate nothing. Just white.... just an endless static. Like, the visual perception of the ringing you hear sometimes before you enter a deep sleep. I almost like to think it was a vision of sorts. Almost like a white room, but no definition, a fog without substance. My mind couldn't process it, and even looking back, my heart races at the idea of a big nothing. I was afraid. After trying to rationalize it, still being Christian at this point, I figured it was like a snowglobe, where God and Jesus and the Universe watched over it. It doesn't make sense now, but these were the ideas that I had in my mind as a young adult... and perhaps it is time to revisit them.

When I was young, perhaps 7 or 8, I used to try and stretch my mind by contemplating, "Yes, but what's BEYOND that?" It seemed a pointless exercise as well, and sometimes I'd try to see beyond all the universes altogether. Not a very realistic practice... but a in interesting one nonetheless. I'd always have to stop when my heart gained pace at the idea of the white edge of the universe, the silence. Only when I was 14 did I contemplate it in terms of "death" - and I haven't had the courage to go back.

Still.... I need to go back and apply this to your questions, Paul, so give me some more time to work up the courage to get there.

 

[John D]

For me it is like a baby being born. One moment a fetus in water, fed by a tube. The next a place where you observe with 5 senses, you breath air and you develop teeth to chew your food or bite your brother.
What you developed here(womb/world) will have a function "there" -wherever that may be.
All I am worried about is being stillborn - didn't developed to my fullest potential!!!

 

[Zardoz]

Many Jews do not believe in the afterlife, but that this is the only existence we have, with Judaism putting all its weight on the details of this existence, and how to guard and develop the community here on earth...
Unlike Islam and Christianity, the Jewish scriptures and also literautre have little to say about the afterlife. on the other hand like I said above, Judaism is all about this physical reality.

Yes, indeed. Other than the first-year traditions that I posted about, there's no explanation what happens in the afterlife until the last stage of the afterlife, the Final Judgment. There's not even full consensus if that final event happens on only a spiritual plane or, as many believe, there's a resurrection for the event. See Rambam's 13th principle:

13: I believe with perfect faith that there will be a revival of the dead at the time when it shall please the Creator, Blessed be His name, and His mention shall be exalted for ever and ever.

In either case, reward or punishment in some far future Final Judgment isn't the main motivation for obedience to G-d and accepting the yoke of Torah observance, so in that regard it's true that Judaism is all about our path in this world, not reward or punishment in any world to come/afterlife.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Yes, indeed. Other than the first-year traditions that I posted about, there's no explanation what happens in the afterlife until the last stage of the afterlife, the Final Judgment. There's not even full consensus if that final event happens on only a spiritual plane or, as many believe, there's a resurrection for the event. See Rambam's 13th principle:

Is there any eternal hell/heaven in Judaism.Anything about reincarnation?


Thanks.

 

[Zardoz]

Is there any eternal hell/heaven in Judaism.Anything about reincarnation?

No eternal hell, for sure, a spirit judged as unworthy of heaven simply will no longer exist, not tortured forever in some hell. I'm unsure if heaven is eternal in the physical sense only G-d is eternal.

There is reincarnation in Judaism but it's not good, it's a punishment.

It's called 'Gilgul Neshama' (cycle soul):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul_(Kabbalah)

 

[Metempsychosis]

No eternal hell, for sure, a spirit judged as unworthy of heaven simply will no longer exist, not tortured forever in some hell. I'm unsure if heaven is eternal in the physical sense only G-d is eternal.

There is reincarnation in Judaism but it's not good, it's a punishment.

It's called 'Gilgul Neshama' (cycle soul):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgul_(Kabbalah)

Thanks.

 

[ruhnafsoul]

hmm... I'm afraid of death.. I'm afraid to experience death.. really scared me.. especially when I had witnessed a person during the last moment the death comes to him..
I pray..and believe in GOD, to ease the burden of being afraid of death... and this afraid, is not being created by me, but it appears inside me..

Nobody knows the period after death.. but I believe we leave our body when we are dead

 

[John D]

hmm... I'm afraid of death.. I'm afraid to experience death.. really scared me.. especially when I had witnessed a person during the last moment the death comes to him..
I pray..and believe in GOD, to ease the burden of being afraid of death... and this afraid, is not being created by me, but it appears inside me..

Nobody knows the period after death.. but I believe we leave our body when we are dead

Just curious.....
Is it death that scares you or dying (process)

 

[Peace]

In Islam once a person dies, his family washes and shrouds the body, usually in white. Then, the deceased is taken to the mosque so as for people to perform funeral prayer for him. Then he is taken to the cemetry for burial. The grave is the phase that seperates this lifefrom the hereafter. Once buried, two angels "Nakir & Munkar" appears to the dead asking him about his deeds. Among the famous questions the angels ask are: "who is your God?', "What is your religion" and "Who is the man who was sent to you?"
Then either a gate of paradise is opened for the dead or a gate of hell, of course according to his deeds in life. That stage, which is a phase prior to the resurrection, is called "al-barzakh" where the soul either finds peace and tranquility or torture.

 

[Dunemeister]

Unlike Islam and Christianity, the Jewish scriptures and also literautre have little to say about the afterlife. on the other hand like I said above, Judaism is all about this physical reality.

Christian revelation has surprisingly little to say about the afterlife, either, adding only a few details (and perhaps certainty) to their Jewish heritage.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Why do you suppose that you will have an ego in the next life.
I suspect it is left behind at death.