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Featured The idolatry of Christianity

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by AlonNaor, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that was because God was not saving people by grace in the Tanakh.

    I don't believe you can consider it all fantasy or symbolic. That would be highly unreasonable.

    I believe for me that does not mean that there are no errors only that it is all that God wished it to be and God doesn't make mistakes.

    I believe Jesus came in the fullness of time ie He came when it mattered the most. I believe God cared enough to provide the ten commandments.

    I believe there is no such person. The Gospel has gone out to everyone.
     
  2. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the New Testament was written by spirit filled men and certainly some of the old testament was written by men hearing directly from God and the rest wrote by the inspiration of God.
     
  3. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the old covenant is everlasting but the new covenant also includes Jews who wish to be saved. So then a Jew will have both the old and new covenant. Needless to say though that there are some aspects of the new covenant that supersede the old one.
     
  4. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I never stated nor implied that it is.
     
  5. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
    It's My Birthday!

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    The OT was written after the Babylonian Exile and constantly redacted and amended. I'm afraid you are oblivious to the politics involved. Judah hated Israel for most of their history.

    Gross exaggeration takes its toll on credibility.
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    The problem with the covenant is that Abraham and Moses are fiction as is the Exodus, Joshua's wars, the Flood and Adam and Eve. They borrowed those myths from other cultures to give themselves an identity and history. They were unaffiliated Canaanites.. Does killing people and stealing their land sound like God to you?
     
  7. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    I was turned on to his book because if was so often quoted in Benedict's 'Jesus of Nazareth.'

    I have been through many heavily documented books, Kung, Rahner, Brown, Ratzinger etc., and for me they served the purpose of reconciling faiith and knowledge,but now at this age I find I prefer feeding for the soul.
     
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  8. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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  9. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    What is important here is the intent the author wished to convey using myth as the vehicle.
     
  10. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, when the Canaanites were killing their own babies and engaging in idolatry, incest, bestiality, etc., etc.

    The Sins of the Canaanites

    https://www.equip.org/article/killing-the-canaanites/

    But hey - let the baby-butchering Canaanites live and thrive to butcher some more! That's the liberal way! Screw God and save the butchers! Go Sooda!!
     
  11. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I hear ya because that's more where I'm at as well, especially ever since my conversion back into the Church. I'm now more into Catholic magazines (America, Commonweal, and Catholic Digest) than with the books. However, I still do enjoy the theology, especially dealing with the early Church that had led to my studies in historical Judaism a few decades ago that led me to conversion to Judaism (not messianic) for over 20 years.

    BTW, I'm restarting my involvement with the RCIA program this fall, so I'm looking forward to that.
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Thus Joseph Campbell's famous "And the myth became the reality" saying.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    The Jews were just another Canaanite tribe that had no land or affiliations.
     
  14. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear that. That's quite a commitment, I know how involved that program is, but so worth the effort. And very rewarding knowing it dates back to the early 3rd cent preparation for baptism. The catechumenate lasted for three years. The sacrament of Baptism was administered during the night between Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday.
     
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  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Yep, and they had to leave the service at "halftime" because they could not participate in the Eucharist, plus they used to have to present a public confession, which eventually got discontinued and went to private confession, and I think we can figure out why that change was made. Then, before they could be admitted, they had to sit near the back wearing clothes with their hair in an unkempt manner, plus they had to have a sponsor who knew them to vouch for their sincerity to come into the Church. We have to remember that the Church was often being persecuted prior to Constantine.

    BTW, I was involved with the beginning application of the RCIA here in the Midwest as I represented my church down in Dayton, Ohio that involved several days of how it was to be implemented. At that same conference I ran into a guy who was the priest for the two lay missionaries and two nuns raped in murdered in El Salvador, and we got so involved into discussing this that we skipped the next meeting. He invited me to volunteer working at the mission down there for the following summer but I couldn't because I had a job teaching summer school then. He was a truly interesting man, let me tell ya.
     
  16. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Do they not still do that?

    By any chance was the conference held at the University of Dayton? Only reason I am familiar with the university I took several on line courses which my parish paid half the tuition.

    Wasn't that the reason John Paul II lifted the ban on birth control for nuns going to that area?
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Our parish did for the 14 years I was there before. We have a meeting next Sunday to try and determine what the procedure will be for this upcoming class.

    No, it was at Bergamo (or something like that), which is a Catholic retreat area.

    That I don't know, but I could see that as a possibility because of "the lesser of two evils" Catch-22 they could be in. They did much the same in areas of sub-Sahara Africa in the past whereas HIV was running rampant, whereas condoms were reluctantly allowed.
     
  18. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    You are mistaken. Paul began quite early on deliberately targeting the God-fearers (righteous Gentiles) in the synogogues out in the Empire.

    Paul couldn't do just anything he wanted to. He was under James and Peter for example. That doesn't mean Paul's primary mission wasn't to Gentiles.

    Judaism does NOT teach that Gentiles need to become Jews. We teach that Gentiles need only be righteous Gentiles. You guys do not for any reason need to become circumcised and take on the covenant. The early Church agreed with this. Paul agreed with this. It's what the emphasis of every one of his epistles is.


    We do? Where in your scriptures does it say this?

    I have addressed this over and over and over in my writings here in this forum. The back and forth between Jesus (of bet Hillel) and the Pharisees of bet Shammai was typical. It was quite normal for the two schools to have these sorts of question and answers sessions, to argue, to have sincere disputes. It was the rage at this time in Jewish history. We have plenty of examples of this in the Talmud. There is nothing exceptional about what happened between Jesus and the other Pharisees.

    I would like to recommend the following book by Orthodox Rabbi Harvey Falk: Jesus the Pharisee--A New Look at the Jewishness of Jesus


    I don't know about this, and I certainly don't know about "most scholars". Perhaps you are referring to groups beyond the Pharisees such as the Essenes. But the Pharisees themselves, there were only two groups that historically matters: bet Hillel and bet Shammai.

    What makes you think Jesus was against keeping the letter of the law? You have to keep the letter of the law if you are going to keep its spirit.

    Jesus is not even a minor footnote in Jewish history. None of his ideas about Torah were original. In a word, he simply didn't contribute anything of not to Judaism. What's worse, his followers took what he said, and perverted it away from an obedience centered thing to a whole theology centered thing to start a new religion that was hostile to his own Judaism.

    You never were able to prove this.
     
  19. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    That is some hilarious stuff.:D
     
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  20. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Note the 'truth inference', in that rant, it's in there.
     
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