The Golden Rule-does it apply to everyone?

[RabbiO]

Thanks. I almost always like your post Sir. You are way smarter than a lot of folks here I think

If you keep saying those nice things about Jay, he's going to be almost impossible to live with - or should I say even more almost impossible to live with!

 

[JustWondering2]

LOL so I'm forewarned then huh.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The guy did a really good job of covering the material and presenting it. The last sentence in his talk was " Do all these thing as long as the person is a believer". What? I felt like standing up in front of the congregation and calling him out, a believer what the Hell is that.
So my question is simple. I know there are folks here that know the Bible a lot better than I. So I ask is this true? To me he said abide by the Golden Rule as long as that person you're dealing with is a believer is Christ,................
Just Wondering

Since the word believer is Not used at Matthew 7:12 then the scriptural answer is "No".

Christians are to work good toward "all" men according to Galatians 6:10, but especially toward believers.
In other words ' if need be ' then those of one's spiritual family would come first, but Not exclusively.

Christians are given a New command at John 13:34-35 which is superior to the Golden Rule in that Christians are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus' displayed. In other words, now love neighbor more than self.

 

[shmogie]

For me I think what got under my skin more than anything was that I got the feeling that they felt them saying those words, calling themselves a "believer" some how elevated them as being better than others. Particularly the ones that think their idea of worshiping God is the only way to get to heaven. Those are the ones that I will not associate with anymore. "You know the devil is ..........." BS The devil never made me do anything, nor did he make them do anything. It's just an excuse.

Well, Christ did say " no man comes to the Father but by me". I happen to believe him, so I am a believer. No better than anyone else, just a believer, and many are not, as is perfectly their right,

 

[shmogie]

Question Sir or Madame : What part of the country (USA) are you from? Also were you Poor or well off. You'd be surprised how much difference it can make in ones perspective. I sir am a born and raised Texan, from Small Town Texas, closer to what most of the South is like. I think my Great Great Gran paw was a slave owner. I am not a racist myself (not any more) but I was sure as Hell raised as one. But I saw a different kind of racism, we were very poor when I was young. One Easter morning in the late 50 my two older sisters and I walked down the street to an old country Baptist church. We were a little late getting there so we had to look for a place to set. I remember the comments I heard "white trash", "PoorFolk" and the best of all "look at those white *iggers, where is there white trash parents". Nice folks that sure made me want to grow up and be like them. I have NEVER felt Love inside a church EVER!

You cannot judge a set of doctrines by those who are supposed to keep them, you will always be disappointed

 

[David T]

Several years ago I dated a Fundamentalist Christian woman who sang the praises of her church an pastor and how good ...... on and on. I went sometimes with her and her kids, not all the time. This was a large Bible Church in Arlington Texas. I've always been a believer in the Golden Rule, and one of the assistant pastor did a 2-3 part talk about it. I won't go into the details of what he said, we all should know the Golden Rule here.

The guy did a really good job of covering the material and presenting it. The last sentence in his talk was " Do all these thing as long as the person is a believer". What? I felt like standing up in front of the congregation and calling him out, a believer what the Hell is that.

So my question is simple. I know there are folks here that know the Bible a lot better than I. So I ask is this true? To me he said abide by the Golden Rule as long as that person you're dealing with is a believer is Christ, if not then all bets are off and the golden rule does not apply? Help me out here folks I'm confused. My atheist parents beat the Golden Rule into my head. I never heard of this before, sounds a lot like religious bigotry to me.

Just Wondering

A friend recently asked me, why are religious folks so stupid? My response was " I don't think they invented stupidity, although they seem hell bent on perfecting it sometimes". The gentleman doesnt understand his bible, he doesnt understand the topic " god", he doesnt understand nature, he doesn't even understand himself. I put all of those "he does not understands" together and we arrive at an agregate total that is best defined as "NORMAL". So what's your question, he is normal!

 

[Deeje]

So my question is simple. I know there are folks here that know the Bible a lot better than I. So I ask is this true? To me he said abide by the Golden Rule as long as that person you're dealing with is a believer is Christ, if not then all bets are off and the golden rule does not apply? Help me out here folks I'm confused

Let Jesus answer this......

Matthew 5:43-48:
“You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

We are to show love (agape) to all....righteous and unrighteous, like God does. Even our enemies are not excluded from this.
The "Golden Rule" applies to everyone.

And the parable of the Good Samaritan shows us to what extent this love can be shown. (Luke 10:30-37)

 

[Kemosloby]

It's a good reminder that deeds cannot save you and to remember to put faith first.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Most of my exposure to Christians has been either unrelated to there religion or related to (a) family life cycle events, (b) charity events, or (c) social justice advocacy. The overriding view expresses seems to be "let's take care of one another."

And I am not denying their general core philosophy whatsoever. I am merely stating that given a religious context for their get-togethers, things are very often said and expressed that are goofy, and sometimes even in complete contrast to what I know they are supposed to believe - or even in contrast to how they believe that they believe/behave!

And most of my exposure to Christians and Catholics has been within religious settings. Sermons/services, small prayer groups, as you mentioned "family life-cycle events" like funerals and heavily religious wedding ceremonies, charity events and my daughter attended a Catholic private school for a couple of years.

 

[Reggie Miller II]

Several years ago I dated a Fundamentalist Christian woman who sang the praises of her church an pastor and how good ...... on and on. I went sometimes with her and her kids, not all the time. This was a large Bible Church in Arlington Texas. I've always been a believer in the Golden Rule, and one of the assistant pastor did a 2-3 part talk about it. I won't go into the details of what he said, we all should know the Golden Rule here.

The guy did a really good job of covering the material and presenting it. The last sentence in his talk was " Do all these thing as long as the person is a believer". What? I felt like standing up in front of the congregation and calling him out, a believer what the Hell is that.

So my question is simple. I know there are folks here that know the Bible a lot better than I. So I ask is this true? To me he said abide by the Golden Rule as long as that person you're dealing with is a believer is Christ, if not then all bets are off and the golden rule does not apply? Help me out here folks I'm confused. My atheist parents beat the Golden Rule into my head. I never heard of this before, sounds a lot like religious bigotry to me.

Just Wondering

Hello Just Wondering.
The pastor is simply incorrect. Jesus made no stipulation when He said to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Love your neighbor period, no stipulations or exceptions.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am merely stating that given a religious context for their get-togethers, things are very often said and expressed that are goofy, and sometimes even in complete contrast to what I know they are supposed to believe - or even in contrast to how they believe that they believe/behave!

This does not at all correspond to my experience, and this experience has been fairly extensive. I suspect that either (a) your social context is atypical or (b) you see what you want to see and that your posts are excessively influenced by confirmation bias. and that this post reflects little more than low grade Christian-bashing.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

This does not at all correspond to my experience, and this experience has been fairly extensive. I suspect that either (a) your social context is atypical or (b) you see what you want to see and that your posts are excessively influenced by confirmation bias. and that this post reflects little more than low grade Christian-bashing.

Think what you want. I can provide plenty of examples. Plenty. Just ask.

 

[JustWondering2]

You cannot judge a set of doctrines by those who are supposed to keep them, you will always be disappointed

Oh yes of coarse I agree

Hello Just Wondering.
The pastor is simply incorrect. Jesus made no stipulation when He said to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Love your neighbor period, no stipulations or exceptions.

Yes Sir I have known that all of my life. However I have encountered many folks that feel and behave just as I have described. My favorite is "Have you been saved? I have." I was asked that as a child, I said "Saved from what?" I had no clue. You know how kids can be, I was made fun of because of something I had no clue of. I detest bigotry!!

Think what you want. I can provide plenty of examples. Plenty. Just ask.

I can and have done so as well. When your a child and the folks at your local church call you "white trash" and ask where your parents are, that to me is different. I wouldn't call that confirmation bias, I'd call that plan old BIGOTRY. I don't deal in alt-facts I deal in reality. Over the years I've become pretty good at sorting folks out, you know the fakes from the real folks. I have several atheist friends, whom would give me the shirt off their back if I needed it, not one christian friend who would do that unless i was a member of their little club and paid my dues monthly. So I've come up with my on meaning of the word "believer" as they use it.

• They believe in Christ, that he died for our sins.
• They believe if you don't believe as they do, you are wrong and damned to Hell.
• They believe their way is the only way and that the Bible is error free.
• They believe they are better than anyone who does not follow their doctrine.
• They believe if they quote you enough scripture you will see things their way.

 

[Reggie Miller II]

Oh yes of coarse I agree

Yes Sir I have known that all of my life. However I have encountered many folks that feel and behave just as I have described. My favorite is "Have you been saved? I have." I was asked that as a child, I said "Saved from what?" I had no clue. You know how kids can be, I was made fun of because of something I had no clue of. I detest bigotry!!

I can and have done so as well. When your a child and the folks at your local church call you "white trash" and ask where your parents are, that to me is different. I wouldn't call that confirmation bias, I'd call that plan old BIGOTRY. I don't deal in alt-facts I deal in reality. Over the years I've become pretty good at sorting folks out, you know the fakes from the real folks. I have several atheist friends, whom would give me the shirt off their back if I needed it, not one christian friend who would do that unless i was a member of their little club and paid my dues monthly. So I've come up with my on meaning of the word "believer" as they use it.

• They believe in Christ, that he died for our sins.
• They believe if you don't believe as they do, you are wrong and damned to Hell.
• They believe their way is the only way and that the Bible is error free.
• They believe they are better than anyone who does not follow their doctrine.
• They believe if they quote you enough scripture you will see things their way.

Just Wondering, I agree with you. This particular church sounds more like the Pharisees of Jesus' day in much of what you say. I feel sure I wouldn't want to go there and they probably scare more people away than they realize.

 

[viole]

Several years ago I dated a Fundamentalist Christian woman who sang the praises of her church an pastor and how good ...... on and on. I went sometimes with her and her kids, not all the time. This was a large Bible Church in Arlington Texas. I've always been a believer in the Golden Rule, and one of the assistant pastor did a 2-3 part talk about it. I won't go into the details of what he said, we all should know the Golden Rule here.

The guy did a really good job of covering the material and presenting it. The last sentence in his talk was " Do all these thing as long as the person is a believer". What? I felt like standing up in front of the congregation and calling him out, a believer what the Hell is that.

So my question is simple. I know there are folks here that know the Bible a lot better than I. So I ask is this true? To me he said abide by the Golden Rule as long as that person you're dealing with is a believer is Christ, if not then all bets are off and the golden rule does not apply? Help me out here folks I'm confused. My atheist parents beat the Golden Rule into my head. I never heard of this before, sounds a lot like religious bigotry to me.

Just Wondering

Does the golden rule have general validity?

It depends. For instance, the formulation " treat the others like you would like to be treated" does not work so well with masochists.

Ciao

- viole

 

[JustWondering2]

Does the golden rule have general validity?

It depends. For instance, the formulation " treat the others like you would like to be treated" does not work so well with masochists.

Ciao

- viole

Thanks! You made an excellent point there. I don't know any masochists so I wouldn't know how they would want to be treated. But I don't think I've ever met someone who liked being treated badly. I've met a lot of people in 64 years, just don't recall any that liked being treated badly. Maybe I'm weird?

 

[JustWondering2]

Thanks! You made an excellent point there. I don't know any masochists so I wouldn't know how they would want to be treated. But I don't think I've ever met someone who liked being treated badly. I've met a lot of people in 64 years, just don't recall any that liked being treated badly. Maybe I'm weird?

But I've always liked your post.

 

[JustWondering2]

This does not at all correspond to my experience, and this experience has been fairly extensive. I suspect that either (a) your social context is atypical or (b) you see what you want to see and that your posts are excessively influenced by confirmation bias. and that this post reflects little more than low grade Christian-bashing.

This is not "low grade Christian-bashing" as you say Jay, this is what I personally have experienced. Is it atypical, I don't know. OBTW I have experienced similar behavior in other churches (denominations) as well. To me church seem much more like a country club atmosphere, with rules to keep out the folks that don't conform to their ideology.

 

[rusra02]

You're right. "All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must do to them. This, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean." (Matthew 7:12) Jesus said to even love your enemies. (Matthew 5:43,44)

 

[Akivah]

The guy did a really good job of covering the material and presenting it. The last sentence in his talk was " Do all these thing as long as the person is a believer". What? I felt like standing up in front of the congregation and calling him out, a believer what the Hell is that.

They probably also believe that only their believers can get to Heaven. If so, they might reason that there's no need to be nice to all the people (i.e. non-believers) that are going to hell.