The couple that allowed underage drinking.

[Circle_One]

From what I have observed of most of the teenagers in my life, they cave into peer pressure. The kids who had minds of their own until 15 suddenly followed the crowd.

And who are those kids following? And those kids? And those kids? Somewhere down the line there must be kids who have their own minds and are capable of making their own decisions, no? It just bugs me because growing up, my parents always tried to play the "My child's an angel, someone must have pressured her" card when in fact I never succombed to peer pressure, anything I did was of my own accord, but my parents refused to see that because they didn't believe their "angel" was capable of make some bad decisions on her own and I think a lot of parents do that because they refuse to let go of their angelic children and believe that they too are completely capable of making their own decisions.

They are all living happily without alcohol.

I'm not saying they aren't living happily without alcohol, what I'm saying is, if they want to try alcohol, there isn't much, short of locking them in the house until they are legal, that you can do to make sure they aren't or won't try it. If there is a will there is a way. And no matter how much teaching and explaining you try to do with stop that child from drinking if he/she really wants to try it.

 

[painted wolf]

I'm really curious what the 'magical' point where someone is responcible happins....
In the USA you drive a 2 ton potential death machine at 16, you can sign up to die for your country at 18 but you arn't mature enough to have a legal beer untill 21?

does this really make any sence?

I'm not a big alchohol drinker, I didn't have my first drink untill I was 22, but I have had friends who had thier first drinks, under adult supervision while 12 and are also not big drinkers. They got the mystery of the 'forbidden fruit' taken from them and knew that alchohol wasn't as 'cool' as everyone who didn't have that experience thought it was.

I don't think that throwing underage parties and letting everyones kids get drunk is a good idea, but I do think that it is the parents perogitive to teach thier kids about alchahol at an age they think is appropriate. Better than letting them stumble on it themselves unprepared. IMHO

wa:do

 

[Rex]

I could argue that it's weak and circular to teach your children to cave in to peer pressure, to have no respect for their bodies or laws. Is it unheard of to teach them how to live without alcohol? I teach my family how to live without alcohol.

How is that teaching them to cave to peer pressure? And it's been proven that a glass of wine a day cuts down on the risk of heart attacks. And no it is not unheard of but those are your beliefs, teaching all beliefs and then letting them decide would be much beneficial in my opinion. I mean that is what this forum is about.

The point is at some point they will encounter it, why not teach them the +/- with experience.

 

[Rex]

I'm really curious what the 'magical' point where someone is responcible happins....
In the USA you drive a 2 ton potential death machine at 16, you can sign up to die for your country at 18 but you arn't mature enough to have a legal beer untill 21?

does this really make any sence?

I'm not a big alchohol drinker, I didn't have my first drink untill I was 22, but I have had friends who had thier first drinks, under adult supervision while 12 and are also not big drinkers. They got the mystery of the 'forbidden fruit' taken from them and knew that alchohol wasn't as 'cool' as everyone who didn't have that experience thought it was.

I don't think that throwing underage parties and letting everyones kids get drunk is a good idea, but I do think that it is the parents perogitive to teach thier kids about alchahol at an age they think is appropriate. Better than letting them stumble on it themselves unprepared. IMHO

wa:do

PW I totally agree with you. Great points made!

 

[w00t]

The legal age for being able to buy a drink in the UK is 18, but you are permitted to give your children table wine in your own home from the age of five (not that many folk would normally give wine to a kid that young).

Teaching kids sensible drinking habits is surely a good thing. Not permitting alcohol until they are 18 will make it seem all the more attractive. Our children were allowed to have half a glass of wine with a meal, on special occasions, from the age of twelve. Our eldest daughter, never liked the taste of alcohol and is TT ( a bit difficult as she has to do the sacrament as an Anglican Priest)

If you make alcohol a big deal then kids will go out and drink the stuff anyway, in my experience.

 

[Lightkeeper]

How is that teaching them to cave to peer pressure? And it's been proven that a glass of wine a day cuts down on the risk of heart attacks. And no it is not unheard of but those are your beliefs, teaching all beliefs and then letting them decide would be much beneficial in my opinion. I mean that is what this forum is about.

The point is at some point they will encounter it, why not teach them the +/- with experience.

The studies of a glass a wine a day was done on adults, not children.
There are many articles on the internet about the dangers of alcohol on children's bodies.
http://www.alcoholfreechildren.org/en/audiences/youth.cfm
Here is one of them. I would think it would be the responsibility of a parent to teach their children all of the facts about alcohol and especially it's dangers.

 

[Lightkeeper]

The legal age for being able to buy a drink in the UK is 18, but you are permitted to give your children table wine in your own home from the age of five (not that many folk would normally give wine to a kid that young).

Teaching kids sensible drinking habits is surely a good thing. Not permitting alcohol until they are 18 will make it seem all the more attractive. Our children were allowed to have half a glass of wine with a meal, on special occasions, from the age of twelve. Our eldest daughter, never liked the taste of alcohol and is TT ( a bit difficult as she has to do the sacrament as an Anglican Priest)

If you make alcohol a big deal then kids will go out and drink the stuff anyway, in my experience.

Here is one of some articles about alcohol and the UK.
http://alcoholism.about.com/b/a/030521.htm

 

[Rex]

The studies of a glass a wine a day was done on adults, not children.

I'm afraid your wrong.

Here is just one report I found in about 2 seconds

Dr. Zimlichman and colleagues tracked 308 healthy European participants between 15 and 80 years of age with a body mass index below 30 kg/m2

http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/8525697700573E1885256D270055E2E3

 

[Rex]

There are many articles on the internet about the dangers of alcohol on children's bodies.

And I'm fairly certain I can find statistics on car related deaths vs. alcohol related deaths. And I'm fairly certain which has more deaths or dangers to children's bodies.

 

[Lightkeeper]

I'm afraid your wrong.

Here is just one report I found in about 2 seconds

http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/8525697700573E1885256D270055E2E3

I was referring to studies done by the American Heart Association. Europe has their own alcohol problems and if you refer to my UK link they think it's because the drinking age is so young.

 

[Lightkeeper]

And I'm fairly certain I can find statistics on car related deaths vs. alcohol related deaths. And I'm fairly certain which has more deaths or dangers to children's bodies.

How many of the car related deaths are due to alcohol?

 

[kiwimac]

I think the parents who did this were extremely sensible. Teenagers will drink whether or not parents like it. Better they should drink where there are adults to watch 'em and they have no possibility of getting their car keys.

Kiwimac

 

[FyreBrigidIce]

If parents are to allow their children to drink at home, there should be obvious limits. The access of the alcohol for one.

I have not reached the point where my kids want to try it. I was 2 the first time I got drunk and that was because I had access to everyones beer at a family reunion and I was able to crawl unseen to each can or glass.

I would rather know that my children are being supervised by sober adults than to do what I used to do and drink in the woods or a stone quarry far from a road so as not to get caught. I would also want the parents to check with me first and give me exact details about the evening before I would let my children drink at a friends house with parental supervision. If my children and their friends wanted to drink at home they would have to be at least 16 and I would make sure that I received permission from their parents for them to consume. I would also provide non-alcoholic drinks for any friends that wanted to attend but either chose not to drink or did not have permission. ALL KEYS WOULD BE HIDDEN and the kids would either spend the night or get a ride from a sober or designated driver.

I also would limit the amount of times my children would be allowed to attend an event like this. Definitely not every weekend.


FBI

 

[Melody]

Am I the only one with this thinking?

Yes, if a teen wants to drink, they'll find a way to do it. It doesn't mean we have to encourage it or tacitly approve by creating a safe place to drink and it certainly doesn't mean that we can make that decision for other parents.

With that logic, and knowing that if a teen wants to have sex, they'll find a way to do it, I should allow my teen to bring their boyfriend/girlfriend over and let them have sex in his/her bedroom because it's safer than parking in some deserted place.

We cannot make our children's lives "safe". What we can do is teach them appropriate behavior by modeling it for them and giving them a set of guidelines from the time they're born and then allow them to make their own mistakes. Yes, it may cost them their life....but if they survive, they may learn a valuable lesson. If we protect them against life's lessons, they grow up not learning that stupid mistakes bring disastrous consequences and continue making stupid decisions.

Personally, I think if parents monitored their teens behavior a bit more, this would not be such a big issue. My two oldest are 21 (in a month) and 19. They were permitted to go to their friends homes (after we met the parents and decided whether there was parental supervision or just a laissez-faire attitude) and their friends could come here. They were not permitted to wander the neighborhood or malls. When they went on dates, they were expected home by 11 p.m. all the way through their senior year. They were not allowed to date or doube date until they were 16.

We knew where our children were at all times. When they got their drivers license and borrowed the car, we knew exactly where they were going and if they deviated from that plan at all, the called to let us know where they were headed next. Since they were never allowed to disappear for hours on end, it discouraged the "well mom will never know" because mom most likely would.

We taught our children values and morals, gave them a set of rules to live by, gave them the independence to make *some* decisions and gave them a rope long enough to hang themselves if they abused that independence.

Seems to have worked. My two oldest have turned out to be pretty responsible adults and appear to be making good choices. Now....for the 12 year old.....

 

[Melody]

I don't think that throwing underage parties and letting everyones kids get drunk is a good idea, but I do think that it is the parents perogitive to teach thier kids about alchahol at an age they think is appropriate. Better than letting them stumble on it themselves unprepared. IMHO

wa:do

Our children are going to stumble on lots of things unprepared. It's just impossible to teach them everything. We would do better to teach them how to be responsible and make good choices.

My mother-in-law is french and so the children in her home were given watered down wine on special occasions. By the time they were teens, the wine was undiluted. I do the same in my home. My children do not look at alcohol as this forbidden fruit because it's always been a part of their lives. My husband has the rare glass of wine. I don't drink. My two oldest appear to have carried that into their adult lives. The oldest does not drink. The 19 year continues to have a glass of wine or beer on special occasions when we gather in our home.

 

[michel]

I couldn't find the news article but it's about the couple that held a new years party for their kids that included 50 kids and they supplied the alchohol, yet took away the keys so they couldn't drive.

It was on the O'Reilly Factor.

My email:

Am I the only one with this thinking?

Not at all; I have brought up my children with much the same attitude that my parents had towards me.
I remember smoking at home (whilst on holiday from the boarding school which was where I had learned to smoke); I used to smoke in the bathroom, and flush away the evidence, whilst using the fan to extract the smell of the cigarettes.
I remember feeling embarassed and foolish when I absent mindedly left a cigarette end lying around in the bathroom. My mother said"Look, if you really want to smoke, why hide it from us? - you might as well do it in front of us".
Of course, in that particular case, I was already a smoker, and so the exercise , well meant as it was, was wasted on me.
My parents took the same stance on alcohol, and offered me some to taste; obviously it was a Grown up thing to do, they seemed to enjoy it therefore it must be fun....etc.
I hated it; they gave me a very powerful tiny shot of a heavily distilled liquor called 'Goute'- the French for 'drop' because it needed to be sipped by the drop, literally.
No I don't think you are at all wrong Rex, you would merely take the 'naughty fun' out of an excercise that is going to happen anyway !!

 

[mrscardero]

I could argue that it's weak and circular to teach your children to cave in to peer pressure, to have no respect for their bodies or laws. Is it unheard of to teach them how to live without alcohol? I teach my family how to live without alcohol.

My step mother has been trying her hardest to make sure that my half sister (her biological daughter) is safe from drugs, alcohol and unsafe sex. My sister just turned 18 this month. My sister has been through everything under the sun. No matter what my step mom had said to her, she was always pushed away. My sister was going to do what ever she wanted. My sister did drugs, drink at friends houses with out the other parents knowing, she would have her friends come over to drink without my step mom knowing, unsafe sex. My step mom is a RN and she has been teaching my sister that all the things that she is doing to her body is not healthy. It will be determined by the child that wants to listen or do what they want to do. I didn't drink until I moved out my mom's house.

When I was 17, I moved out and moved in with my boyfriend and that's when I started drinking. I never drank outside of our apartment. He didn't allow me to drink outside of our home because I was underaged. I became a heavy drinker, but I drank heavy at home. I never went anywhere to get drunk. Then I turned 21. On my birthday my friends took me to bars to party. Had a few drinks cause it was free and I became sobber real quick. It was no fun for me anymore. I was so use to drinking at home that I didn't want to drink out in public. I felt more comfortable at home then out with other people who seemed like they were making fools of themselves with the loud screaming, fighting over a girl and not having a designated driver. I stopped drinking heavy and became the designated driver.

We allowed friends to come over to drink just as long as they did not drive and that they stayed over until the next day. We lost a lot of furniture in those days, but we would rather loose furniture then loose a friend.

 

[michel]

My younger Son is in France at the moment; (this is part of his modern languages degree)- he teaches English to French teenagers at a Lycee.
They serve wine for teachers and teachers assistants in the dining room for the whole school at lunch time.
Recently, he was invited to the next in line to Headmaster's house for Sunday Luch, which was apparently a very long meal(Lots of courses), and there was a bottle of wine for each course, to suit the food.
He has bought himself a car while over there, but he didnt want to use it on that Sunday, knowing he'd be offered wine. To his great surprise, the host offered to give him a guided tour of a local town (Original Michellin factory); they went off, with the guy being way over the top (Drink-wise); he didnt seem bothered at all, even when a car in front was stopped by a policeman for doing something that he shouldn't have.
James tells me that most young teenagers get used to a glass or two of wine at home, and they seem happy with that - it is rare to see binge drinking.
Unlike the UK which has one of the worst reputations.....................
Maybe that is the answer that Rex was onto; don't make a big thing about it, just one or two glasses a day to help prevent heart problems, rather than make it a 'Taboo' adults only ;'must have a go at it' mentality of the young.

 

[Valjean]

In the US teens view drinking as an exciting, rebellious act. They drink to get drunk. Drinking is associated with licentiousness and "partying."

In western Europe drinking is associated with... well... Dinner. People don't generally drink to get drunk, and children begin drinking watered wine with meals at a young age. They never learn to associate it with rebellion or deviance. The idea of drinking oneself into a stupor at a party wouldn't occur to them. Drinking in Europe is approached more casually and doesn't carry the social opprobrium it does in the states. This is not to say there isn't a drinking problem in western Europe, it just manifests itself differently than the epidemic binge drinking in the US.

 

[Ceridwen018]

The argument of, "Well, they're going to find a way to do it anyhow...we may as well let them." is pretty ridiculous, in my opinion. Arsonists are going to find ways to light people's houses on fire even though the practice is illegal--should we make arson legal because resistance is futile?

Kids most certainly will find a way to drink, even though its illegal, (I can attest that I certainly do), but for parents to condone such behavior can bring no good.

-They are teaching their kids that it is alright to break the law
-They are taking their child's responsibility upon themselves, (so much for 'teaching kids how to safely drink)
-Do the parents of the other kids attending these parties agree with this philosophy? Probably not the majority.

I can understand that by allowing kids to do some things takes away the 'adventure' of it, and therefore the kid is less likely to do it because the initial appeal has been taken away, but such thinking must be handled with great care, because it certainly doesn't work on everything. I have friends whos parents let them drink, and they milk it for all it's worth. Likewise, what about those kids whose parents don't know they're drinking? Such philosophy doesn't apply to all of them.

I dunno. I just think that there are some things parents should put their foot down on. Someday if I have kids, I won't be opposed to them perhaps having a glass of wine at dinner or on special occasions--kids should at least be exposed to and taught about alcohol--but I will never provide alcohol for them and their friends so that they can all get wasted, nor will I supply alcohol so that my kid can get wasted by himself.