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Featured The Christian Dark Ages of Europe

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by sooda, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The Christian Dark Ages of Europe - humanreligions.info
    www.humanreligions.info/the_dark_ages.html
    “ After the many long centuries of the dark ages, by the 18th century there was a growing movement in a Europe that was learning from its past mistakes: religion was increasingly being seen as positively harmful ...

    Excerpt:



    In Europe, the 'Dark Ages' refers to the barriers to human intellectual and moral development thrown up by a Christianity"

    ….. especially from the 4th century onwards. After the collapse of the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church stood as the most stable centre of European power and under its dominant influence science and scholarship was all but destroyed, replaced with Church dogma and doctrine, violently enforced6.

    Philosophical works were burned and lost, medicine and psychology set back hundreds of years2,7,8. In some areas of knowledge, over one thousand years of Human development was lost and education became controlled by the clergy and was often limited to them alone3,9. The entire Middle Ages was subject to Christianity"
    9.

    During this time, the Arab world carried the torch of knowledge and surpassed Europe in its understanding of philosophy, mathematics, and the sciences in general10,11. Europe slowly emerged from the dark age amidst continued widespread horror at the abuses of the Church, and a gradual trickle of intellectuals and early scientists emerged from the 12th century. Although they were mostly imprisoned and tortured by Christianity"

    continued at the link with extensive footnotes

    The Christian Dark Ages of Europe





















     
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  2. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    The notion of the "European Dark Ages" has been outdated for several decades now. No serious academic calls it that anymore. You must be referring to the Early and High Medieval Periods. Far from destroying philosophy and learning, the Catholic Church preserved, rediscovered, republished and improved upon the work of their forebears.
     
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  3. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    No particular reason to call it "Dark Ages"..

    Did you read the article or just jump in?

    The Catholic church was opposed to education, medicine and science… and was quite corrupt. They did need loot which is the reason for the Crusades, Inquisition, and Conquistadors.

    And then...

    The burning times. A frenzy of witch-hunts took place during this time in Europe, mostly in German-speaking parts, with an estimated 60,000 people put to death. In mainland Europe and Scotland they burned them, with the peak period between 1580 and 1662 often referred to as The Burning Times.
    BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | The burning times
    news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8334055.stm
     
  4. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

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    Not in Ireland.

    How the Irish Saved Civilization - Wikipedia
     
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  5. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Tail Wagger
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    I would rather have the common opinions of History professors and standard material rather than something controversial. Whoever this guy is quoted in the OP he's not speaking in a scholarly way. Footnotes are good, but I think his work can only be evaluated by a Historian. Then if it meets approval it will be adopted and established by the peerage.
     
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  7. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    You are deliberately wearing blinders. Muslim Spain was a golden age for Judaism.. They had garbage collection, street lights, piped in water for baths.

    They had colleges and universities .. and worked side by side to translate and preserve writings in science, medicine, navigation and astronomy.

    My ancestors in Europe still weren't bathing, but they were painting themselves blue.


    Golden age of Muslim Spain
    The Golden Age. The Muslim period in Spain is often described as a 'golden age' of learning where libraries, colleges, public baths were established and literature, poetry and architecture flourished. Both Muslims and non-Muslims made major contributions to this flowering of culture.
    BBC - Religions - Islam: Muslim Spain (711-1492)
    www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/spain_1.shtml
     
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  8. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Tail Wagger
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    No. I'm rejecting a lot of spin. The OP claims are extreme and go beyond what I am told in Western Civ class. Specifically it claims Christianity causes the dark ages. That's impossible. As I understand it Rome and its rejection of anything new causes the dark ages. Rome is afraid to learn, afraid of knowledge and of change. In particular it fears new technology. It freezes all medical knowledge and technical knowledge, so that no progress can be made. Machines are outlawed. Of course when Rome falls and is eaten and parceled out to war generals knowledge falls backwards with it, but it was never allowed to progress before that. Then comes feudalism. Christianity errs in many ways but doesn't throw up barriers to knowledge more than feudalism does. As Shiranui117 points out its the monasteries which preserve books though they are often raided and burned. What the OP claims is that Christianity keeps knowledge for itself, but seems more realistic is it fights to have any educated people at all. The nobility fear and loathe education, so its no simple trick. No general or feudal lord wants educated serfs.
     
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  9. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    And the reformation seems to be when the beginning of the end of 'the dark ages' ?
     
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  10. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Except for the witch burnings.
     
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  11. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Rome was spread too thin and had too many slaves when Christianity arrived.. Look at the barbarian hordes and the extent of the Roman Empire.


    Medieval Book Production and Monastic Life – Dartmouth ...
    https://sites.dartmouth.edu/.../2016/05/24/medieval-book-production-and-monastic-life
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Exactly, as it turned out that the burden of education fell upon the Church when the basic fabric of European society was collapsing:

    During the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, the many social and economic changes which came about in European society helped create an increased interest in education. Burgeoning bureaucratization within both civil and church administration created the need for educated men with abilities in the area of law (both canon and civil). The universities also began to teach medicine. In cities like Bologna, the study of rhetoric and Roman law was useful for both canonists and those who drafted legal documents in secular society. Such a school or studium during the twelfth century drew such people as the great medieval canon lawyer Gratian, Thomas Becket, and Pope Innocent III. It was at this time, also, that the universities slowly began to separate themselves from the firm control of the church. However, as late as 1200, the majority of students were still ecclesiastics. For example, at Bologna, no one could be made a medical doctor without permission of the archdeacon.

    Prior to the age of the studium or of university scholars (through the mid-eleventh century), monastic schools had been the most stable force in education...

    While, strictly speaking, scholasticism was the intellectual tradition of logical inquiry practiced in medieval schools, it has come to be understood as the attempt to use techniques of Aristotelian logical inquiry to link Christian revelation, church doctrine, and the mysteries of the natural universe in a deeper and more reasonable understanding of the Christian life. While the theoretical basis for scholasticism was introduced in the late Roman period by early philosopher-theologians like St. Augustine and Boethius, in the medieval period it appears in the ninth century in the work of John Scotus Eriugena who made the important distinction between reason and the revelation of sacred scripture. The scholastics drew upon the logical analysis of the Greek philosopher Aristotle, establishing a common method of inquiry by posing a question, following lines of thought presented by earlier authoritative scholars, and attempting to reason their way to a logical conclusion...

    Around the middle of the thirteenth century, the scholastic tradition reached its peak with the work of Albertus Magnus (1200–1280), St. Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274), and St. Bonaventure (1215–1274). The establishment of the universities with their faculties of theology contributed greatly to the development of this scholarship, as did the promulgation of Aristotle's concept that all human thought originates with the senses. Western interest in Aristotle and other classical texts was revived in part due to contact with Eastern Christian and Muslim ideas during the time of the Crusades. European scholars eagerly began to translate Greek and Arabic works into Latin...
    -- Medieval Education and the Role of the Church | Encyclopedia.com
     
  13. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    For those interested in this period of time, there is an excellent book called "A World Lit Only by Fire" by William Manchester. It's well worth reading.
     
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  14. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Monasteries didn't copy Greek texts... They had illiterate scribes copying scripture. In fact, they thought that copyists should be illiterate so they wouldn't contaminate the word.

    And then there's this bit of enlightenment which outsold the Bible. Its all about exterminating witches.

    The Malleus Maleficarum
    www.malleusmaleficarum.org
    The Malleus Maleficarum (Latin for “The Hammer of Witches”, or “Hexenhammer” in German) is one of the most famous medieval treatises on witches. It was written in 1486 by Heinrich Kramer and Jacob Sprenger, and was first published in Germany in 1487.
     
  15. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    The Chinese brought dark ages down on themselves
    about 500 yrs ago, and are only now in full recovery mode.
    Not that it was exactly religion as such that was involved.

    Islam did it a bit sooner, and is still stuck there.

    Try to imagine, if all great cultures had stayed the
    course centuries ago, instead sticking their heads
    of religion's ah, whatever.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    I never knew there was a Chinese Dark Ages.. Is this it?

    Chinese Dark Ages | History Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia
    History WikiChinese_Dark_Ages
    Chinese Dark Ages
    . Edit. Classic editor History Comments Share. Add Image. After the Han dynasty, China had entered an era of great disunity. Early during this time, China had split into three kingdoms, the Wei in the north, the Shu in the southwest and the Wu in the southeast. These kingdoms constantly fought each other for supreme control ...
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Based on other accounts I've read in the past, including from non-Catholic sources, btw, I'm going with the Encyclopedia accounts.

    The activity of the Church in education was an evolution, not a revolution, so using today's standards along those lines simply can be way too deceiving.

    Also, the first of the world's universities was the University of Paris, which started out mainly teaching clergy and theologians, and the first women in the world to become college educated were nuns.
     
  18. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    10 of the Oldest Universities in the World | Top Universities
    https://www.topuniversities.com/blog/10-oldest-universities-world
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Oldest college in the world
    [​IMG]
    Image: ancient-origins.net
    The oldest existing, and continually operating educational institution in the world is the University of Karueein, founded in 859 AD in Fez, Morocco. The University of Bologna, Italy, was founded in 1088 and is the oldest one in Europe.
    Oldest university | Guinness World Records
    www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/oldest-university



    University of Karueein was founded by Fatima al-Fihri in 859 with an associated madrasa, which subsequently became one of the leading spiritual and educational centers of the historic Muslim world.
     
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  20. leov

    leov Active Member
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