The Bible Tells Me So

[Left Coast]

The RCC believes itself to be the pillar and foundation of all truth. It recognizes itself as having the responsibility and authority to teach its followers the truth as they believe it.

It therefore does not believe itself to be in error in anything it teaches. They mock at the ones who think they can learn what the Bible is actually teaching by studying it. That's why they don't like Luther.

Most people simply trust in whatever denomination they belong. maybe they think they've made the right decision by joining a certain sect.

Most Protestant/non-Catholic Bible-believing Christians would agree with you, in my experience. So why can't even that group agree with each other, when they're all reading and studying the Bible? Why would God choose such an inconsistent method?

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Gospels were the next Revelation after that of Moses and both the Torah and Gospels spoke of future Revelations from God that would clarify such matters as well as bring new concepts, ideas and teachings relevant to the progress and evolution of man. We saw that some 600 years after Christ, Muhammad appeared. Whilst Christ’s teachings focused mainly on the individual, Muhammad progressed a step further towards that of the community and nationhood. Then in the 19th century, Baha’u’llah appeared with teachings for a world civilisation. So you can see that all these Revelations are as classes in one school through which humanity has evolved and progressed. Now is the age when, due to technical advances, a world civilisation is within reach both ideologically and practically.

Along the way, many with worldly ambitions have misused and corrupted religion for their own ends thus religion is renewed by God from age to age and it’s purity restored advancing humanity to the next stage in its ever unfolding evolution. Our next stage is likely to be world unity and world brotherhood, thus a widening of the circle to include all humanity.

 

[LightofTruth]

Then maybe you can tell me why Adam's fate is important.

Adam's fate is important because his fate is the fate of us all. We are all dust just like him and we all return to dust just as he did. The nature that Adam had at his creation is the same nature we all share. And it's the same nature that Jesus shared before his nature was changed by resurrection from the dead. Jesus dies no more. His nature is therefore now immortal....by resurrection from the dead...and not by something inherent in man.

 

[Left Coast]

I don't think so. Haven't heard of any.

Oh dear. See the many and varied disagreements on total depravity, original sin, and how salvation is applied to individuals.

I don't think so. Haven't heard of any.

Oh dear. See the many varied theories of the atonement that have existed throughout Christian history.

I don't think so. Haven't heard of any. - and my statement didn't include "faith alone" - just that he did.

Christian's vary widely on what, specifically, it means to "believe in Jesus" and whether simply believing in his death and resurrection are sufficient to save a person. Also huge fights over whether believing in Jesus is absolutely necessary (can non-Christians ever be saved?) or even if everyone will ultimately be saved.

yes, the message is simple... living it out is difficult.

Not just that living it out is hard, but what the message actually means for how Cheistians should behave has been hugely disputed between Christians over the ages.

 

[Left Coast]

If one believes God's spirit is guiding them, then what they come to understand of His doctrines, ought to be consist with the Scripture.

But then there are the ones who think God is directly teaching them his truths. You can't teach one like that anything.

Bible believing Christians always think their views are consistent with Scripture. Yet they constantly come to different conclusions. Again, why would God choose such an inconsistent method of delivering his teachings?

 

[LightofTruth]

Most Protestant/non-Catholic Bible-believing Christians would agree with you, in my experience. So why can't even that group agree with each other, when they're all reading and studying the Bible? Why would God choose such an inconsistent method?

Like I said, there are ideas which necessarily effect other ideas and understanding. And the one I think which effects understating the most is the doctrine of an inherent immortal soul in man.

I don't think it's God choosing an inconsistent method. it's seems more like man adding inconsistent ideas into the Scripture.

 

[LightofTruth]

Bible believing Christians always think their views are consistent with Scripture. Yet they constantly come to different conclusions. Again, why would God choose such an inconsistent method of delivering his teachings?

How can one think his view is consistent with scripture when his view is not even mentioned in Scripture?

There's a lot of that.

 

[firedragon]

So again, the question is, if the Bible's teachings are so clear, and we just need to read it and see what it says - why does following exactly that advice produce such disparate results?

1. Sociology of religion.
2. Interpretation methodologies.
3. Criticism approaches.

Applies to every single religion that we know of.

 

[columbus]

But most of it is black and white and every Christian agrees with it such as:

All of mankind sins, mankind cannot be good enough for uniting himself with God,

No, not all Christians believe that.

If I were to believe in Trinitarianism, I'd have to be a Universalist. Universal Salvation. The basic premise is quite clear. God is Almighty. God wants everyone to be Saved. Almighty God always gets what Almighty God wants. Therefore, Universal Salvation.

I realize that this contradicts most denominations teachings. Humans prefer(have Faith) to believe that God will smite those people that they don't like, if only in the afterlife. But that doesn't make any sense. Why bother then, when Almighty God can just fix whatever is wrong with them?

And starting out an explanation with "God says...", then quoting some human doesn't make it any more coherent.

Tom

 

[74x12]

The problem is that all Bible-believing Christians/Christian sects say they're guided by the Spirit and close to Jesus. So that evidently does not help give clarity to their understanding, because we still see the rampant disagreement, despite all of them believing that God has guided their understanding of the text. So, why would God use a method for communicating his ideas that results in so much confusion?

• Many things Christians argue about are not salvation issues but some Christians think they are. So they argue endlessly about pointless things.
• People truly believe their own dogma so completely; that they unreservedly say God guided them. But it's empty words unless God showed them Himself.
• Even the scribes and pharisees thought they were closest to God by obeying the scriptures. But Jesus pointed out that even though they obeyed every little law; yet their heart was far from God. That's for those who think they are "close to Jesus" because they "obey the scriptures".

I believe the reason God uses this method is because we are too proud and if we think we earned it or deserve it; then God can't exalt us as He wants to do. But if we are humble then He can exalt us in His love to the sky. Because love wants to lift us up and make us special. Because when you love someone you want the best things for them. Love doesn't even think "do they deserve it?" It only thinks that it will be the best thing to see them happy. But if God does that to proud people; then they'll end up like Satan who sinned because he was proud.

 

[LightofTruth]

The Bible speaks in plain language but is also uses similitudes throughout its pages. So it's not as clear as one would hope. But I don't think it leaves us with no ability to understand it. Even the book of Revelation, which is highly symbolic, says that a man is blessed if he understands its words.

All the understanding is hid within the pages of scripture. from beginning to end. We just have to seek it as we would gold.

 

[LightofTruth]

No, not all Christians believe that.

If I were to believe in Trinitarianism, I'd have to be a Universalist. Universal Salvation. The basic premise is quite clear. God is Almighty. God wants everyone to be Saved. Almighty God always gets what Almighty God wants. Therefore, Universal Salvation.

I realize that this contradicts most denominations teachings. Humans prefer(have Faith) to believe that God will smite those people that they don't like, if only in the afterlife. But that doesn't make any sense. Why bother then, when Almighty God can just fix whatever is wrong with them?

And starting out an explanation with "God says...", then quoting some human doesn't make it any more coherent.

Tom

When we say God is Almighty I think it means that what God says he will do, he is capable of doing.

I don't think God is saying he will save everybody because he is almighty, but just that he desires everybody to be saved.

The difference seems to be between what God says He will do and what He desires to happen.

 

[columbus]

When we say God is Almighty I think it means that what God says he will do, he is capable of doing.

Who is we? Your denomination?

And where did God say it? I'm not asking where the primitive folks who wrote the Bible said it. God, specifically.
Tom

 

[columbus]

I don't think God is saying he will save everybody because he is almighty, but just that he desires everybody to be saved.

This is rather the difference between Universalists and most Christians. They don't believe that humans can thwart Almighty God's Divine Will. Most Christian folks think we can.

Standard Christianity sounds irrational to me, this is one of the biggest reasons.
Tom

 

[Left Coast]

How can one think his view is consistent with scripture when his view is not even mentioned in Scripture?

There's a lot of that.

I would bet money that some Bible believing Christians would say that about your view(s).

 

[Left Coast]

• Many things Christians argue about are not salvation issues but some Christians think they are. So they argue endlessly about pointless things.

The many questions I mentioned in my OP are not peripheral theological issues, I'd say. They cover central issues of how Christians view God, are saved, and should behave. I'm also willing ti bet that there are Bible believing Christians who would argue that the things you think are "salvation issues" are not.

I believe the reason God uses this method is because we are too proud and if we think we earned it or deserve it; then God can't exalt us as He wants to do. But if we are humble then He can exalt us in His love to the sky. Because love wants to lift us up and make us special. Because when you love someone you want the best things for them. Love doesn't even think "do they deserve it?" It only thinks that it will be the best thing to see them happy. But if God does that to proud people; then they'll end up like Satan who sinned because he was proud.

I'm not sure I follow here. God wants us to be humble, so he uses a method of communication that results in mass confusion and disagreement?

 

[LightofTruth]

Who is we? Your denomination?

And where did God say it? I'm not asking where the primitive folks who wrote the Bible said it. God, specifically.
Tom

I don't belong to any denomination. The "we" are those who accept the Bible as inspired by God.

 

[Kenny]

And starting out an explanation with "God says...", then quoting some human doesn't make it any more coherent.

Tom

Yes... that has been the age old question. Reminds me when the serpent said "Did G-d really say?" (Paraphrased)

 

[columbus]

I don't belong to any denomination. The "we" are those who accept the Bible as inspired by God.

Like the Pope, Mormons, Lutherans, Jews(mostly), etc. etc....

You know, all that huge "we" who accept the Bible as inspired by God.
Tom

 

[Trailblazer]

So why would God provide such an unclear roadmap to understanding his teachings for us? God presumably knows that "mankind is mankind," but he took this approach anyway. Why, do you think?

God did not provide the Bible, men wrote it. I believe they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but that is not the same as if a Messenger of God had written it.

I believe that God has now provided a clear roadmap to the Bible, through the Writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha, thus clearing up much of the confusion.

Many Christians have misinterpreted much of the Bible because they did not have the key to unlock the meaning. Because of the way the Bible was written, misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the Bible has been a big problem since the very beginning. Everyone disagreed as to what the Bible meant and nobody understood much of what it meant, and that is why there are so many different sects of Christianity. However, it was prophesied by Daniel that the Book would be sealed up until the time of the end, meaning nobody would really understand it:

Daniel Chapter 12: 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The early Church fathers interpreted the Bible the way they did because they could not fully understand it.
Now Christians continue to interpret the Bible the way it has always been interpreted...

The "Book" was intended to be sealed up until the time of the end, until the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days came. The 2,300 years came in 1844 and the book was unsealed by Baha’u’llah. That math is explained in Some Answered Questions, 10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL.

We do not have to run to and fro anymore. Unsealing the Book means we can now understand the true meaning of the Bible. By reading the Baha’i Writings that explain the true meaning of the Bible, we can understand what much of the Bible means that could never be understood before.

I am not saying that Christians did not understand anything in the Bible, I am saying that they did not fully understand the Bible... As Daniel said, we will know more in the future, in 2300 years:

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased