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Featured The Bible Tells Me So

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Left Coast, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Left Coast

    Left Coast Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
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    Is Jesus God?
    Is God Unchanging?
    Is the Holy Spirit God?
    Is God a Trinity?
    What must a person believe to be saved?
    Is Baptism required for salvation?
    Can salvation be lost?
    What is the nature of communion/the Eucharist?
    Should we still keep the Sabbath? How?
    Can women be pastors?
    Can gay people be pastors?
    How should the church organization be structured?
    Which church is the true church?
    What will the End Times be like?
    Has Jesus come back already?
    Is divorce a sin? Always?
    Is abortion a sin? Always?
    Is war a sin? Always?

    I'm not looking for anyone's particular answers to any of these particular questions. I list them because they are a sampling of the myriad theological questions on which Christians disagree who profess to derive their beliefs directly the Bible.

    Now if the Christian God's intent was for us to strictly use the Bible to learn his teachings for us, why is it that on virtually every doctrinal question under the sun, Bible-believing Christians cannot agree?

    The standard answer of the Bible-believing Christian is to say that everyone else who disagrees with them aren't really following what the Bible teaches, they just claim they are. But that's exactly what all the other Bible-believing Christians say!

    So again, the question is, if the Bible's teachings are so clear, and we just need to read it and see what it says - why does following exactly that advice produce such disparate results?
     
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  2. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, it just seems like all this is trying to stratify a divine force that's supposed to be the master of truth, and therefore is allowed to make itself and the truth mutable. The opposing argument is: who are we to define god? We don't get discern what it is or what it can do. We aren't designed for that. We are just a bunch of dumb primates, aren't we? A couple weeks ago I lost one set of keys, but later found them by luck. I just spent the last few hours being anxious about stupid problems from yesterday. So this is a finite and limited state I find myself in, in the primate body, with the primate brain. And with this in mind, how am I expected to pinpoint the exact nuances of the trinity? Or know precisely what I should know or have faith in, in order to be 'saved,' whatever that means? It's like.. people don't even have their ducks in a row down here. Who are you going to trust then, to elaborate on all the divine platitudes
     
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  3. Cooky

    Cooky Landonius Maximus Prime

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    People tend to place a lot of focus on telling others how to interpret the scriptures rather than living-out their own faith.
     
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  4. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Because nobody can in practice be strictly in the strong sense objective and rational. That is no unique to Christians and apply to us all. If you want me to show proof and/or evidence for that, I can't according to your standard, because it is incoherently absurd. But that is the answer in practice to in the strong sense objective and rational answers: They are not, because reality is in a sense incoherently absurd as with strong objectivity and rationality. Now you deal with that differently than me and so in reverse and that is how it works.

    Imagine that objective reality was the Book. The only answers and all the answers are in it. The joke is that in a limited sense we can all interpret it differently. Your question is universal and not limited to Christians. And the answer is that apparently we can't overcome limited cognitive, cultural, moral and subjective relativism because that is how reality works when it comes to humans in general.

    Regards
    Mikkel
     
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  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    The answer to that is VERY simple. Christians all interpret the Bible differently.
    I have been telling them that for years, but they do not seem to understand what I mean, no matter how many times and how many ways I try to explain it to them.... They just say "but the Bible says"...

    Then I say, "the Bible does not SAY anything, because it does not talk. The Bible is just words on a page until you read it and interpret it...." But so far, not one Christian has understood what I mean.... :confused:
    I mean logically speaking, if "the Bible says" why doesn't the Bible SAY the same thing to everyone?

    You are correct that the standard answer of the Bible-believing Christian is to say that everyone else who disagrees with them aren't really following what the Bible teaches, so I often wonder why they never stop to wonder why, since they are all reading the SAME Bible.
     
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  6. Left Coast

    Left Coast Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
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    Indeed it is. Probably not the thread for you, mikkel. I appreciate your efforts, though.
     
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  7. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue "We know gravity by happenstance."

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    Except part of some faith is to share it with others. That is, if one believes what his faith teaches.
     
  8. Cooky

    Cooky Landonius Maximus Prime

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    I'm not sure where the bible teaches us that we need to monitor others to ensure they're interpreting the scriptures correctly.

    Sharing scriptures is one thing. Infighting over correct interpretations is another.
     
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  9. IAMinyou

    IAMinyou Active Member

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    Since the Bible cannot speak, you will never learn the deep secrets that I have within my eternal MIND today. You can only learn those secrets by listening to my MIND with a VOICE that speaks for our CREATOR.
     
  10. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    A local Christian Minister advised me her job is to assist her congregation to find a theology that works for them, not to tell others what to think. It is only natural that a collection of works from diverse authors thousands of years ago amidst very different times would inspire a vast array of perspectives.
     
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  11. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Wisdom is a pathway through endless paradox, and incomprehensible complexity. And every step along the way is different for each traveler. The "answers" for this one and the "answers" for that one are not the same "answers". And the "answers" for today will not be the "answers" for tomorrow. Wisdom cannot be achieved by knowing all the "answers", but by transcending the questions. Universal truth looks different to everyone: which is yet another paradox to rise above.
     
  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Maybe they're helping the faithful correct their faith. Wouldn't this be a noble enterprise? Surely the faithful would prefer their faith and practice be correct.

    Unless, of course, they value pleasing their neighbors over pleasing God....
     
  13. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    ... and best served without affected prose. :)
     
  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Who made up that rule?
     
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  15. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Because mankind is mankind. You can make a law and people like to twist things to their advantage. Also, some things are grey. Some things uses imagery and people think it is literal, somethings require a knowledge of Jewish thought and people interpret it in a Western thought process.

    But most of it is black and white and every Christian agrees with it such as:

    All of mankind sins, mankind cannot be good enough for uniting himself with God, God freely gave Jesus to atone for our sins, Jesus freely gave his life as he took mankind sins, he died for our sins, paid for our sins and resurrected destroying the power of sin, death and the grave. All who believe in Jesus will not perish but have everlasting life.

    And love God and love your neighbor as yourself
     
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  16. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    There is no 'Christian' God.
     
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  17. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    It's what happens when the teaching authority of the Church is denied. Every semi-literate person and his poodle reads their pet theological ideas into the text and the result is the predictable chaos that has shattered Protestant Christianity (in particular) into hundreds upon hundreds of bickering camps. This may come across as elitist, but most people are not qualified to expound on what Scripture means. And I count myself among them. That's why I submit to a tradition and a teaching authority.
     
    #17 Musing Bassist, Sep 26, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  18. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Most people don't entertain the notion that they are interpreting the writing, and could possibly be wrong. It's just arrogance. And its amazingly common.

    I find it even more arrogant of Christian fundamentalism to simply exclude others as "fake Christians" or non-Christians entirely simply because they don't share the same interpretation of Scripture. The most obvious of this is their belief that Catholicism is not Christian, but they are condemning even of the mainline Protestant churches as well.
     
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  19. Left Coast

    Left Coast Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
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    Even infants? Huge fight among Christians about original sin and what happens to babies who die, or die without baptism.

    But wide disagreement about how that uniting actually happens, and how good/bad humans actually are.

    I'm surprised you'd list that one Ken. What the heck the atonement even is is a huge fight among Bible-believing Christians.

    Huge fights over how Jesus' death and resurrection "destroys the power of sin, death, and the grave." Even huger fights about what "belief in Jesus" means and whether faith alone guarantees us everlasting life.

    A lovely platitude, but wide disagreement when the rubber meets the road regarding how Christians should actually behave.

    So no Ken, unfortunately most of the Bible isn't "black and white" from where I'm sitting. Christians are taught to think that way by having their version of Christianity's interpretations read constantly into the text so it seems clear as day to them. But as we see when we look around, it's actually not so clear.

    So why would God provide such an unclear roadmap to understanding his teachings for us? God presumably knows that "mankind is mankind," but he took this approach anyway. Why, do you think?
     
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  20. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    The teaching of the Bible (like other things) is such that it is necessary to correctly understand one idea in order to avoid wrong conclusions about other ideas.
    It's like beginning with a faulty premise.

    For example, if the idea that man was created with an immortal soul is assumed true then that might effect what he understands about hell.
    If a persons immortal soul leaves the body when the body dies, where does "he" go?

    Do you see what I mean. What you understand about one thing will affect your conclusions about other things.

    So, I think it's important to begin with a proper understanding.

    1) All men are mortal.
    2) Socrates is a man.
    3) Socrates is mortal

    If all men are not mortal, then the premise (1) is incorrect.
    If the soul of man is the actual man, and the soul is immortal, then the premise is wrong.
     
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