The Bible Tells Me So

[Cooky]

Maybe they're helping the faithful correct their faith. Wouldn't this be a noble enterprise? Surely the faithful would prefer their faith and practice be correct.

Unless, of course, they value pleasing their neighbors over pleasing God....

I don't think so. No.

 

[Left Coast]

The teaching of the Bible (like other things) is such that it is necessary to correctly understand one idea in order to avoid wrong conclusions about other ideas.
It's like beginning with a faulty premise.

For example, if the idea that man was created with an immortal soul is assumed true then that might effect what he understands about hell.
If a persons immortal soul leaves the body when the body dies, where does "he" go?

Do you see what I mean. What you understand about one thing will affect your conclusions about other things.

So, I think it's important to begin with a proper understanding.

1) All men are mortal.
2) Socrates is a man.
3) Socrates is mortal

If all men are not mortal, then the premise (1) is incorrect.
If the soul of man is the actual man, and the soul is immortal, then the premise is wrong.

I do think I understand your point. So what's the first premise you think is necessary to understanding the rest of the Bible? And more importantly, why do so many Bible-believing Christians apparently not believe it, if it's derived from the Bible alone?

 

[LightofTruth]

I do think I understand your point. So what's the first premise you think is necessary to understanding the rest of the Bible? And more importantly, why do so many Bible-believing Christians apparently not believe it, if it's derived from the Bible alone?

I used the immortal soul idea because I think it's the mother of all lies. So many conclusions about other ideas stem from accepting the immortal soul idea. If the immortal soul idea is rejected then it necessarily causes conclusions about other ideas to greatly differ. That's why there is so much confusion and differences amongst Christian sects.

The Bible never mentions anything about man having an immortal soul. You will not find the words "immortal soul" or "never dying soul" anywhere in the Bible. The Bible, right from the start, says that man became a living soul. So, why does mainstream Christianity say man was given an immortal soul at his creation?

They start from a faulty idea and then every other idea becomes necessarily effected by that idea.

 

[Pipiripi]

Is Jesus God?
Is God Unchanging?
Is the Holy Spirit God?
Is God a Trinity?
What must a person believe to be saved?
Is Baptism required for salvation?
Can salvation be lost?
What is the nature of communion/the Eucharist?
Should we still keep the Sabbath? How?
Can women be pastors?
Can gay people be pastors?
How should the church organization be structured?
Which church is the true church?
What will the End Times be like?
Has Jesus come back already?
Is divorce a sin? Always?
Is abortion a sin? Always?
Is war a sin? Always?

I'm not looking for anyone's particular answers to any of these particular questions. I list them because they are a sampling of the myriad theological questions on which Christians disagree who profess to derive their beliefs directly the Bible.

Now if the Christian God's intent was for us to strictly use the Bible to learn his teachings for us, why is it that on virtually every doctrinal question under the sun, Bible-believing Christians cannot agree?

The standard answer of the Bible-believing Christian is to say that everyone else who disagrees with them aren't really following what the Bible teaches, they just claim they are. But that's exactly what all the other Bible-believing Christians say!

So again, the question is, if the Bible's teachings are so clear, and we just need to read it and see what it says - why does following exactly that advice produce such disparate results?

 

[LightofTruth]

God told Adam, "from dust YOU are and to dust YOU shall return".

Man tells man, "Adam's body died, but Adam himself went to be with God".

So, it depends on who you want to believe.

 

[Pipiripi]

It is because by tradition the Rome's Catholic Church was about 1260 years have dominated their false teachings by killing the Bible followers of God. And slowly God was uniting His true believers. But this church like the Bible teaches will come to his power again. And we will see if we are alive by 2030, their agenda to completely have their New One World Order and and One Religion.
This battle is a battle between God and Satan. And we humans are involved into it, because of disobeying of God. We all have to choose which side of the battle we are. I have take my choice. Ephesians 6:10-18. What about you!

 

[Cooky]

God told Adam, "from dust YOU are and to dust YOU shall return".

Man tells man, "Adam's body died, but Adam himself went to be with God".

So, it depends on who you want to believe.

That seems like really useless information.

 

[Pipiripi]

God told Adam, "from dust YOU are and to dust YOU shall return".

Man tells man, "Adam's body died, but Adam himself went to be with God".

So, it depends on who you want to believe.

God or man!

 

[Cooky]

It is because by tradition the Rome's Catholic Church was about 1260 years have dominated their false teachings by killing the Bible followers of God. And slowly God was uniting His true believers. But this church like the Bible teaches will come to his power again. And we will see if we are alive by 2030, their agenda to completely have their New One World Order and and One Religion.
This battle is a battle between God and Satan. And we humans are involved into it, because of disobeying of God. We all have to choose which side of the battle we are. I have take my choice. Ephesians 6:10-18. What about you!

Yeah right.

 

[74x12]

I'm not looking for anyone's particular answers to any of these particular questions. I list them because they are a sampling of the myriad theological questions on which Christians disagree who profess to derive their beliefs directly the Bible.

Now if the Christian God's intent was for us to strictly use the Bible to learn his teachings for us, why is it that on virtually every doctrinal question under the sun, Bible-believing Christians cannot agree?

It's the wild west of religion. It's the modern era of the book of Judges. "Every man did what was right in his own eyes". But in the book of Judges God would raise up "judges" to deliver Israel. God is doing things now to save people even though it seems like confusion to the rest of the world. Jesus said He knows His own sheep and they know Him. That's all there is to it. Because the world is full of madness and conflicting voices.

The standard answer of the Bible-believing Christian is to say that everyone else who disagrees with them aren't really following what the Bible teaches, they just claim they are. But that's exactly what all the other Bible-believing Christians say!

They need to follow the Spirit not just read a book. The book is there to help you. The holy Spirit is sent to save you.

So again, the question is, if the Bible's teachings are so clear, and we just need to read it and see what it says - why does following exactly that advice produce such disparate results?

It's not clear and without God's help you won't get it. Jesus taught if you hear the Word and don't understand then the wicked one comes and steals the seed out of your heart before it can grow. But He always explained the parables to His closest disciples so they would understand. If people want to understand the Bible they need to be close to Jesus.

 

[LightofTruth]

I do think I understand your point. So what's the first premise you think is necessary to understanding the rest of the Bible? And more importantly, why do so many Bible-believing Christians apparently not believe it, if it's derived from the Bible alone?

Let's say that man was actually created from the ground and when he dies he actually returns to the ground as God says.

1) What then happens to the idea that man is an immortal soul inside a body of flesh?

It must necessarily be rejected because man dies.

2) If man does actually die, what happens to the idea that he goes somewhere alive after he dies?

That's an absurdity and contradiction because man can't actually be dead and be alive at the same time.

3) What is the meaning of death if all man has a soul that never dies?

Death must necessarily mean something other than not being alive. Some therefore conclude that death does not mean not living but rather a separation from God.

See how it goes?

 

[exchemist]

Since the Bible cannot speak, you will never learn the deep secrets that I have within my eternal MIND today. You can only learn those secrets by listening to my MIND with a VOICE that speaks for our CREATOR.

On reflection, maybe you should put that green plastic bag back on. It would give the unwary more idea what to expect.

 

[Left Coast]

I used the immortal soul idea because I think it's the mother of all lies. So many conclusions about other ideas stem from accepting the immortal soul idea. If the immortal soul idea is rejected then it necessarily causes conclusions about other ideas to greatly differ. That's why there is so much confusion and differences amongst Christian sects.

The Bible never mentions anything about man having an immortal soul. You will not find the words "immortal soul" or "never dying soul" anywhere in the Bible. The Bible, right from the start, says that man became a living soul. So, why does mainstream Christianity say man was given an immortal soul at his creation?

They start from a faulty idea and then every other idea becomes necessarily effected by that idea.

God told Adam, "from dust YOU are and to dust YOU shall return".

Man tells man, "Adam's body died, but Adam himself went to be with God".

So, it depends on who you want to believe.

Let's say that man was actually created from the ground and when he dies he actually returns to the ground as God says.

1) What then happens to the idea that man is an immortal soul inside a body of flesh?

It must necessarily be rejected because man dies.

2) If man does actually die, what happens to the idea that he goes somewhere alive after he dies?

That's an absurdity and contradiction because man can't actually be dead and be alive at the same time.

3) What is the meaning of death if all man has a soul that never dies?

Death must necessarily mean something other than not being alive. Some therefore conclude that death does not mean not living but rather a separation from God.

See how it goes?

I see what doctrine you think is central here, yes. But I didnt see an answer to the more important question:

"And more importantly, why do so many Bible-believing Christians not believe it, if it's derived from the Bible alone?"

 

[LightofTruth]

That seems like really useless information.

It not useless at all if you belong to a Christian sect that bases its beliefs on the Bible.

 

[Left Coast]

It's the wild west of religion. It's the modern era of the book of Judges. "Every man did what was right in his own eyes". But in the book of Judges God would raise up "judges" to deliver Israel. God is doing things now to save people even though it seems like confusion to the rest of the world. Jesus said He knows His own sheep and they know Him. That's all there is to it. Because the world is full of madness and conflicting voices.

They need to follow the Spirit not just read a book. The book is there to help you. The holy Spirit is sent to save you.

It's not clear and without God's help you won't get it. Jesus taught if you hear the Word and don't understand then the wicked one comes and steals the seed out of your heart before it can grow. But He always explained the parables to His closest disciples so they would understand. If people want to understand the Bible they need to be close to Jesus.

The problem is that all Bible-believing Christians/Christian sects say they're guided by the Spirit and close to Jesus. So that evidently does not help give clarity to their understanding, because we still see the rampant disagreement, despite all of them believing that God has guided their understanding of the text. So, why would God use a method for communicating his ideas that results in so much confusion?

 

[LightofTruth]

God or man!

If I believe the Bible to teach one thing and man can reasonably show that what I believe the Bible is teaching is false then I ought to reconsider what I had believed.

For example, I used to believe that God created the earth out of nothing according to Genesis 1:1. But man has shown that the earth is much older than the idea of creation out of nothing as is supposed by Gen. 1:1

So, taking another look, I see that God never says that he created the earth out of nothing in Gen 1:1. Rather, I see that the earth actually already existed in Gen 1:1, just not in the form we know it today.

However, some people want to hold the idea that Gen 1:1 is speaking of the earth being created out of nothing and therefore they conclude that the days of creation are not literal days but very long periods of time. i disagree.

Then there are still others who hold that Gen 1:1 is telling us that God created the earth out of nothing and yet the days are literal 6 days. So, they have a problem with science.

 

[LightofTruth]

I see what doctrine you think is central here, yes. But I didnt see an answer to the more important question:

"And more importantly, why do so many Bible-believing Christians not believe it, if it's derived from the Bible alone?"

The RCC believes itself to be the pillar and foundation of all truth. It recognizes itself as having the responsibility and authority to teach its followers the truth as they believe it.

It therefore does not believe itself to be in error in anything it teaches. They mock at the ones who think they can learn what the Bible is actually teaching by studying it. That's why they don't like Luther.

Most people simply trust in whatever denomination they belong. maybe they think they've made the right decision by joining a certain sect.

 

[Kenny]

Even infants? Huge fight among Christians about original sin and what happens to babies who die, or die without baptism.

True... true.

But wide disagreement about how that uniting actually happens, and how good/bad humans actually are.

I don't think so. Haven't heard of any.

I'm surprised you'd list that one Ken. What the heck the atonement even is is a huge fight among Bible-believing Christians.

I don't think so. Haven't heard of any.

Huge fights over how Jesus' death and resurrection "destroys the power of sin, death, and the grave." Even huger fights about what "belief in Jesus" means and whether faith alone guarantees us everlasting life.

I don't think so. Haven't heard of any. - and my statement didn't include "faith alone" - just that he did.

A lovely platitude, but wide disagreement when the rubber meets the road regarding how Christians should actually behave.

So no Ken, unfortunately most of the Bible isn't "black and white" from where I'm sitting. Christians are taught to think that way by having their version of Christianity's interpretations read constantly into the text so it seems clear as day to them. But as we see when we look around, it's actually not so clear.

So why would God provide such an unclear roadmap to understanding his teachings for us? God presumably knows that "mankind is mankind," but he took this approach anyway. Why, do you think?

yes, the message is simple... living it out is difficult.

 

[LightofTruth]

The problem is that all Bible-believing Christians/Christian sects say they're guided by the Spirit and close to Jesus. So that evidently does not help give clarity to their understanding, because we still see the rampant disagreement, despite all of them believing that God has guided their understanding of the text. So, why would God use a method for communicating his ideas that results in so much confusion?

If one believes God's spirit is guiding them, then what they come to understand of His doctrines, ought to be consist with the Scripture.

But then there are the ones who think God is directly teaching them his truths. You can't teach one like that anything.

 

[Cooky]

It not useless at all if you belong to a Christian sect that bases its beliefs on the Bible.

Then maybe you can tell me why Adam's fate is important.